• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

It seems that culture, traditions, and the joy of Christmas,which a message to atheists and all religions alike, must be muted because some atheists are offended.

It will be a meaner joyless world we'll live in when atheists, "the fastest growing segment of the population" , get their way.

No, it's just a matter that the Christians have been allowed to run rampant over everyone else and are now being reined in and expected to act like a part of society instead of the whole of society. Putting religion back in the churches where it belongs is a great triumph.
 
What I am saying is that using a seasonal christmas display as a time to spout your anti-religious views is in bad taste. Its like standing next to a mall santa and telling the children that he isn't real. Why not put up season greetings messages? Why did that have to go with "religion is a myth"?

If one's message is that seasonal Christmas displays and indeed, religious displays at all, on public property, are a bad idea, how could it be bad taste or bad timing?

And adults ought to realize that God is a fantasy. We wouldn't put up with adults still believing in Santa Claus, it's absurd that adults still believe in God.
 
If one's message is that seasonal Christmas displays and indeed, religious displays at all, on public property, are a bad idea, how could it be bad taste or bad timing?

And adults ought to realize that God is a fantasy. We wouldn't put up with adults still believing in Santa Claus, it's absurd that adults still believe in God.

Well, if an adult wanted to believe in SC, that would be his decision.

Just don't ask me to pay for it or provide your soapbox so you can spread Santa belief in the local park.
 
That's insane. It's like saying don't judge Hitler by the Gestapo.

No. Whats ridicules is your analogy. I will give you +1 for being the first to bring Godwin's law to bear.

The "Gestapo" was a para military secret police org for Nazi Germany controlled by Hitler and his underlings. So you are saying Christians etc are the equivalent of a para military secret police org controlled by God? I know some Nuns who will be surprised with rifle training tomorrow. And you say my statement is insane, lol. You need to step back and take a breath.

For atheists, humanists and agnostics who may not believe in the Christian God, who believe the scriptures were written by men, all they have to go by is "the fan club".

Everyone believes the scriptures were written by men. Not just atheists, humanists and agnostics who may not believe in the Christian God. The literal finger of God did not come down out of heaven and write the Bible. The Bible is many different books written by many different men and in some cases women. So what that has to do with my comment is meaningless. If you don't want to judge God by Christian beliefs, don't. People see God differently, but again you can't judge him by his very human followers.

For all practical purposes, your statement is ridiculous.

I think I have shown who's statement is a giant fallacy at best.
 
Last edited:
On another forum I spent weeks debating with some devout catholics over priestly pedophilia. They insisted it didn't exist and all the accusers were money grubbing gold diggers.

Once you accept the gigantic, vengeful stay puft marshmallow man in the sky, all other cognitive dissonance and insanities become easier to swallow.

View attachment 67138574

Isn't Penn State well known for its support of pedophilia?
 
No, it's just a matter that the Christians have been allowed to run rampant over everyone else and are now being reined in and expected to act like a part of society instead of the whole of society. Putting religion back in the churches where it belongs is a great triumph.

Christians have been running rampant over everyone? I hadn't noticed.

When people celebrate Christmas they are not necessarily celebrating Christianity, though Christianity has had a very powerful and positive influence on western cultures.

Instead it celebrates Peace, Charity and Good Will towards our fellow man.

Until atheists come up with an alternative to that idea I think I'll continue to celebrate Christmas along with all the other people who, Christian and non-Christian alike, share that sentiment.
 
No. Whats ridicules is your analogy. I will give you +1 for being the first to bring Godwin's law to bear.

The "Gestapo" was a para military secret police org. for Nazi Germany controlled by Hitler and his underlings. So you are saying Christians etc are the equivalent of a para military secret police org controlled by God? I know some Nuns who will be surprised with rifle training tomorrow. And you say my statement is insane, lol. You need to step back and take a breath.



Everyone believes the scriptures were written by men. Not just atheists, humanists and agnostics who may not believe in the Christian God. The literal finger of God did not come down out of heaven and write the Bible. The Bible is many different books written by many different men and in some cases women. So what that has to do with my comment is meaningless. If you don't want to judge God by Christian beliefs, don't. People see God differently, but again you can't judge him by his very human followers.



I think I have shown who's statement is a giant fallacy at best.

What I find awe inspiring is your attempt to divorce the actions of millions of Jesus's followers not to mention popes, bishops, priests, ministers, etc. from the god they serve. I have to say I have never seen this position taken by any Christian I have ever known or conversed with online.

As for the bolded portion above I don't know if you're ignorant or just being cheeky. I'm going to guess 95% of christians believe the bible is the inspired word of god.

"If you don't want to judge God by Christian beliefs, don't."

And this phrase is simply incomprehensible. So at this point I have to believe you're either pulling my leg or drinking. I don't care what they believe per se, it's how they act on those beliefs that matter.
 
Last edited:
Christians have been running rampant over everyone? I hadn't noticed.

When people celebrate Christmas they are not necessarily celebrating Christianity, though Christianity has had a very powerful and positive influence on western cultures.

Instead it celebrates Peace, Charity and Good Will towards our fellow man.

Until atheists come up with an alternative to that idea I think I'll continue to celebrate Christmas along with all the other people who, Christian and non-Christian alike, share that sentiment.

So atheist are barred from wishing people Peace, Goodwill, Charity?
 
Well, if an adult wanted to believe in SC, that would be his decision.

Just don't ask me to pay for it or provide your soapbox so you can spread Santa belief in the local park.

Seriously, if someone fanatically believed in Santa Claus, wanted to have Santa belief taught in schools, wanted to have Scientific Santa-ism pushed on everyone, they'd end up in a rubber room. Why doesn't that happen with the religious?
 
So atheist are barred from wishing people Peace, Goodwill, Charity?

Christians have the entitlement copyright on those terms. Ask the Caribbean natives, native Americans, Central American Indians and Incans.
 
What I find awe inspiring is your attempt to divorce the actions of millions of Jesus's followers not to mention popes, bishops, priests, ministers, etc. from the god they serve. I have to say I have never seen this position taken by any Christian I have ever known or conversed with online.

Nothing to be divorced. All men are responsible for there own actions. God will judge, not control us like little Christian robots. Of course this has nothing to do with anything I said.

As for the bolded portion above I don't know if you're ignorant or just being cheeky. I'm going to guess 95% of christians believe the bible is the inspired word of god.

Inspired, lets look at the definition shall we?

in·spired   [in-spahyuhrd] Show IPA adjective
1. aroused, animated, or imbued with the spirit to do something, by or as if by supernatural or divine influence: an inspired poet.
2. resulting from such inspiration: an inspired poem; an inspired plan.
3. inhaled: inspired air.
- Inspired | Define Inspired at Dictionary.com

So please point out where in the definition it says God wrote it, as you are trying desperately to imply that is what Christians think. We know it was written by men, if inspired by God. Even the Bible itself says through dreams, says nothing about forcing anyone to write anything.

"If you don't want to judge God by Christian beliefs, don't."

And this phrase is simply incomprehensible. So at this point I have to believe you're either pulling my leg or drinking.

Again with more personal attacks? Last resort of a limited intellect in the arena of debate, but I digress.

So you are saying you don't understand the concept that no universal view of God exists? Well it's the reason we have...

Catholics, Baptists, Baha'i, Muslims, Pagans of all types including wiccans etc. As many different views of God as there are people on the earth.
 
And adults ought to realize that God is a fantasy. We wouldn't put up with adults still believing in Santa Claus, it's absurd that adults still believe in God.

You aren't obligated to "put up with" it, but I think we can agree that you are obligated to grant groups and individuals the right to so believe with equally little grief as they give you for your beliefs.
 
Christians have been running rampant over everyone? I hadn't noticed.

"Running rampant" might be a bit much if you were to take into consideration places where religious extremists really do run rampant over the population -- but it is beyond denial that Christians have been very politically active here in the United States, many Christians go out of their way to paint our nation as historically Christian, and many laws have been proposed and/or passed under the guise that the United States is a Christian nation.
 
The space for the displays in Santa Monica were rented / paid for by the groups / individuals who put those displays up.

If that's so, then the atheists have no case at all, do they?

Why don't atheists pick out a holiday of their own to promote their belief system? December 25 is taken already. It may originally have belonged to the Pagans, but Christians preempted it centuries ago. It really shouldn't matter, as there are still 364 and a quarter other days to choose from.
 
Seriously, if someone fanatically believed in Santa Claus, wanted to have Santa belief taught in schools, wanted to have Scientific Santa-ism pushed on everyone, they'd end up in a rubber room. Why doesn't that happen with the religious?

There you have one major difference between a belief and a religion -- organization and influence.
 
If that's so, then the atheists have no case at all, do they?

Why don't atheists pick out a holiday of their own to promote their belief system? December 25 is taken already. It may originally have belonged to the Pagans, but Christians preempted it centuries ago. It really shouldn't matter, as there are still 364 and a quarter other days to choose from.

I'm not aware of an atheist challenge in court to the now-banned displays in Santa Monica. So far as I'm aware, the only "case" to come out of this came at the behest of Christian organization.
 
Christians have the entitlement copyright on those terms. Ask the Caribbean natives, native Americans, Central American Indians and Incans.

No, there is no copyright on the sentiment but few others express it.

If atheists have an alternate message on how to treat their fellow man, I'd be pleased to hear it.
 
The space for the displays in Santa Monica were rented / paid for by the groups / individuals who put those displays up.

The City of Santa Monica cited financial reasons for discontinuing the event, I'm guessing the cost of administering and operating it far exceeded the rentals taken in.

So yes, the tax payers of SM were paying for it.
 
The City of Santa Monica cited financial reasons for discontinuing the event, I'm guessing the cost of administering and operating it far exceeded the rentals taken in.

So yes, the tax payers of SM were paying for it.

When you've got more than a guess, let us know.
 
"Running rampant" might be a bit much if you were to take into consideration places where religious extremists really do run rampant over the population -- but it is beyond denial that Christians have been very politically active here in the United States, many Christians go out of their way to paint our nation as historically Christian, and many laws have been proposed and/or passed under the guise that the United States is a Christian nation.

Yes, Christians have been very active in The United States since it inception, and the country has been the better for it.
 
The City of Santa Monica cited financial reasons for discontinuing the event, I'm guessing the cost of administering and operating it far exceeded the rentals taken in.

So yes, the tax payers of SM were paying for it.

From the OP:

Churches are going to federal court to reclaim their freedom of speech after the city of Santa Monica, Calif., decided to end a nearly 60-year tradition of having Christian displays of the nativity in a public park due to an uproar caused by atheists' anti-God signs.
Read more at Atheist Action Halts Calif. Nativity Display; Churches Go to Court

So, was the issue that taxpayers were losing money, or that atheists objected to the Christmas displays? Is the war between atheists and Christians over December 25 real, or is it just a matter of the city not wanting to rent space because they were losing money? I'm getting confused here. I'm not even sure what the current score really is.
 
Nothing to be divorced. All men are responsible for there own actions. God will judge, not control us like little Christian robots. Of course this has nothing to do with anything I said.



Inspired, lets look at the definition shall we?

in·spired   [in-spahyuhrd] Show IPA adjective
1. aroused, animated, or imbued with the spirit to do something, by or as if by supernatural or divine influence: an inspired poet.
2. resulting from such inspiration: an inspired poem; an inspired plan.
3. inhaled: inspired air.
- Inspired | Define Inspired at Dictionary.com

So please point out where in the definition it says God wrote it, as you are trying desperately to imply that is what Christians think. We know it was written by men, if inspired by God. Even the Bible itself says through dreams, says nothing about forcing anyone to write anything.



Again with more personal attacks? Last resort of a limited intellect in the arena of debate, but I digress.

So you are saying you don't understand the concept that no universal view of God exists? Well it's the reason we have...

Catholics, Baptists, Baha'i, Muslims, Pagans of all types including wiccans etc. As many different views of God as there are people on the earth.

Did your team lose today?
 
Back
Top Bottom