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'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains why

Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

I think you are mixing up excuses with understanding. We all need to do a better job of understanding each other

Let's be real about what people mean when they say something like that. Usually it means understanding what you think while you feel no obligation to try to understand others.
 
Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Let's be real about what people mean when they say something like that. Usually it means understanding what you think while you feel no obligation to try to understand others.

Whatever you say. I just think it's ridiculous to assume that the African American race, as a whole, should be completely impartial to the whole not having rights until a few decades ago thing. I don't know why people assume that means I think it's ok to hate, since I clearly never said that, but obviously - just as a sideline observer - you have to know that's not just going to be hunky-dory afterward.
 
Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

The point is that white people can and have done it as well.

Hardly the same.

You can't forget what we did 40 years ago because it was 40 years ago.

"We" didn't do it; specific individuals did. The attitude that "we" are responsible for some crime against humanity 200 years ago based on nothing but the color of our skin is racist. ;) I don't blame all black people for the Cincinnati Riots. Why are you trying to blame all white people for the 18th-19th century slave trade or an act of violence 40 years ago? I never said anyone had to forget it; I said that its not a valid excuse for underachievement. If CJ Walker, daughter of slaves, could become the first self-made millionairess in US history then whats their excuse for not even graduating from high school in 2012? We don't hear people like Jesse Jackson asking those questions. Instead, he runs his mouth about racist whitey and the vast conspiracy to keep blacks in poverty and people like you try to justify it.

Seems to me that he has an illogical and racially preconceived judgment about black people with no "grounds or sufficient knowledge" on the subject. To say that only blacks riot, recently or not, is stupid and would be, by definition, racist.

Actually I have a mountain of statistical evidence which formed my judgement. But I suppose next you'll come up with some cockamamy story about statistics being fixed and the police being racists. Its a typical tactic; accuse people of being racists when the data doesn't support your views.
 
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Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Whatever you say. I just think it's ridiculous to assume that the African American race, as a whole, should be completely impartial to the whole not having rights until a few decades ago thing. I don't know why people assume that means I think it's ok to hate, since I clearly never said that, but obviously - just as a sideline observer - you have to know that's not just going to be hunky-dory afterward.

If all you ever do is justify something, it's fair to assume that you support that thing, right?
 
Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Hardly the same.

"We" didn't do it; specific individuals did. The attitude that "we" are responsible for some crime against humanity 200 years ago based on nothing but the color of our skin is racist. ;) I don't blame all black people for the Cincinnati Riots. Why are you trying to blame all white people for the 18th-19th century slave trade or an act of violence 40 years ago? I never said anyone had to forget it; I said that its not a valid excuse for underachievement. If CJ Walker, daughter of slaves, could become the first self-made millionairess in US history then whats their excuse for not even graduating from high school in 2012? We don't hear people like Jesse Jackson asking those questions. Instead, he runs his mouth about racist whitey and the vast conspiracy to keep blacks in poverty and people like you try to justify it.

Actually I have a mountain of statistical evidence which formed my judgement. But I suppose next you'll come up with some cockamamy story about statistics being fixed and the police being racists. Its a typical tactic; accuse people of being racists when the data doesn't support your views.

None of what you said makes any sense. Yes, riots in the '60s are not the same as riots in the '90s and beyond. Yes, saying only blacks riot is not accusing "the entire black race", but pointing out that whites have done it is.

Is this really your version of an argument?

If all you ever do is justify something, it's fair to assume that you support that thing, right?

What exactly am I justifying?
 
Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

None of what you said makes any sense.

It makes perfect sense. You accuse me of being a racist because I pointed out the fact that blacks have been the only people to hold a city hostage to violent race-based riots in recent memory. You then claim that "we", being all whites, are collectively responsible for the violent acts committed by individual people 40 years ago because we are white. I never said that all blacks were responsible for the Cincinnati Riots. You are the only one speaking in collective terms here and attempting to advance a racist point of view. Or are you now backpedaling on your "we" accusation?
 
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Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

It makes perfect sense. You accuse me of being a racist because I pointed out the fact that blacks have been the only people to hold a city hostage to violent race-based riots in recent memory. You then claim that "we", being all whites, are collectively responsible for the violent acts committed by individual people 40 years ago because we are white. I never said that all blacks were responsible for the Cincinnati Riots. You are the only one speaking in collective terms here and attempting to advance a racist point of view. Or are you now backpedaling on your "we" accusation?

Because it's not true. In fact, I showed it. There are riots all of the world done by people who aren't black, including many riots by white people - in this country and in others.

I don't know if you are having trouble speaking/reading English, or if you are just trying to confuse semantics because you have no ground to stand on.
 
Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Because it's not true. In fact, I showed it. There are riots all of the world done by people who aren't black, including many riots by white people - in this country and in others.

I have yet to see you provide an example of anyone else holding an American city hostage to violent race-based riots in recent memory. Unless of course "recent" to you is 1971. :roll: Are "we" still responsible? You think that every black person is assigned a racist white man at birth to wait in the wings for an opportunity to sabotage their life? Or just that its justifiable for them to believe it?
 
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Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

I have yet to see you provide an example of anyone else holding an American city hostage to violent race-based riots in recent memory. Unless of course "recent" to you is 1971. :roll: Are "we" still responsible? You think that every black person is assigned a racist white man at birth to wait in the wings for an opportunity to sabotage their life? Or just that its justifiable for them to believe it?

If 1971 isn't recent, then I don't consider 2001 recent either. Sorry, so when have black people done it in recent memory? 2001 is too old. Sorry.
 
Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

If 1971 isn't recent...

Do you honestly consider 1971 to be recent? :lol: Just admit it; you have nothing. There haven't been any violent racially-based riots in American cities by white people, hispanic people, jewish people, asian people, etc. for 40 plus years.
 
Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Do you honestly consider 1971 to be recent? :lol: Just admit it; you have nothing. There haven't been any violent racially-based riots in American cities by white people, hispanic people, jewish people, asian people, etc. for 40 plus years.

Dude, really? You are passing judgment over a race of people and whether or not they are the only ones who are willing to hold a city hostage during a violent riot, and you only want to look over the past 20 years.

It's you that has nothing.
 
Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Dude, really? You are passing judgment over a race of people..

No, YOU are passing judgement on an entire race of people and encouraging another race to do the same. "We" are not responsible for something that happened 40 or 200 years ago. I'm not the one claiming that an entire race is responsible for the actions of individuals. You don't believe that all blacks should be judged on the basis of the behavior of the barbarian thugs looting our cities, and rightly so, but why then do you blame the entire white race for the actions of individuals 40 plus years ago and encourage blacks to do the same?
 
Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

No, YOU are passing judgement on an entire race of people and encouraging another race to do the same. "We" are not responsible for something that happened 40 or 200 years ago. I'm not the one claiming that an entire race is responsible for the actions of individuals. You don't believe that all blacks should be judged on the basis of the behavior of the barbarian thugs looting our cities, and rightly so, but why then do you blame the entire white race for the actions of individuals 40 plus years ago and encourage blacks to do the same?

I can't figure out your argument. I'm not blaming anyone for anything. Here is your "claim":

"I'm not aware of any other group (blacks) which has held an American city hostage to rioting, arson, looting, and violence in recent memory."

So I don't know exactly what you are talking about. I have just shown that there have been plenty of other groups.
 
Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Rocketman said:
not when it predates their lives.

Events have consequences, which become the causes of yet other events in their turn.

Did you experience the American Revolutionary War? Does the American Revolutionary War have an effect on your life?

I'm pretty sure it's no to the former, and yes to the latter. And if that is so, especially given the weight of the history under discussion, why wouldn't it have a profound effect on our current situation?
 
Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Caine said:
So... A black baby born into this world is already born resentful towards whites because of something that has happened in history that has not affected them? Even though they don't know the difference between races yet?

No, of course not. Why do you think that's what I've said?

Caine said:
Quit jabbering about "Oh Woes R DUH EFFEKZ UF DUH HIZTORY" and make SENSE!

1) I have not written the disquoted string of letters anywhere in my posts. I don't know what they mean.

2) I suspect I don't make sense to you because you aren't taking any time to reflect on the ideas presented.

Caine said:
What effects of history? At what point in a black person's life is it that they obtain awareness of their inherent resentment towards white people, which is an excusable trait?

I suspect it happens after a few instances of racist behavior get directed their way.

Caine said:
You are just repeating the same thing without making any effort to explain why history should matter to the 80s and 90s born black people who have had full and equal opportunity in the country since their birth. You just keep repeating.... "Oh Woez is duh history dat be holdin' da black menzzes down"

Again, I haven't written anything like the disquoted string of letters. I am repeating the same thing because you're not engaging the point. We should start with a general point about history: namely, that things which happen in the past matter to how the present is shaped. That seems like such a clear and obvious point, I don't know how it could possibly be simpler. Someone who doesn't believe that is both foolish and foolhardy.

Once the general point is acknowledged (and I really don't see how anyone who was being reasonable could fail to do so), we can look at specific cases. In this specific case, the past history is so horrific and so weighty, it seems hard to understand how it could not continue to have effects today.

And again, we come full circle enough for me to ask... What reason does a 18 year old black male have to resent white people that he should be excused for his resentment?







Caine said:
Socioeconomic status is what matters. An upper class black kid is going to have the same opportunities as an upper class white kid.

Still untrue, and also irrelevant. See that hiring study I linked (if it was one of the ones that didn't work, I'll link it a different way. Alternately, you can just google "Implicit bias race hiring" or something like that, and you'll find plenty to keep you busy.

But anyway, there are proportionately more upper middle class white people than black people (i.e. a higher percentage of white people, out of the total population of white people, are upper middle class than the fraction of black people, out of the total population of black people).

Caine said:
BTW: Your links suck... half of them don't work

All of them work for me except two; I'm not sure what happened on those.

Caine said:
the others talk about "disease rates are higher for afric.." OF ****ING COURSE THEY ARE... WHITE PEOPLE CAN'T GET SICKLE CELL.

The studies linked adjust for that, looking at health outcomes over a range of diseases.

Caine said:
Sorry, I call bull****. "Social capital" is something an INDIVIDUAL builds.

If you're defining terms that way, OK: African Americans lack <insert whatever term you like here, that means the same as social capital except as acquired by communities>. Until you settle on the term you'd like to use, I'll just call it "X". Put X back into my original argument, and proceed from there.

Caine said:
You show up to a job interview dressed well, articulate, honest, and qualified for the job, and it doesn't matter if you are black or white.

Two points:

1) Yes, it still does matter. That's been demonstrated over and over.

2) Just as important: all of those are learned normative behaviors. When you have a population that never learns them, and doesn't even learn that they're supposed to learn them, I have a hard time blaming individuals in that population for not being more successful. It would be like throwing someone into a biology lab without any training, and expecting them to understand automated sampling protocols--if they weren't even aware there are such things, they couldn't very well be responsible for their lack of knowledge.

Caine said:
So I, who had nothing to do with slavery or discrimination........ I am supposed to ACCEPT having people of another race hateful and resentful and distrustful towards me for some **** I didn't do to them, who didn't experience it.... and you expect the racial "gap" to be bridged? GTFO.

Actually, no, I do not expect it to be bridged. I think slavery will turn out to be one of those things that, once you do it, it can never be undone.

But you may as well accept it; if you were actually in the shoes of most African Americans, I think you'd probably develop quite a resentment as well.

Caine said:
Until blacks can grow up and move on, it ain't going to happen. Im not kissing someone's ass because of some **** I didn't do, and I am sick of walking on eggshells. So call me a racist... cause I didn't have **** to do with it.

I don't know if you're a racist or not. But you seem not to grasp the notion of cause and effect, which is rather strange.

Caine said:
And yet that is an alternate reality to the one being faced by blacks born in the current generation of mid 20s and early 30 year olds.......... Nobody is paying **** back. Last time I checked, my black friends don't have a ****ing check they have to send off to the "Cracker Slave Massa" that sets them back every month. So your analogy can suck a nut.

Well, you have to apply the principle of analogy evenly. Just as the situation is a proxy for reality, each individual element is a proxy for an element of reality. I was not claiming that African Americans write actual checks to white Americans; the checks in the analogy are a proxy for the continuing unfair effects that slavery and Jim Crow have produced.

Caine said:
You see.... Apparently you think you are talking to just another privileged northern hand flopping white dude whose parents had plenty of "opportunity" to pass on to them.

No, I grew up moving from one "trailer" to the next...

I made no assumptions about who you are. I'm not sure why I should; arguments are what they are, regardless of who argues them. I play the board, not the man.

Caine said:
So you see..... Claiming I had some kind of special leg up in life because I am white is just ****ing stupid.

Indeed. But I have not made that claim. I would acknowledge that it would be possible to get that idea from the analogy about the court decision. But that was not my intent.

Caine said:
Any poor black person who stayed out of trouble (that is THEIR responsibility to do, regardless of where they life) and stayed in school (THEIR RESPONSIBILITY) could have done the same thing.

Again, probably false. Are police departments across the country hiring that many people?

Caine said:
If someone lacked the ability to make good decisions, they can't blame that **** on their race.... because I know plenty of broke ass crackers in North Carolina who made ****ty decisions too.

Depending on what you mean by this, you're committing one of two serious fallacies. You're either affirming the consequent, or begging the question. If you elaborate on what you mean, I'll tell you which.
 
Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Napoleon said:
Now lets examine why that is.

Ok, lets.

Napoleon said:
The most prominent leaders in the black community LOVE stirring the pot.

Well, I suspect this is just what most people would do in their situation. And rightly so. If you see injustice, the proper reaction is not to acquiesce in leaving things as they are.

Napoleon said:
Their mantra is that you didn't get that job, you are poor, or you were arrested not because you didn't graduate from high school, take responsibility for your life, or commit a crime but because ol' racist whitey is at it again.

I don't have that impression. This seems to be an opinion. Oh, I imagine you can find someone who's said something like this. Saying this is characteristic of what black leaders say, however, is going to be a much tougher point to establish.

Napoleon said:
And then there's a distorted earful of life for blacks 200 years ago and calls for a riot.

No doubt for every call for a riot that an African American leader makes, we could find a call for mass murder, assassinations, or other such by white supremacist groups. I don't see an army of angry white people killing blacks en masse, but I also don't see a bunch of black people rioting. I'll leave the point delicately unstated.

Napoleon said:
We don't hear many leaders in the black community mention that only 1% of whites were actually slave holders, that the largest slave holder in Louissianna was actually a black woman, or that the first self-made millionairess was a black woman.

Whether those are true or not, why are they relevant? Most African Americans today have ancestors who were slaves. At least as importantly, the social and economic status of African Americans today is greatly affected by slavery and Jim Crow laws. All of what you say can be true, and mean absolutely nothing to that analysis.

Napoleon said:
Instead, its a bunch of bull saying that you aren't responsible for the state of your life

People who think they are entirely responsible for the state of their lives seem to have an overblown sense of human power, and a staggering ignorance of history and the reasons for civilization.

Napoleon said:
and you'll never get a fair shot because everyone is racist and those successful black men and women are race traitors.

Your entire rant here seems to be nothing more than a straw man. Racism continues to exist, and it has direct power in the day-to-day interactions between people of different races. And this is surely part fo the problem. The other part of the problem is that accumulated acts of racism have led to serious disadvantage for African Americans generally.

Napoleon said:
The disadvantages experienced by the black community in modern society are of their own making not the result of anything the white man has done to them.

To believe this, one would have to believe that history has no effect on the present, or so it seems to me. I don't think anyone who fully grasps what has been done to African Americans could believe that the effects of those happenings are entirely settled out.

Napoleon said:
Black Americans have been offered every advantage we can provide

Not really. They've been offered the advantages we are willing to provide. Not the ones we have been capable of offering, or any that could redress the injustice done to them.

Napoleon said:
and its not our fault that many choose to sell crack on street corners instead of graduating from high school and/or going to college.

Well...I don't know that we're in a position to analyze fault just yet. But again, I'm not sure why this is important. It's not my fault (or yours, I assume) that human beings are mortal. That doesn't mean we shouldn't, or don't, respect that fact and make allowances for it, both small and large, from our day-to-day lives to our grandest political institutions.
 
Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Ok, lets.



Well, I suspect this is just what most people would do in their situation. And rightly so. If you see injustice, the proper reaction is not to acquiesce in leaving things as they are.



I don't have that impression. This seems to be an opinion. Oh, I imagine you can find someone who's said something like this. Saying this is characteristic of what black leaders say, however, is going to be a much tougher point to establish.



No doubt for every call for a riot that an African American leader makes, we could find a call for mass murder, assassinations, or other such by white supremacist groups. I don't see an army of angry white people killing blacks en masse, but I also don't see a bunch of black people rioting. I'll leave the point delicately unstated.



Whether those are true or not, why are they relevant? Most African Americans today have ancestors who were slaves. At least as importantly, the social and economic status of African Americans today is greatly affected by slavery and Jim Crow laws. All of what you say can be true, and mean absolutely nothing to that analysis.



People who think they are entirely responsible for the state of their lives seem to have an overblown sense of human power, and a staggering ignorance of history and the reasons for civilization.



Your entire rant here seems to be nothing more than a straw man. Racism continues to exist, and it has direct power in the day-to-day interactions between people of different races. And this is surely part fo the problem. The other part of the problem is that accumulated acts of racism have led to serious disadvantage for African Americans generally.



To believe this, one would have to believe that history has no effect on the present, or so it seems to me. I don't think anyone who fully grasps what has been done to African Americans could believe that the effects of those happenings are entirely settled out.



Not really. They've been offered the advantages we are willing to provide. Not the ones we have been capable of offering, or any that could redress the injustice done to them.



Well...I don't know that we're in a position to analyze fault just yet. But again, I'm not sure why this is important. It's not my fault (or yours, I assume) that human beings are mortal. That doesn't mean we shouldn't, or don't, respect that fact and make allowances for it, both small and large, from our day-to-day lives to our grandest political institutions.


:2bigcry: :2bigcry: poor poor black people, the system is rigged against them, history is against them, nothing is their fault, they don't stand a chance. hell, if I was black I'd just give up and kill myself...since the whole situation is beyond my control :2bigcry: :2bigcry:
 
Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

OscarB63 said:
poor poor black people, they system is rigged against them, history is against them, nothing is their fault, they don't stand a chance. hell, if I was black I'd just give up and kill myself...since the whole situation is beyond my control

One can lack some control, but not lack every kind or level of control. If you actually want to think about these issues, try not taking everything automatically to an extreme, and only do so when there's a clear reason for it. I have never said that black people in this country lack all power and control. They have at least the natural power any human being has to move around, talk to people, form associations, and so on.

So far, those powers are not enough to redress the opposing power, which is based in history and is responsible for ongoing injustice.
 
Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Ok, lets.

:)

Well, I suspect this is just what most people would do in their situation.

Most people? I don't think so.

And rightly so. If you see injustice, the proper reaction is not to acquiesce in leaving things as they are.

What injustice would that be? There certainly wasn't injustice in the shooting of Timothy Thomas yet the reactions were calls for total anarchy, violence, and millions of dollars in damage to the city of Cincinnati.

Saying this is characteristic of what black leaders say, however, is going to be a much tougher point to establish.

I've heard enough from Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton to know its true.

No doubt for every call for a riot that an African American leader makes, we could find a call for mass murder, assassinations, or other such by white supremacist groups. I don't see an army of angry white people killing blacks en masse, but I also don't see a bunch of black people rioting. I'll leave the point delicately unstated.

Crown Heights Riots of '91, LA Riots of '92, St. Petersburg Riots of '96, Cincinnati Riots of 2001, Benton Harbor Riots of 2006, Oakland riots of 2009. Ring any bells?

So far, those powers are not enough to redress the opposing power, which is based in history and is responsible for ongoing injustice.

What ongoing injustice would that be?
 
Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

One can lack some control, but not lack every kind or level of control. If you actually want to think about these issues, try not taking everything automatically to an extreme, and only do so when there's a clear reason for it. I have never said that black people in this country lack all power and control. They have at least the natural power any human being has to move around, talk to people, form associations, and so on.

So far, those powers are not enough to redress the opposing power, which is based in history and is responsible for ongoing injustice.


thanks for confirming everything I said in my post....outside of the "natural power" to move about...blacks are powerless victims of the evil white society :roll:
 
Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

100 years ago, a black man stole my great grandfather's horse. according to ashurbanipal's logic...I would be justified in distrusting and being resentful towards all black people
 
Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

Events have consequences, which become the causes of yet other events in their turn.

Did you experience the American Revolutionary War? Does the American Revolutionary War have an effect on your life?

I'm pretty sure it's no to the former, and yes to the latter. And if that is so, especially given the weight of the history under discussion, why wouldn't it have a profound effect on our current situation?

It did not directly, my great grandparents were moonshiners during prohitbition, no effect.
 
Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

'As a black person it's always racial'
As a person, it's never racial.
 
Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

OscarB63 said:
thanks for confirming everything I said in my post....outside of the "natural power" to move about...blacks are powerless victims of the evil white society

You seem to have a habit of straw-manning me, which is usually characteristic of someone who knows they really cannot argue their position.

I did not say anything remotely like what you've said. Nor is what you said a consequence of my position.

OscarB63 said:
100 years ago, a black man stole my great grandfather's horse. according to ashurbanipal's logic...I would be justified in distrusting and being resentful towards all black people

No, you would not, according to my logic. If, however, 100 years ago, you and most of the members of whatever ethnic group to which you belong were enslaved, killed young, torn away from loved ones, treated with incredible brutality, etc. and then after being "freed," your people were discriminated against for decades, and kept from having the same opportunities as the people who had previously enslaved you, then you would be justified.

Unless you think that stealing a horse is morally equivalent to mass kidnapping, murder, genocide, and torture...
 
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