'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains why

Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Blackdog said:

I understand your perspective this however does not mean I agree. It also does not make it correct or even remotely true. I mean you are the one that said if it does not hurt anything it's OK to abuse people. You compared Jews to white south Africans and the blacks to Nazi's.

No it has nothing at all to do with anything other than your position is completely asinine.

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You seem to be suffering from a bit of amnesia.

First off. You were the one who wanted to talk about the jews in Germany in comparison to the situation in South Africa. Not I. I just obliged you. Once I obliged to your request you denied it... on account that you didn't like it because you offered no justification what so ever.

You did not present you "view" on the matter. This has been a one way streak of me accommodating to whatever you wanted to discuss and every time you looked at something and didn't like it, decided to just condemn it on no evidence. Pray, do justify anything you say. Because we had 2-3 discussions and I am starting to think you are in the habit of never accounting for your words or your position.

Also, I never said that it was ok to abuse people. I said that the circumstances are different when there is abuse on people with no rights and abuse on people with rights. Also, lets not forget the time difference.

Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Rainman05 said:

You seem to be suffering from a bit of amnesia.

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I am not suffering from anything except your own silliness.

Rainman05 said:

First off. You were the one who wanted to talk about the jews in Germany in comparison to the situation in South Africa.

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No I did not. I used it as an example of how your statement does not ring true. You then tried to turn it into some kind of debate.

So sorry, go back and read it.

Rainman05 said:

Not I. I just obliged you. Once I obliged to your request you denied it... on account that you didn't like it because you offered no justification what so ever.

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Already debunked above.

Rainman05 said:

You did not present you "view" on the matter. This has been a one way streak of me accommodating to whatever you wanted to discuss and every time you looked at something and didn't like it, decided to just condemn it on no evidence. Pray, do justify anything you say. Because we had 2-3 discussions and I am starting to think you are in the habit of never accounting for your words or your position.

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No. It has been you trying to take things out of context and respond to irrelevant pieces instead of my point. Nothing but mental masturbation at best.

Rainman05 said:

Also, I never said that it was ok to abuse people.

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About what happens when people have no rights, and thus, there is nothing to legally break by abusing those people... and when people DO have rights and how breaking them it is illegal and condemnable... yet nobody is condemned or prosecuted.

So you are saying somehow having nothing to legally break makes it somehow better? Or less of an injustice? I mean really what else does that statement mean?

Rainman05 said:

I said that the circumstances are different when there is abuse on people with no rights and abuse on people with rights. Also, lets not forget the time difference.

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This is exactly what I mean. I understand perfectly well what you just said. It makes it no less one sided bull****.

Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Blackdog said:

I am not suffering from anything except your own silliness.

pas.

No I did not. I used it as an example of how your statement does not ring true. You then tried to turn it into some kind of debate.

So sorry, go back and read it.

pas

Already debunked above.

nope, pas.

No. It has been you trying to take things out of context and respond to irrelevant pieces instead of my point. Nothing but mental masturbation at best.

sure.. pas.

About what happens when people have no rights, and thus, there is nothing to legally break by abusing those people... and when people DO have rights and how breaking them it is illegal and condemnable... yet nobody is condemned or prosecuted.

So you are saying somehow having nothing to legally break makes it somehow better? Or less of an injustice? I mean really what else does that statement mean?

Finally something I can reply to in your whole comment.

This is exactly what I mean. I understand perfectly well what you just said. It makes it no less one sided bull****.

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I am strictly saying that if you have 2 individuals. Mark and Jones.

Mark has no rights what so ever and society has no obligation to respect him even as a human being. Treat him like durt. Mark still gets hurt and abused.

Now Jones. Jones has rights and the society he lives in is obligated to abide by those rights and protect them, for if those rights are broken, society has to do everything in can to exact punishment on those who abused and hurt Jones because otherwise, you don't have a society that is ruled by law and you descent into a very bad society. Jones gets hurt and abused in the same way that Mark is. But the difference is that LAWS are also broken. You break the law by doing so. And that makes it worse.

But you can make it even WORSE. You can make it so that the people who are put in place to uphold the law and to protect Jones' rights don't do their job they in fact empower the people who do abuse. They empower villains. And that is bad for all society. You can make it even WORSE if the majority of people who are in the same country as Jones is in, and who have the same rights as Jones does, condone and allow abuse to happen against Jones because of their vindictive feelings.

Got it now? I am not discussing that the wrong done to an individual who has no rights is less than the wrong done to an individual with rights if the same abuse is done, on a personal level. I am just arguing that something else gets abused in the process that is supposed to protect individuals with rights from abuse. And that is the worst part.

Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Rainman05 said:

I am strictly saying that if you have 2 individuals. Mark and Jones.

Mark has no rights what so ever and society has no obligation to respect him even as a human being. Treat him like durt. Mark still gets hurt and abused.

Now Jones. Jones has rights and the society he lives in is obligated to abide by those rights and protect them, for if those rights are broken, society has to do everything in can to exact punishment on those who abused and hurt Jones because otherwise, you don't have a society that is ruled by law and you descent into a very bad society. Jones gets hurt and abused in the same way that Mark is. But the difference is that LAWS are also broken. You break the law by doing so. And that makes it worse.

But you can make it even WORSE. You can make it so that the people who are put in place to uphold the law and to protect Jones' rights don't do their job they in fact empower the people who do abuse. They empower villains. And that is bad for all society. You can make it even WORSE if the majority of people who are in the same country as Jones is in, and who have the same rights as Jones does, condone and allow abuse to happen against Jones because of their vindictive feelings.

Got it now? I am not discussing that the wrong done to an individual who has no rights is less than the wrong done to an individual with rights if the same abuse is done, on a personal level. I am just arguing that something else gets abused in the process that is supposed to protect individuals with rights from abuse. And that is the worst part.

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That is not the worst part. Rights and laws are just crap we make up to govern ourselves in large groups, that's it. Your argument again does not even need refuting because it is nonsense. Injustice is injustice no matter how you would try and make either one backed by mite or one back by law make a damn bit of difference. If they have protected rights it's so much worse, what a ****ing moronic statement. And Jesus wept.

Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Blackdog said:

That is not the worst part. Rights and laws are just crap we make up to govern ourselves in large groups, that's it. Your argument again does not even need refuting because it is nonsense. Injustice is injustice no matter how you would try and make either one backed by mite or one back by law make a damn bit of difference. If they have protected rights it's so much worse, what a ****ing moronic statement. And Jesus wept.

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I see now. Your attitude towards the importance of the law is what makes this discussion futile.

What the hell do you think "equality" is? The closest humanity has ever come to equality is through a proper code of laws that everybody needs to abide by or pay the price. There is no other.

Furthermore, you cannot accept any situation where the black people are actually the abusers and the whites are the victims. Your world perspective disables you from ever accepting this reality.

Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

ashurbanipal said:

No, I am saying that the massive widespread crimes of the past, which were never sufficiently redressed, have ongoing effects today, even if they are not directly experienced. Furthermore, those effects are potent, and the ongoing inequality and racial attitudes in our society amply bear out this point.

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My mom is Jewish. Her heritage has arguable had it as bad as any minority group in history. None of this has been completely redressed by a federal authority, yet Jews are globally one of the wealthiest minority groups, have and have produced numerous nobel prizes and contributions to the human race.

Slavery is as bad of a crime against humanity that there is. I'm not defending it. But there is the argument, that African Americans who live here today are better off because of the forced immigration into the US then they would've been if they had stayed in Africa. I would also argue, that the plight of African Americans today, has much less to do with slavery, and a lot more to with Jim Crow. The two are related of course, but the latter is much more fresh in peoples minds, and reminds them of the former. But I'm not sure "more welfare" is necessarily the answer if all it does is increase racial tensions and discrimination.

Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Blackdog said:

Because it is fantasy nonsense. Nothing redeeming at all to discuss.

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That's a typical argument for someone with no rebuttal.

Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

ReformCollege said:

That's a typical argument for someone with no rebuttal.

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Or maybe his statements...

"About what happens when people have no rights, and thus, there is nothing to legally break by abusing those people... and when people DO have rights and how breaking them it is illegal and condemnable... yet nobody is condemned or prosecuted. - Rainman05

To which he follows up with the story of Mark and Jones...

"Mark has no rights what so ever and society has no obligation to respect him even as a human being. Treat him like durt. Mark still gets hurt and abused.

Now Jones. Jones has rights and the society he lives in is obligated to abide by those rights and protect them, for if those rights are broken, society has to do everything in can to exact punishment on those who abused and hurt Jones because otherwise, you don't have a society that is ruled by law and you descent into a very bad society. Jones gets hurt and abused in the same way that Mark is. But the difference is that LAWS are also broken. You break the law by doing so. And that makes it worse. - Rainman05

So how do you Mr "my mother is Jewish" respond to that?

Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Rainman05 said:

I see now. Your attitude towards the importance of the law is what makes this discussion futile.

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No. It's your "as long as no law is broken it's obviously not as bad" bull**** racist attitude that makes it futile. The poor downtrodden white man. :roll:

Rainman05 said:

What the hell do you think "equality" is? The closest humanity has ever come to equality is through a proper code of laws that everybody needs to abide by or pay the price. There is no other.

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This is true this how ever makes no ones suffering less important. Unless you are white I guess.

Rainman05 said:

Furthermore, you cannot accept any situation where the black people are actually the abusers and the whites are the victims. Your world perspective disables you from ever accepting this reality.

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Oh give me a break, that is a lame cop out and strawman at best. Please point out where I said anything even remotely close. I know you can't because I said more than 1 time this does not excuse the blacks actions at all. The perspective is nothing more than 1+1=2 which you try to say is 1+2=3 because a 2 is used it is obviously far more important.

More inept hogwash.

Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Blackdog said:

Or maybe his statements...

"About what happens when people have no rights, and thus, there is nothing to legally break by abusing those people... and when people DO have rights and how breaking them it is illegal and condemnable... yet nobody is condemned or prosecuted. - Rainman05

To which he follows up with the story of Mark and Jones...

"Mark has no rights what so ever and society has no obligation to respect him even as a human being. Treat him like durt. Mark still gets hurt and abused.

Now Jones. Jones has rights and the society he lives in is obligated to abide by those rights and protect them, for if those rights are broken, society has to do everything in can to exact punishment on those who abused and hurt Jones because otherwise, you don't have a society that is ruled by law and you descent into a very bad society. Jones gets hurt and abused in the same way that Mark is. But the difference is that LAWS are also broken. You break the law by doing so. And that makes it worse. - Rainman05

So how do you Mr "my mother is Jewish" respond to that?

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I agree with what he's basically saying. As long as its against the law, you can prosecute the abusers. If its not against the law you can't. But in a society like ours, if its not against the law, its probably a relational inequality, rather then an actual abuse of human rights.

But calling something ridiculous is not an argument.

Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

I decided I'm going to help you out and point out all of the fallacious arguments that you are making.

Blackdog said:

No. It's your "as long as no law is broken it's obviously not as bad" bull**** racist attitude that makes it futile. The poor downtrodden white man. :roll:

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ad hominem-abusive fallacy, appeal to race,

Blackdog said:

This is true this how ever makes no ones suffering less important.

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If our legal system is sound and thorough, and laws aren't being broken, then yes it does. Because in that case, their suffering is not due to a violation of their rights and they are being treated equally and fairly, and their suffering is due more to internal factors then external ones.

Blackdog said:

Unless you are white I guess.

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ad hominem, appeal to race

Blackdog said:

Oh give me a break, that is a lame cop out and strawman at best. Please point out where I said anything even remotely close. I know you can't because I said more than 1 time this does not excuse the blacks actions at all. The perspective is nothing more than 1+1=2 which you try to say is 1+2=3 because a 2 is used it is obviously far more important.

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Well 2 is worth twice as much as 1?
You just see our actions today having a greater influence on them then their actions. I disagree.

Blackdog said:

More inept hogwash.

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ad hominem- abusive fallacy

Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Blackdog said:

No. It's your "as long as no law is broken it's obviously not as bad" bull**** racist attitude that makes it futile. The poor downtrodden white man. :roll:



This is true this how ever makes no ones suffering less important. Unless you are white I guess.



Oh give me a break, that is a lame cop out and strawman at best. Please point out where I said anything even remotely close. I know you can't because I said more than 1 time this does not excuse the blacks actions at all. The perspective is nothing more than 1+1=2 which you try to say is 1+2=3 because a 2 is used it is obviously far more important.

More inept hogwash.

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You are impossible to deal with. Every phrase you spit out has something to do with the "white man". The white man this, the white man that. Everything has to come down to the white man and how bad it is. You are worse than those people who call white men devils.

You know what, you are illogical and unreasonable. I don't know if this is your constant way of being, but it is when you are discussing things that have any tangence with racial issues. You cannot take a step back and look at things objectively. all you can do is blame the white man.

Fine. Keep blaming white people for everything. I give up. I won't sink down to your level because then I'll lose... since you have more experience in being down in the intellectual sh*thole.

Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

ReformCollege said:

I agree with what he's basically saying. As long as its against the law, you can prosecute the abusers. If its not against the law you can't. But in a society like ours, if its not against the law, its probably a relational inequality, rather then an actual abuse of human rights.

But calling something ridiculous is not an argument.

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That's not what he is saying. He is saying if someone or some group is suffering an injustice, as long as it is not against the law, it's not as bad as injustice that is against the law.

That is what he is saying.

Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Rainman05 said:

You are impossible to deal with. Every phrase you spit out has something to do with the "white man". The white man this, the white man that. Everything has to come down to the white man and how bad it is. You are worse than those people who call white men devils.

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What? I think your racism is showing is all.

Rainman05 said:

You know what, you are illogical and unreasonable. I don't know if this is your constant way of being, but it is when you are discussing things that have any tangence with racial issues. You cannot take a step back and look at things objectively. all you can do is blame the white man.

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I have not blamed the "white man" for anything. At most I have made fun of your "down trodden white man" shtick. Now that your argument about it "not being as bad" when it's not against the law has been exposed, you are projecting as you really have no argument against my statement about perspective.

Rainman05 said:

Fine. Keep blaming white people for everything. I give up. I won't sink down to your level because then I'll lose... since you have more experience in being down in the intellectual sh*thole.

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I have not blamed the white man for anything. I will however call out your "poor white man" racist garbage anytime and anyplace.

Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Blackdog said:

What? I think your racism is showing is all.



I have not blamed the "white man" for anything. At most I have made fun of your "down trodden white man" shtick. Now that your argument about it "not being as bad" when it's not against the law has been exposed, you are projecting as you really have no argument against my statement about perspective.



I have not blamed the white man for anything. I will however call out your "poor white man" racist garbage anytime and anyplace.

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Yeah,

Well, bye. I won't lower myself to the aforementioned pit.

Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

ReformCollege said:

I decided I'm going to help you out and point out all of the fallacious arguments that you are making.

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Obviously I need no help from the likes of you.

ReformCollege said:

ad hominem-abusive fallacy, appeal to race,

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"The poor down trodden white man" is not an appeal to race. It would be more of an appeal to ridicule.

ReformCollege said:

If our legal system is sound and thorough, and laws aren't being broken, then yes it does. Because in that case, their suffering is not due to a violation of their rights and they are being treated equally and fairly, and their suffering is due more to internal factors then external ones.

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#1 We are not talking about "our legal system" we are talking about South Africa.
#2 So black south african's who suffered under apartheid for how long? Were suffering do to "internal factors" rather than apartheid or colonialism????
#3 Your argument is racist and preposterous.

ReformCollege said:

ad hominem, appeal to race

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Ridicule, get it right.

ReformCollege said:

Well 2 is worth twice as much as 1?
You just see our actions today having a greater influence on them then their actions. I disagree.

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No. I see that you would rather blame anything other than the true cause.

ReformCollege said:

ad hominem- abusive fallacy

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Yes it was.

Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Rainman05 said:

Yeah,

Well, bye. I won't lower myself to the aforementioned pit.

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You know they need decent posters at Stormfront if you are interested.

Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Blackdog said:

You know they need decent posters at Stormfront if you are interested.

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No thank you, I don't need a lobotomy.

Whenever you feel like coming out of the pseudo-intellectual cesspool, give me a ring. I'll love to chat with you and see what you take on the world will be when it won't be covered in bull****.

Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Rainman05 said:

No thank you, I don't need a lobotomy.

Whenever you feel like coming out of the pseudo-intellectual cesspool, give me a ring. I'll love to chat with you and see what you take on the world will be when it won't be covered in bull****.

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My take is at least honest bull****. I mean I have better things to do than sit around and have the likes of you accuse me of "blaming whitey" for everything while you pine for the good old days of Jim crow and apartheid.

Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Blackdog said:

#1 We are not talking about "our legal system" we are talking about South Africa.
#2 So black south african's who suffered under apartheid for how long? Were suffering do to "internal factors" rather than apartheid or colonialism????
#3 Your argument is racist and preposterous.

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1. I thought we were talking about in our country, since you were making comments about slavery
2. The apartheid has been over thrown
3. another appeal to race, its sad that people like you throw the term "racist" around over absolutely everything, & calling people racist who have no negative feelings towards another ethnic group. It distracts and confuses people, and desensitizes them to ACTUAL acts of racism.

Blackdog said:

No. I see that you would rather blame anything other than the true cause.

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In our country? In our country the true cause is in the history books, the challenge is to deal with the side effects; education, family stability, crime etc. But even these are hard to deal without 1. appearing racist or 2. straining racial relations. Reparations aren't going to accomplish anything other then make the other 84% of non African American's feel wronged. Right or wrong, that has severe consequences.

Blackdog said:

Yes it was.

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" Abusive fallacy – a subtype of "ad hominem" when it turns into name-calling rather than arguing about the originally proposed argument. "

That's not a compliment.

Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Blackdog said:

My take is at least honest bull****. I mean I have better things to do than sit around and have the likes of you accuse me of "blaming whitey" for everything while you pine for the good old days of Jim crow and apartheid.

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Nice strawman buddy. I guess fake ideas are easier to argue against then real ones. You might as well be arguing about unicorns.

Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Blackdog said:

My take is at least honest bull****. I mean I have better things to do than sit around and have the likes of you accuse me of "blaming whitey" for everything while you pine for the good old days of Jim crow and apartheid.

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Yes. That is exactly what I am doing. Everything I wrote is in undeniable support of that.

If we ever have the horror of discussing issues, I will be sure I will try and dismiss any subtleties in my approach. Because it is clear that whenever i try to display the multiple layers of a complicated aspect, you don't want to hear about it. So from now on, I will discuss with you caveman style and display just brute, ultra-simplified aspects.

Me no like words here. Me like to go.

Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

ReformCollege said:

1. I thought we were talking about in our country, since you were making comments about slavery
2. The apartheid has been over thrown
3. another appeal to race, its sad that people like you throw the term "racist" around over absolutely everything, & calling people racist who have no negative feelings towards another ethnic group. It distracts and confuses people, and desensitizes them to ACTUAL acts of racism.

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Did you even bother to read what he was saying before just jumping in? So you had not clue what we were talking about?

He brought in slavery, not me. It had nothing at all to do with slavery.

In the context of what we were discussing it was indeed racist.

Why don't you go back and actually read why the discussion. :roll:

ReformCollege said:

In our country? In our country the true cause is in the history books, the challenge is to deal with the side effects; education, family stability, crime etc. But even these are hard to deal without 1. appearing racist or 2. straining racial relations. Reparations aren't going to accomplish anything other then make the other 84% of non African American's feel wronged. Right or wrong, that has severe consequences.

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I agree with this but it is not in anyway related to out discussion at all. :doh

South Africa man.

ReformCollege said:

" Abusive fallacy – a subtype of "ad hominem" when it turns into name-calling rather than arguing about the originally proposed argument. "

That's not a compliment.

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I refuted his position a long time ago. Of course you don't seem to want to read that far back. Now I am just toying with him.

Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Blackdog said:

That's not what he is saying. He is saying if someone or some group is suffering an injustice, as long as it is not against the law, it's not as bad as injustice that is against the law.

That is what he is saying.

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Are we talking about in this country or the South Africa? I'm confused.

In this country, if its not against the law then I don't think the group is purposely being wronged. There may be holes in our legal system for small exceptions, but a group may suffer from suffering for reasons other then purposely being attacked by another group. If the law is being applied fairly across the board, then they have nothing to complain about.

In South Africa, if its not against the law, I think its because the law is broken

Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Rainman05 said:

Yes. That is exactly what I am doing. Everything I wrote is in undeniable support of that.

If we ever have the horror of discussing issues, I will be sure I will try and dismiss any subtleties in my approach. Because it is clear that whenever i try to display the multiple layers of a complicated aspect, you don't want to hear about it. So from now on, I will discuss with you caveman style and display just brute, ultra-simplified aspects.

Me no like words here. Me like to go.

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Their are no layers to years and years of abuse and why people would want revenge. It's pretty ****ing simple really. If it was legal or not has no bearing nor does it matter. As I have said many times suffering is suffering whether it be legal or not. This is not the first time you cried about the white man being abused. You bring race into other threads when no one has even mentioned it. You exposed yourself for what you are. Live with it.