• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Student Suspended for Refusing to Wear a School-Issued RFID Tracker

Objective-J said:
you are lying again just like you lied before. its not an argument.

again at the end of the day the tags in the manner they are used do not infringe on freedom or rights and the school has the right to know who is on their property and where. make 50 more posts this fact will not change :)
Click to expand...

This is not a lie. It is as said. Your argument is that "can they go anywhere they want whenever they want? No. Then the response is warranted". There's no restriction there, there's no real fact that doesn't ignore the larger consequence. All of our movements everywhere outside our own personal property (and in many ways, even there) are restricted on some level. You like to ignore that. Which is why I am not lying, and you are being dishonest and presenting little to no fact. Sure a student can't go everywhere (that being the closest thing you have to a fact in your argument and nothing more), but so are the rest of our movements...on public property no less. But you break your argument because you don't want to say we can be forced to have RFID in public or in State or National parks even though your argument makes none of these distinctions. It is an argument of general non-restriction. And that's a fact.
 
Objective-J said:
again at the end of the day the tags in the manner they are used do not infringe on freedom or rights and the school has the right to know who is on their property and where. make 50 more posts this fact will not change :)
Click to expand...

It's a 4th amendment issue. There is the infringement upon right and liberty.
 
Ikari said:
This is not a lie. It is as said. Your argument is that "can they go anywhere they want whenever they want? No. Then the response is warranted". There's no restriction there, there's no real fact that doesn't ignore the larger consequence. All of our movements everywhere outside our own personal property (and in many ways, even there) are restricted on some level. You like to ignore that. Which is why I am not lying, and you are being dishonest and presenting little to no fact. Sure a student can't go everywhere (that being the closest thing you have to a fact in your argument and nothing more), but so are the rest of our movements...on public property no less. But you break your argument because you don't want to say we can be forced to have RFID in public or in State or National parks even though your argument makes none of these distinctions. It is an argument of general non-restriction. And that's a fact.
Click to expand...

Please stop lying any making stuff up, stay on topic, on things ACTUALLY being said and out of fantasyland

Does my kid have the right to go anywhere on school property at any time she wants? Nope
Do I have the right to go anywhere on school property at any time she wants? Nope
Does the school have the right to know who is on their property , where and when? Yes
again at the end of the day the tags in the manner they are used do not infringe on freedom or rights and the school has the right to know who is on their property, when and where.
make 50 more posts these facts will not change :)
 
Ikari said:
It's a 4th amendment issue. There is the infringement upon right and liberty.
Click to expand...



Does my kid have the right to go anywhere on school property at any time she wants? Nope
Do I have the right to go anywhere on school property at any time she wants? Nope
Does the school have the right to know who is on their property , where and when? Yes
again at the end of the day the tags in the manner they are used do not infringe on freedom or rights and the school has the right to know who is on their property, when and where.

make 50 more posts these facts will not change :)
 
Objective-J said:
Please stop lying any making stuff up, stay on topic, on things ACTUALLY being said and out of fantasyland

Does my kid have the right to go anywhere on school property at any time she wants? Nope
Do I have the right to go anywhere on school property at any time she wants? Nope
Does the school have the right to know who is on their property , where and when? Yes
again at the end of the day the tags in the manner they are used do not infringe on freedom or rights and the school has the right to know who is on their property, when and where.
make 50 more posts these facts will not change :)
Click to expand...

Public school has no rights, so no.

As I have stated before, this has been dismantled. You claim I lie and then continue with an argument that proves I am not. I have addressed all your issues, you can only ignore and deflect ad nauseum. And that is a fact.
 
Ikari said:
Public school has no rights, so no.

As I have stated before, this has been dismantled. You claim I lie and then continue with an argument that proves I am not. I have addressed all your issues, you can only ignore and deflect ad nauseum. And that is a fact.
Click to expand...

Does my kid have the right to go anywhere on school property at any time she wants? Nope
Do I have the right to go anywhere on school property at any time she wants? Nope
Does the school have the right to know who is on their property , where and when? Yes
again at the end of the day the tags in the manner they are used do not infringe on freedom or rights and the school has the right to know who is on their property, when and where.

make 50 more posts these facts will not change :)
 
Ikari said:
Public school has no rights, so no.

As I have stated before, this has been dismantled. You claim I lie and then continue with an argument that proves I am not. I have addressed all your issues, you can only ignore and deflect ad nauseum. And that is a fact.
Click to expand...

Schools do not have rights but they have been granted with powers. The question is, is the power to monitor students a violation? As it is now the answer is no. We monitor where students go and when they go. We are already violating their 4th Amendment rights according to your argument, right? Then we get to the tricky part.... how much monitoring is OK?
 
justabubba said:
and if i am the school administrator and experience a columbine-like assault, i want to know how many of my students are located in the most vulnerable location
with this device, i should be able to learn that information
Click to expand...

How often does a Columbine happen?

This is about sacrificing freedom for safety which is wrong on all levels. I reiterate that freedom is not safe and was never meant to be, and we cannot teach our kids about it by taking them away.

Who is to say that the people doing this Columbine don't have access to these location trackers too, and can find the ones they want to kill first..which maybe your kid!
 
AreteCourage said:
How often does a Columbine happen?

This is about sacrificing freedom for safety which is wrong on all levels. I reiterate that freedom is not safe and was never meant to be, and we cannot teach our kids about it by taking them away.

Who is to say that the people doing this Columbine don't have access to these location trackers too, and can find the ones they want to kill first..which maybe your kid!
Click to expand...

A columbine doesn't happen often, thankfully.
Kids scrawling graffiti - happens often.
Kids bullying other kids - happens often.
Kids cutting class - happens often.
Kids doing stupid things and getting hurt - happens often.
Parents suing the school because their kids did something stupid - happens often.

Why, you might ask, would parents sue if their kids did something stupid and got hurt? Answer: Because the school is responsible for the stupid things that kids do, and therefore must monitor their behavior. The school acts in place of the parents, and therefore has a mandate to keep track of their wards. When they fail to do this, which also happens all too often, then it is the school as well as the minors who are at fault.

Kids are kids. They are not adults and can't be treated as adults. Let them graduate and turn 18, then the stupid things they do are on them.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Is the power to monitor students a violation?
Click to expand...

No. It's an obligation of the school. I expect my kid's school to take every reasonable means to ensure the safety of my children from the minute I drop them off to the minute I pick them up. If RFID chips on a card will help ensure that the obligation is fulfilled, I don't have a single issue with it.
 
Dittohead not! said:
A columbine doesn't happen often, thankfully.
Kids scrawling graffiti - happens often.
Kids bullying other kids - happens often.
Kids cutting class - happens often.
Kids doing stupid things and getting hurt - happens often.
Parents suing the school because their kids did something stupid - happens often.

Why, you might ask, would parents sue if their kids did something stupid and got hurt? Answer: Because the school is responsible for the stupid things that kids do, and therefore must monitor their behavior. The school acts in place of the parents, and therefore has a mandate to keep track of their wards. When they fail to do this, which also happens all too often, then it is the school as well as the minors who are at fault.

Kids are kids. They are not adults and can't be treated as adults. Let them graduate and turn 18, then the stupid things they do are on them.
Click to expand...

My point is that electronic monitoring is going too far. The school can use other means...but this is way too far
 
Bodhisattva said:
Schools do not have rights but they have been granted with powers. The question is, is the power to monitor students a violation? As it is now the answer is no. We monitor where students go and when they go. We are already violating their 4th Amendment rights according to your argument, right? Then we get to the tricky part.... how much monitoring is OK?
Click to expand...

Exactly. I agree with you here. This is very different than what Objective is saying, however. But yes, they have been given the privilege and duty to monitor the property and to some level they may do so. But ultimately they are limited and there are things which are off limits even in the vain of monitoring a property they have the privilege and duty to monitor. This level of electronic measurement, tracking, and databasing I say is right out. It's too grievous an assault on the 4th and it is exceptionally dangerous to indoctrinate our kids into accepting these aggressive forms of violations.
 
AreteCourage said:
My point is that electronic monitoring is going too far. The school can use other means...but this is way too far
Click to expand...

and nobody is knocking that opinion, depending on how it was used i may agree with you, people are just pointing out the fact that it doesnt violate any rights or freedoms like some falsely pointed out.
 
Objective-J said:
as long as its on their property during school hours im find with it. Nobody is forcing her.

My work has the same badge, its never bothered me :shrug:

Do you see harm in it?
Click to expand...

How does the tracking magically stop when the student leaves school grounds?
 
Objective-J said:
and nobody is knocking that opinion, depending on how it was used i may agree with you, people are just pointing out the fact that it doesnt violate any rights or freedoms like some falsely pointed out.
Click to expand...

I find it to be intrusive. If I were a student, why would I want the administration to know if I were on the throne? Is that their business? No, it is mine.

When I was in school, they did a perfectly acceptable thing. They had teachers/administrators walking the halls from time to time, locked doors to areas where students don't belong, and teachers gave these funny things call "hall passes."

Someone mentioned bullying, and that will never be stopped. You cannot stop bullying through more control. It won't work at all. Bullying is a part of coming up in school, and it is up to the parents of the bully and the victim to discuss ways to get through it. More often then not, you stop bullying by punching the bully square in the face. Way to stop the bully from bullying is to have good parenting.

There is a line that should not be crossed, and students should be given the right to their own privacy even within school property. Like I said, why should administrators know if a student is dropping a deuce?

Hall Passes, cameras, and adults in the halls from time to time....that is all you need.
 
AreteCourage said:
I find it to be intrusive.
Click to expand...
of course you do. you should. the school would have a means to find you that it would not otherwise possess. but that does not make it wrong
If I were a student, why would I want the administration to know if I were on the throne?
Click to expand...
why would the school be concerned with what the student wants
Is that their business? No, it is mine.
Click to expand...
dropping the deuce is your own business, certainly
but knowing that you are on campus even tho they cannot physically see what you are doing in the stall, is a legitimate concern for the school
When I was in school, they did a perfectly acceptable thing. They had teachers/administrators walking the halls from time to time, locked doors to areas where students don't belong, and teachers gave these funny things call "hall passes."
Click to expand...
and when i was in school they had mimeograph machines and one phone on campus, located at the principal's office. handheld calculators had not yet been invented; used a slide rule instead. times change. we have access to much more useful technology now than we had then. unless there is a good reason not to use it, then we should use it
Someone mentioned bullying, and that will never be stopped. You cannot stop bullying through more control. It won't work at all. Bullying is a part of coming up in school, and it is up to the parents of the bully and the victim to discuss ways to get through it. More often then not, you stop bullying by punching the bully square in the face. Way to stop the bully from bullying is to have good parenting.
Click to expand...
you can monitor the movements of the bully so that you can better monitor the bully's actions, hopefully preventing him from intimidating other students
seems like a good application of this device
There is a line that should not be crossed, and students should be given the right to their own privacy even within school property.
Click to expand...
why is that a line which should not be crossed. what right do the students have not to be monitored on campus
Like I said, why should administrators know if a student is dropping a deuce?
Click to expand...
last year, while teaching, my wife was trying to locate a troublesome student who left her classroom
another student ratted the girl out; she was standing/squatting on the commode so that her feet would not show underneath. she was hiding. with this device, my wife would not have needed a student to violate omerta to confirm that the student remained on campus for the security staff to pick up
Hall Passes, cameras, and adults in the halls from time to time....that is all you need.
Click to expand...
if that was all that was needed, then this new technology would not be adopted. it can better do things some of those other techniques cannot
 
AreteCourage said:
I find it to be intrusive. If I were a student, why would I want the administration to know if I were on the throne? Is that their business? No, it is mine.

When I was in school, they did a perfectly acceptable thing. They had teachers/administrators walking the halls from time to time, locked doors to areas where students don't belong, and teachers gave these funny things call "hall passes."

Someone mentioned bullying, and that will never be stopped. You cannot stop bullying through more control. It won't work at all. Bullying is a part of coming up in school, and it is up to the parents of the bully and the victim to discuss ways to get through it. More often then not, you stop bullying by punching the bully square in the face. Way to stop the bully from bullying is to have good parenting.

There is a line that should not be crossed, and students should be given the right to their own privacy even within school property. Like I said, why should administrators know if a student is dropping a deuce?

Hall Passes, cameras, and adults in the halls from time to time....that is all you need.
Click to expand...

again you are allowed to find it intrusive or have an opinion that you think its too much, not arguing opinions just stating the fact it doesnt violate rights, hall passes and cameras and adults in the hallwall may allow me to know if you are taking a dump just as much lol
 
justabubba said:
and if i am the school administrator and experience a columbine-like assault, i want to know how many of my students are located in the most vulnerable location
with this device, i should be able to learn that information
Click to expand...

Except in that case, so would the assailant. In fact the kid would probably be more familiar with the tech.
 
Hatuey said:
No. It's an obligation of the school. I expect my kid's school to take every reasonable means to ensure the safety of my children from the minute I drop them off to the minute I pick them up. If RFID chips on a card will help ensure that the obligation is fulfilled, I don't have a single issue with it.
Click to expand...

It was rhetorical. I agree. It is our obligation both moral and legal. Many people don't seem to understand the later...
 
Mason66 said:
How does the tracking magically stop when the student leaves school grounds?
Click to expand...

They turn in their card? Not that difficult.
 
AreteCourage said:
I find it to be intrusive. If I were a student, why would I want the administration to know if I were on the throne? Is that their business? No, it is mine.
Click to expand...

Students are children and thankfully adults make decisions for things that students obviously wouldn't like. Do we let our kids eat ice cream for dinner every night or do we have them eat their vegetables?

When I was in school, they did a perfectly acceptable thing. They had teachers/administrators walking the halls from time to time, locked doors to areas where students don't belong, and teachers gave these funny things call "hall passes."
Click to expand...

You seem to have no idea what unsupervised students can get away with. That's rhetorical.

Someone mentioned bullying, and that will never be stopped. You cannot stop bullying through more control. It won't work at all. Bullying is a part of coming up in school, and it is up to the parents of the bully and the victim to discuss ways to get through it. More often then not, you stop bullying by punching the bully square in the face. Way to stop the bully from bullying is to have good parenting.
Click to expand...

Punch them in the face? Absolutely clueless. :roll:

The ignorance of this post is simply astounding...

There is a line that should not be crossed, and students should be given the right to their own privacy even within school property. Like I said, why should administrators know if a student is dropping a deuce?

Hall Passes, cameras, and adults in the halls from time to time....that is all you need.
Click to expand...

Why should students be filmed going into the bathroom to tak a deuce?
 
Bodhisattva said:
They turn in their card? Not that difficult.
Click to expand...

Do they?

So every morning there is a huge line to get their specific card back in the morning?

How much time does that waste?
 
Mason66 said:
Do they?

So every morning there is a huge line to get their specific card back in the morning?

How much time does that waste?
Click to expand...

People seem to operate just fine when they punch in to work... they could leave them in their desks or lockers as well. The point is not that my solution is the best but rather that there are solutions that can easily solve the problem.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Students are children and thankfully adults make decisions for things that students obviously wouldn't like. Do we let our kids eat ice cream for dinner every night or do we have them eat their vegetables?
Click to expand...

High School kids have entered an age where rebellion is going to happen regardless of what action is taken. You allow the parents to do the parenting and if the kid is found to be in trouble then appropriate action is to be taken. This does not mean you put electronic tracking on them.



You seem to have no idea what unsupervised students can get away with. That's rhetorical.
Click to expand...

Fine its rhetorical then



Punch them in the face? Absolutely clueless. :roll:

The ignorance of this post is simply astounding...
Click to expand...

Ignorance huh? That would imply that I'm uneducated on the subject which I am not. I went through school being bullied. I tried everything else...tell an adult...blah blah blah!

You know what worked? When I decided that enough was enough and I didn't let myself get walked over. I reared back and socked that bully right in the jaw. Guess what? That problem was solved.

Kids have become soft. You are put into situations where defending yourself is a must. I learned that. Whether or not I got my ass kicked was irrelevant because just standing up for myself ended the bullying. They went elsewhere because they knew they would be in a fight with me. Sometimes these situations aren't all candy canes and lollipops. You have to defense yourself at times, and with bullies...it usually works!

When I said cameras....it was security cameras around the entrances and exits...not the bathroom for Gods sake.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom