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Student Suspended for Refusing to Wear a School-Issued RFID Tracker

By the way...I just thought of something..

If I were in a school like this...I would hate this whole thing obviously. I think if we all put ourselves there we would dislike it.

I would actually take that badge while I was in class and put it in my desk, or tape underneath if there was no compartment in the desk. I would have a friend get it who was in the class with me, and I would cut class. I would pick it up either right outside the classroom before heading off to another class...OR...I would tell that friend I'll be over to his place to pick it up before school the next day and skip the whole day. That way tracking shows that I'm where I'm supposed to be...but I'm actually not.

There are ways they will find to get around this....I know I would have done it if I were in that school.
 
I'm somewhat conflicted. It does seem intrusive to have the children being tracked, but I do see the merits of it on campus. I don't think high school students really have a reasonable expectation of privacy about their whereabouts. Schools are supposed to control where students can and can't be, and in a way, this is just helping them out. It's close to the line, but I don't think I'd be against it if all it could was track students locations on campus.
 
AreteCourage said:
High School kids have entered an age where rebellion is going to happen regardless of what action is taken. You allow the parents to do the parenting and if the kid is found to be in trouble then appropriate action is to be taken. This does not mean you put electronic tracking on them.
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You keep saying that but you have yet to demonstrate why it is any worse than hall passes or security cameras.

Fine its rhetorical then
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And you still don't seem to understand...

Ignorance huh? That would imply that I'm uneducated on the subject which I am not. I went through school being bullied. I tried everything else...tell an adult...blah blah blah!

You know what worked? When I decided that enough was enough and I didn't let myself get walked over. I reared back and socked that bully right in the jaw. Guess what? That problem was solved.
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Being bullied does not make you an expert. For every kid that stands up for themselves like you did (and good for you, seriously) there are dozens of other kids, if not more, that take the crap, get depressed, cut, do drugs, drink, abuse themselves and commit suicide. As A teacher I have heard of very few that stand up for themselves the way that you did and many who have gone so far as to commit suicide.

Kids have become soft. You are put into situations where defending yourself is a must. I learned that. Whether or not I got my ass kicked was irrelevant because just standing up for myself ended the bullying. They went elsewhere because they knew they would be in a fight with me. Sometimes these situations aren't all candy canes and lollipops. You have to defense yourself at times, and with bullies...it usually works!
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Not usually and it depends on the bully.

When I said cameras....it was security cameras around the entrances and exits...not the bathroom for Gods sake.
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That is why I said "going into". Security cameras already are positioned in areas that see access to the bath rooms. I asked why is this not a violation but a security card is? Answer please...
 
AreteCourage said:
By the way...I just thought of something..

If I were in a school like this...I would hate this whole thing obviously. I think if we all put ourselves there we would dislike it.

I would actually take that badge while I was in class and put it in my desk, or tape underneath if there was no compartment in the desk. I would have a friend get it who was in the class with me, and I would cut class. I would pick it up either right outside the classroom before heading off to another class...OR...I would tell that friend I'll be over to his place to pick it up before school the next day and skip the whole day. That way tracking shows that I'm where I'm supposed to be...but I'm actually not.

There are ways they will find to get around this....I know I would have done it if I were in that school.
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Some would try but most wouldn't. Once a couple of people got caught (it isn't that hard to catch them BTW) and a consequence was administered, the rest would not challenge it so overtly.
 
Bodhisattva said:
You keep saying that but you have yet to demonstrate why it is any worse than hall passes or security cameras.
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It is worse because it is crossing a line. It is an unnecessary step. You don't need to waste school resources by using this. Don't you think the money could be used in better ways...perhaps text books, computer labs....something? Instead they use it for this? It doesn't help the academics.



And you still don't seem to understand...
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Oh I do which is why I didn't give a response. You said it rhetorically.



Being bullied does not make you an expert. For every kid that stands up for themselves like you did (and good for you, seriously) there are dozens of other kids, if not more, that take the crap, get depressed, cut, do drugs, drink, abuse themselves and commit suicide. As A teacher I have heard of very few that stand up for themselves the way that you did and many who have gone so far as to commit suicide.
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It doesn't make me an expert, but it certainly means I'm not ignorant on the matter. I speak to kids and parents about bullying. What i tell the victim's parents is to enroll them into self defense classes and other areas to boast confidence and self-esteem. This comes down to parenting as well. I've heard of tragic events like suicide...and my heart bleeds for those kids because I do understand the emotional toll it can take. I just don't think more control and less freedom will solve the issue...its more than that.



Not usually and it depends on the bully.
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From what I've seen...when the victim stands up to the bully...the bully finds another person to pick on that is less likely to stand up for themselves.

That is why I said "going into". Security cameras already are positioned in areas that see access to the bath rooms. I asked why is this not a violation but a security card is? Answer please...
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I think it is a violation personally. That is something that should be fixed too...there is absolutely no reason to place cameras at the entrance and exits to bathrooms.
Some would try but most wouldn't. Once a couple of people got caught (it isn't that hard to catch them BTW) and a consequence was administered, the rest would not challenge it so overtly.
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Sure a couple people would get caught...after the fact. They would be able to skip for that day which in a teenagers mind is worth it because they usually don't think of consequences...they just do it. Then there is that mentality "it won't happen to me." You know as a teacher...the invisibility syndrome teens have.

The fact is that they will find a way around it and not all will conform as you think. Rebellion is what teens do, and what the schools could do is be more open and flexible instead of closed and prison-like.
 
AreteCourage said:
It is worse because it is crossing a line. It is an unnecessary step. You don't need to waste school resources by using this. Don't you think the money could be used in better ways...perhaps text books, computer labs....something? Instead they use it for this? It doesn't help the academics.





Oh I do which is why I didn't give a response. You said it rhetorically.





It doesn't make me an expert, but it certainly means I'm not ignorant on the matter. I speak to kids and parents about bullying. What i tell the victim's parents is to enroll them into self defense classes and other areas to boast confidence and self-esteem. This comes down to parenting as well. I've heard of tragic events like suicide...and my heart bleeds for those kids because I do understand the emotional toll it can take. I just don't think more control and less freedom will solve the issue...its more than that.





From what I've seen...when the victim stands up to the bully...the bully finds another person to pick on that is less likely to stand up for themselves.



I think it is a violation personally. That is something that should be fixed too...there is absolutely no reason to place cameras at the entrance and exits to bathrooms.


Sure a couple people would get caught...after the fact. They would be able to skip for that day which in a teenagers mind is worth it because they usually don't think of consequences...they just do it. Then there is that mentality "it won't happen to me." You know as a teacher...the invisibility syndrome teens have.

The fact is that they will find a way around it and not all will conform as you think. Rebellion is what teens do, and what the schools could do is be more open and flexible instead of closed and prison-like.
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Money is truly wasted in ways that most people don't know and this would be money well spent.

Fighting is not for everybody. It just isn't.

I have had my two daughter in jiu-jitsu for almost two years now. Ages 7 and 9 now. My youngest beats all of the boys.

You think it "crosses a line" but that is just your opinion. Many don't. Open and flexible leads to students pulling fire alarms, smoking, vandalism, bullying, drug deals, gambeling, fighting, starting fires in bathrooms, graffiti, ditching class and leaving campus, etc.

Keep thinking what you will...
 
Mason66 said:
How does the tracking magically stop when the student leaves school grounds?
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Bodhisattva said:
They turn in their card? Not that difficult.
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OH lol I sooooooooo read this wrong, :3oops::doh

i thought he asked how it magically stops the kids from leaving school LMAO

but yes Bodhi you are right they turn them in and collect them and vice versa in the morning.

Dont know how these tags work but the tags I have at my work, are blue tooth. The turn on when you badge in the building and when they turn off when you badge out.

If these are like those that would be another simple solution.

there are also trackers that are short range and wont work far away from a detection source :shrug:

many simple solutions
 
AreteCourage said:
By the way...I just thought of something..

If I were in a school like this...I would hate this whole thing obviously. I think if we all put ourselves there we would dislike it.

I would actually take that badge while I was in class and put it in my desk, or tape underneath if there was no compartment in the desk. I would have a friend get it who was in the class with me, and I would cut class. I would pick it up either right outside the classroom before heading off to another class...OR...I would tell that friend I'll be over to his place to pick it up before school the next day and skip the whole day. That way tracking shows that I'm where I'm supposed to be...but I'm actually not.

There are ways they will find to get around this....I know I would have done it if I were in that school.
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nope, like i said my work is like this it doesnt bother me one bit, i actually never even think about it. Why would I :shrug:

also you solutions to "beating it" are meaningless LOL the teacher would see you are not there and i dont recall anybody saying it was full proof on ly that it offered MORE option lol

and most importantly, the point most people are making that it simply doesn't infringe on rights and its an extra tool.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Money is truly wasted in ways that most people don't know and this would be money well spent.

Fighting is not for everybody. It just isn't.

I have had my two daughter in jiu-jitsu for almost two years now. Ages 7 and 9 now. My youngest beats all of the boys.

You think it "crosses a line" but that is just your opinion. Many don't. Open and flexible leads to students pulling fire alarms, smoking, vandalism, bullying, drug deals, gambeling, fighting, starting fires in bathrooms, graffiti, ditching class and leaving campus, etc.

Keep thinking what you will...
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You think open and flexible automatically means negativity?

The problem seems to be that people automatically think these horrendous things will happen, but that may not be true. Strict and confining schools feed rebellious attitudes. If schools would instead concentrate on educating students instead of controlling them...perhaps we could find a solution
 
Objective-J said:
nope, like i said my work is like this it doesnt bother me one bit, i actually never even think about it. Why would I :shrug:

also you solutions to "beating it" are meaningless LOL the teacher would see you are not there and i dont recall anybody saying it was full proof on ly that it offered MORE option lol

and most importantly, the point most people are making that it simply doesn't infringe on rights and its an extra tool.
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The teacher not seeing me is irrelevant. Teenagers think of the here and now....if I'm not in class and am able to skip and do what I want...then I could careless...I'll deal with the consequences the next day or later. My point isn't that the student wouldn't get in trouble...its that they would not care about it until it happened.

As far as you at work...put yourself in your teenage body and mindset...then think about it.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Money is truly wasted in ways that most people don't know and this would be money well spent.

Fighting is not for everybody. It just isn't.

I have had my two daughter in jiu-jitsu for almost two years now. Ages 7 and 9 now. My youngest beats all of the boys.

You think it "crosses a line" but that is just your opinion. Many don't. Open and flexible leads to students pulling fire alarms, smoking, vandalism, bullying, drug deals, gambeling, fighting, starting fires in bathrooms, graffiti, ditching class and leaving campus, etc.

Keep thinking what you will...
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yeah i find it odd that a person who supports passes, guards/adult patrols, cameras, locked doors finds this any different because the reality is its really not.

Now if a person was against all that stuff then yeah i guess i could see it but to think a tag is much different than what really goes on is just silly IMO.

Maybe its just me because i volunteer at a school and i know how closely the kids are monitored and how hard it actually can be sometimes.

under prime circumstances they are already monitor very well and they are never anywhere where they arent supposed to be when they arent supposed to be BUT there are always those case when they it happened and 99.9% of the time the kids are breaking rules.
 
Objective-J said:
yeah i find it odd that a person who supports passes, guards/adult patrols, cameras, locked doors finds this any different because the reality is its really not.

Now if a person was against all that stuff then yeah i guess i could see it but to think a tag is much different than what really goes on is just silly IMO.

Maybe its just me because i volunteer at a school and i know how closely the kids are monitored and how hard it actually can be sometimes.

under prime circumstances they are already monitor very well and they are never anywhere where they arent supposed to be when they arent supposed to be BUT there are always those case when they it happened and 99.9% of the time the kids are breaking rules.
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My support only goes with what they already have...there is simply no need for this with all the other things they have available.
 
AreteCourage said:
The teacher not seeing me is irrelevant. Teenagers think of the here and now....if I'm not in class and am able to skip and do what I want...then I could careless...I'll deal with the consequences the next day or later. My point isn't that the student wouldn't get in trouble...its that they would not care about it until it happened.

As far as you at work...put yourself in your teenage body and mindset...then think about it.
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actually unless you have no clue what is being discussed its totally relevant LMAO

the teacher knows you are skipping and reports its :shrug: its the main purpose. Now of course you can hide out or what ever but you are in trouble and documented.

Kids not caring is ALWAYS going to happen, that means nothing to this system LOL

and I do think about it, as a kid it wouldnt bother me any more than any other "rules" that bothered kids for no reasons, they get over it just like i did
 
AreteCourage said:
My support only goes with what they already have...there is simply no need for this with all the other things they have available.
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says you but some schools may feel different, especially if this is cheaper than something else or a particular school has a hige rate of skipping or injury etc

someone else suggested "just put security guards at every door" which is just stupid considering every school may not have that type of funds. 10 doors, 10 guards at 30K a piece a year.

again, you may not like it but in reality theres nothing any worse about it over cameras. guards etc
 
AreteCourage said:
You think open and flexible automatically means negativity?

The problem seems to be that people automatically think these horrendous things will happen, but that may not be true. Strict and confining schools feed rebellious attitudes. If schools would instead concentrate on educating students instead of controlling them...perhaps we could find a solution
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how do you educate them with out a level of control? if they arent in classes or where the info is theres no education to be had.
not to mention this isnt any more "strict or confining" than any school i have attended or volunteered at, they just have a better "tool"

how is it more strict?
 
AreteCourage said:
You think open and flexible automatically means negativity?

The problem seems to be that people automatically think these horrendous things will happen, but that may not be true. Strict and confining schools feed rebellious attitudes. If schools would instead concentrate on educating students instead of controlling them...perhaps we could find a solution
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Automatically happening is irrelevant. They already happen. That is a fact and the fact is the point. Sorry... each one of the things I mentioned above have happened in our school in the past two years.

Rebellious kids rebel no matter what. Just another fact. I have worked in all kinds of schools and in my vast experience you are very naive. Behaviour issues are a part of education and you can't teach if you have students unwilling or unable to be taught. There are many parents that won't let their children do home work at home. Don't feed their kids much at all. Beat them. Molest them. Aren't smart parents to begin with. The issue is getting bigger.. not smaller. Divorced. Absent parents.
 
AreteCourage said:
My support only goes with what they already have...there is simply no need for this with all the other things they have available.
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As a teacher I can tell you that there is a need for it... your objections are noted though.

At the very least these cards should be issued to the 2-3% of students that are causing 95% of the problems.
 
AreteCourage said:
My support only goes with what they already have...there is simply no need for this with all the other things they have available.
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Additionally, this would probably make things less strict. Students would not have to be asking for passes or showing them to teachers when out in the halls. They could move about more freely because they are being monitored indirectly instead of directly. This solution could solve many problems before they occur.
 
Define what "The Beast" is. If this kid thinks that elements of the government are possibly "The Beast" does this make him a traitor? What if he takes the definition literally as in "A non-human entity with will upon the world the has the ability to take life" Would this still fall within freedom of religion? Not saying the school would take his life. But what if some rogue person with powers relative did a side job using this tracking method? A bad job. Would this kid be wrong by choosing to by-pass "unknown/possible/unsure "beasts"? Who decrees what is relevant to religion and what isnt? Is whim/will not enough?

Who knows what this kids reason is. But the fact that its his reason isn't enough?
 
AreteCourage said:
By the way...I just thought of something..

If I were in a school like this...I would hate this whole thing obviously. I think if we all put ourselves there we would dislike it.

I would actually take that badge while I was in class and put it in my desk, or tape underneath if there was no compartment in the desk. I would have a friend get it who was in the class with me, and I would cut class. I would pick it up either right outside the classroom before heading off to another class...OR...I would tell that friend I'll be over to his place to pick it up before school the next day and skip the whole day. That way tracking shows that I'm where I'm supposed to be...but I'm actually not.

There are ways they will find to get around this....I know I would have done it if I were in that school.
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that will work until the moment the security system is activated allowing only those with the chipped credential access
those kids who ruined theirs or misplaced it will be SOL ... assuming they actually want to go anywhere on campus
 
Too lazy to look through this thread, but I'm curious, is anyone here actually in favor of this tracking system?
 
Cilogy said:
Too lazy to look through this thread, but I'm curious, is anyone here actually in favor of this tracking system?
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Considering it's a RFID with limited range in a school, I'm waivering. In the case of a school shooting, I can see how that can be useful for securing and locating students. It's not like it's a GPS chip the government can track you all over the world with.
 
obvious Child said:
Considering it's a RFID with limited range in a school, I'm waivering. In the case of a school shooting, I can see how that can be useful for securing and locating students. It's not like it's a GPS chip the government can track you all over the world with.
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Do you think it is possible that, if these chips become common in all schools, the "chip" can move to more aspects of life, like all employment?
 
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