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The bullies win again[W710; 739]

Lutherf said:
Where are you getting that? The girl had naked pictured of her distributed across the web. Presumably she was a minor when that happened so it's kiddie porn. Furthermore she was beaten and left in a ditch. That's assault.

Did you watch the video?
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Are you going to explain to me or my son how he should have just toughed it out?
 
Patrickt said:
I'm sorry but only one person is responsible for this suicide.
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And yes, just as no one dies from lack of health insurance.

Typical conservative myopia.
 
wolfman24 said:
Are you going to explain to me or my son how he should have just toughed it out?
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I believe that my words were "deal with the issue" and "stand up for yourself". "Tough it out" is neither of those.

Step one - Recognize that there is a problem. Bullies gravitate towards problems like moths to a flame so avoiding this step leads to certain doom.
Step two - Figure out whether the problem is something that can be fixed or not. If it can be fixed then fix it. If it can't be fixed then it's a fact of life and the affected parties need to learn how to cope with the problem. As far as your particular issues I really can't give any specific advice because because I don't know the whole situation.
Step three - Teach the kid how to cope. I have seen people with incredible odds against them do incredible things (Woman born with no arms becomes first pilot to fly plane using only feet)
Step four - Have faith in your child that they can overcome their disability and don't have to be a victim to it. Faith is an incredibly powerful force but you have to really, honestly and completely believe in it. Faith is the key to making the impossible possible.
 
EVERYONE must know how cruel kids can be. They can be ruthless and much more cruel than most adults would ever dare or want to be. Perhaps some children DO have poor coping skills, but a lot of times these kids will hide these kinds of things from the parents and teachers because they are embarrassed or what not (I didn't watch the complete video so I don't know if this girl sought help), and kids will make mistakes. They are only human beings. I just think some people are being rather harsh considering this was just a kid. I don't think she was "selfish" in the sense that some are making it sound. I think kids are only capable of so much critical-thinking skills, and they sometimes DO not realize the finality of what they are doing.
 
How does "private schools are a lot better" suddenly become "kids in private schools never get bullied?"

I didn't say that.

I said private schools are BETTER. Most private schools have a better teacher to student ratio, so kids don't fall through the cracks as easily.


Van Basten said:
So, kids don't get bullied in private schools now? :lamo
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I'm so glad I went through my teen years before facebook, twitter et al. I can't imagine how some of these young folks are tortured today. I think many of us older folks forget that for most teenagers their whole world is social status i.e. fitting in. When people can attack that publicly like they can nowadays it has to be harsh. I don't really have an answer for it because the only answer I know is enough life experience to teach you it's not a big deal and to ingore a**holes.
 
John.NoseTip said:
I'm so glad I went through my teen years before facebook, twitter et al. I can't imagine how some of these young folks are tortured today. I think many of us older folks forget that for most teenagers their whole world is social status i.e. fitting in. When people can attack that publicly like they can nowadays it has to be harsh. I don't really have an answer for it because the only answer I know is enough life experience to teach you it's not a big deal and to ingore a**holes.
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That certainly is a change.

Back in the day your social ranking was pretty subjective but today they've got numbers to prove it! I figure that as a parent one of the primary jobs would be to get kids to understand that the online world doesn't necessarily indicate what's happening in the real world.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Maybe I am missing something here, are we talking about garden variety bullyies or street gangs. They are two totally diffrent breed of fish.
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Assault is assault.

The same with threats of assault and slandering others.

I see no reason why these things are illegal at 18 but legal at 17.


And to suggest that adults should just sit back and allow people to be brutalized by groups of individuals just because they are in school is crazy, IMO.

People are committing suicide over this and you think you should leave them alone?

Amazing.
 
Lutherf said:
I believe that my words were "deal with the issue" and "stand up for yourself". "Tough it out" is neither of those.

Step one - Recognize that there is a problem. Bullies gravitate towards problems like moths to a flame so avoiding this step leads to certain doom.
Step two - Figure out whether the problem is something that can be fixed or not. If it can be fixed then fix it. If it can't be fixed then it's a fact of life and the affected parties need to learn how to cope with the problem. As far as your particular issues I really can't give any specific advice because because I don't know the whole situation.
Step three - Teach the kid how to cope. I have seen people with incredible odds against them do incredible things (Woman born with no arms becomes first pilot to fly plane using only feet)
Step four - Have faith in your child that they can overcome their disability and don't have to be a victim to it. Faith is an incredibly powerful force but you have to really, honestly and completely believe in it. Faith is the key to making the impossible possible.
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Ok but how does a person with Aspergers who has no ability to "overcome" his disability overcome it. these are developmentally disabled persons who do not by their disability have the ability to defend themselves either verbally or otherwise. You are apparently not aware or do not realize/understand that there ARE people out there who cannot stand up for themselves or deal with the concept let alone the reality of bullying and when the school system not only fosters this behavior in students but in teachers as well as in my sons case, how is he to COPE? No one stood up for him NO ONE, No one helped him they told him to suck it up and be a man or ridiculed him because of his emotional responses which were the only ones he had.
You may believe that faith makes all thing possible and that is fine for you. But the real world of the developmentally disabled has no such assurances. The only hope he had was the maybe someday this would end. the only faith he had was that he had faith is would not end. The school and school system also had faith that they could get away with doing this to my son and allowing it to happen without consequences. And they were right. I would like to mention another factor but the only thing I will say is that this happened in the south. You can draw from that whatever conclusions you wish. Unfortunately this is the rule here rather than the exception.

My point is please realize that there are persons out there who do not fit into your mold or concept of these issues and that they are helpless in environments such as these. I have literally made myself sick trying to get my son out of that sitiation and as a result I am no longer able to work. My wife has faired just slightly better.

Your 'facts of life" are not within his comprehension and can never be. If a subject like this comes up again I hope you keep my words in your mind.
 
Connery said:
Those who acted against her as described should be charged for their crimes. It is that simple.
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For encouraging someone to kill themselves? So basically the crime is for suggestion? Where exactly is the right violation in that? I would very like to know when exactly we all started to think it was fine to punish people for suggestion.
 
wolfman24 said:
What is really sad is that down here the kids are bullied by their teachers and nothing is done. My son experienced many cases of this when he was in 8,9,10th grade and I complained to the principal NOTHING, the County school system Nothing, the superintendant of schools (nothing).
The year before we got here a child walked into his middle school class, pulled out a gun and blew his brains out in front of everyone. Did the system change NO.
They do not have anyone person in middle or high schools here that the kids can go and just talk to and only 1 psych for every 9 upper level schools.

Alot of talk is done here and elsewhere but from what I see little is being done.

I am perfectly aware that bullying has been around since forever but there are effective ways to lessen it. Fortunately when we lived in SW Michigan the school system there had its act together and thus the level was kept to a minimum.

Very sad.
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Why weren't you up there kicking somone's ass?
 
DA60 said:
People are committing suicide over this and you think you should leave them alone?

Amazing.
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So what if people are killing themselves over suggestion? People encourage weakness in people all the time and sometimes it leads to people acting irrationally towards themselves and/or others, but people are still responsible for what they do with their lives. Why should we punish suggestion when suggestion isn't actually doing anything but playing on a weakness?
 
John.NoseTip said:
I'm so glad I went through my teen years before facebook, twitter et al. I can't imagine how some of these young folks are tortured today. I think many of us older folks forget that for most teenagers their whole world is social status i.e. fitting in. When people can attack that publicly like they can nowadays it has to be harsh. I don't really have an answer for it because the only answer I know is enough life experience to teach you it's not a big deal and to ingore a**holes.
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The great thing about the Internet is that you can easily walk away from the screen or ignore people that are rude.
 
Naturally it wouldn't be mentioned in the news, but if you have a child around high school age, you are aware that the number of white children, both boys and girls, committing suicide either in high school or immediately out of high school is almost beyond belief. This is a new phenomenon in the United States. Traditionally children did not commit suicide because they always had so much hope for a better life in the future. Who knows what the reason for this present tragic state of affairs is, perhaps because there isn't much hope in liberal America, no place to go, you're trapped and the fact that in pop culture, high school viciousness goes on forever, even past the age of thirty. Kids don't grow up anymore. Certainly their horizons are not expanded in public school and they are taught to be ashamed of their race and their country, even ashamed of their parents. Plus the focus of our schools has shifted to worship of the 3rd world races and "education" is at the lowest levels.
 
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Patrickt said:
I'm sorry but only one person is responsible for this suicide.
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On the contrary, there's plenty of blame to go around. The girl deserves some of it of course, she did make some bad decisions. But her parents certainly deserve a share of the blame for not helping and supporting her as much as they should. The guy blackmailing her definitely deserves some, as do the other kids that bullied her. The school may deserve part of the blame for not doing enough to stop it. And the police absolutely deserve some of the blame, since they apparently did nothing about the guy who was blackmailing the girl, and had a picture of a topless 7th grader as his facebook profile picture.

Very rarely is this sort of thing the fault of only one person.
 
Henrin said:
For encouraging someone to kill themselves? So basically the crime is for suggestion? Where exactly is the right violation in that? I would very like to know when exactly we all started to think it was fine to punish people for suggestion.
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No the crime is very specific. Kindly read what I wrote.
 
Patrickt said:
I'm sorry but only one person is responsible for this suicide.
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Ultimately yes, but we should be more vigilant in looking for specific warning signs that people are troubled and try to help. It is a failure on many people's shoulders when something like this happens, but in a sense you are right. Nobody forced her to do this. Let me just reinforce that her family, friends, teachers, and peers should have noticed she need help and offered some assistance.
 
Many seem to be missing the triad of issues with this suicide;

The first issue, is the level of harassment kids (<12 years) and young adults (>13 years) are being subjected to. Group mentality is exacerbating this problem, much like a darker, more violent, and twisted version of the Stanford prison experiment.

The second, which I think the pro-bullies are hitting on, in their own cold, callous way, is the emotional and mental strength of today's youth. Many get beaten down, retaliate and, come out fine. How are our children coming into today's world so defeated before they are old enough to even pursue careers, or attend college?

Third, why does the government mandate our children, by threat of criminal penalty, be placed in institutions that they will willfully neglect to ensure our children are safe in? Why do we allow our educators to neglect the responsibility of ensuring our children's safety whilst they are in their care. We put parents in prison for grievous neglect, and even less. The state mandates our children go to these places, and then they fail to protect them.
 
What is "Bullying"? It is a highly subjective term. Is saying anything I don't like for you to say about me "bullying" even if it is true? At what point one's right to express their opinions curtailed by a "No Bullying" rule? Are we to only agree with and say nicest things possible to all people under the possibility that we might innocently say something that triggers the listener's own internal issues or crack their eggshell egos? Is it like porn, we just know it when we see it? I don't have answers to these questions.
 
apdst said:
Why weren't you up there kicking somone's ass?
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I WAS I was fighting an institutionalized system every day for 4 years. It ruined my health. I am no longer able to work and have serious health problems.

ANd you know what . NOTHING has changed. This farking school system is still destroying kids.
 
Ray410 said:
Naturally it wouldn't be mentioned in the news, but if you have a child around high school age, you are aware that the number of white children, both boys and girls, committing suicide either in high school or immediately out of high school is almost beyond belief. This is a new phenomenon in the United States. Traditionally children did not commit suicide because they always had so much hope for a better life in the future. Who knows what the reason for this present tragic state of affairs is, perhaps because there isn't much hope in liberal America, no place to go, you're trapped and the fact that in pop culture, high school viciousness goes on forever, even past the age of thirty. Kids don't grow up anymore. Certainly their horizons are not expanded in public school and they are taught to be ashamed of their race and their country, even ashamed of their parents. Plus the focus of our schools has shifted to worship of the 3rd world races and "education" is at the lowest levels.
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White children?

What the heck does the amount of melanin in someone's skin have to do with it?

Or are you just racist?
 
Henrin said:
So what if people are killing themselves over suggestion? People encourage weakness in people all the time and sometimes it leads to people acting irrationally towards themselves and/or others, but people are still responsible for what they do with their lives. Why should we punish suggestion when suggestion isn't actually doing anything but playing on a weakness?
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Did you even read about this girl?

We are not just talking about 'suggestion'.

We are talking about assault, blackmail and a host of other illegal things...let alone all the apparent cruelty.


And if someone is abused enough, their suicide is no longer just their responsibility. It is also the responsibility of those that committed that abuse.

You disagree? You are wrong...end of story.


Have a nice day.
 
Henrin said:
The great thing about the Internet is that you can easily walk away from the screen or ignore people that are rude.
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Yeah but everyone in your school is gossiping about you and you are 14 years old it can be rather hard to ignore.
 
wolfman24 said:
Ok but how does a person with Aspergers who has no ability to "overcome" his disability overcome it. these are developmentally disabled persons who do not by their disability have the ability to defend themselves either verbally or otherwise. You are apparently not aware or do not realize/understand that there ARE people out there who cannot stand up for themselves or deal with the concept let alone the reality of bullying and when the school system not only fosters this behavior in students but in teachers as well as in my sons case, how is he to COPE? No one stood up for him NO ONE, No one helped him they told him to suck it up and be a man or ridiculed him because of his emotional responses which were the only ones he had.
You may believe that faith makes all thing possible and that is fine for you. But the real world of the developmentally disabled has no such assurances. The only hope he had was the maybe someday this would end. the only faith he had was that he had faith is would not end. The school and school system also had faith that they could get away with doing this to my son and allowing it to happen without consequences. And they were right. I would like to mention another factor but the only thing I will say is that this happened in the south. You can draw from that whatever conclusions you wish. Unfortunately this is the rule here rather than the exception.

My point is please realize that there are persons out there who do not fit into your mold or concept of these issues and that they are helpless in environments such as these. I have literally made myself sick trying to get my son out of that sitiation and as a result I am no longer able to work. My wife has faired just slightly better.

Your 'facts of life" are not within his comprehension and can never be. If a subject like this comes up again I hope you keep my words in your mind.
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Wolf, I don't know how you are going to take this comment so I want to preface it by saying that it's only meant with the utmost sincerity and hope that both you and your son can get past this problem.

The way I'm reading things, Wolf, you've got a laser like focus on all the things that your son can't do because of his disease. I'd suggest spending a bit more energy on the things that he can do as I suspect that concentrating on those areas will bring both you and him much more benefit than banging your heads against something that you can't fix.
 
Lutherf said:
Wolf, I don't know how you are going to take this comment so I want to preface it by saying that it's only meant with the utmost sincerity and hope that both you and your son can get past this problem.

The way I'm reading things, Wolf, you've got a laser like focus on all the things that your son can't do because of his disease. I'd suggest spending a bit more energy on the things that he can do as I suspect that concentrating on those areas will bring both you and him much more benefit than banging your heads against something that you can't fix.
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I appreciate your sentiment but you have not gotten it. My "laser like" focus is getting my son and the millions of others like him the help they need.

As I said in my post what he could do he was able to do in Michigan because they gave a ****. When we came down here for a variety of reasons they did not SO because the law said I had to keep him in school until he was X years old we had to fight an entrenched enemy who had superior numbers, ammunition and the high ground. We tried to get him into private schools that we could not afford but they would not take him because he did not meet "thier needs". As soon as we could we got him out and were able to find a situation which allowed him to graduate from an accredited high school with a regular diploma something that would not have been possible here.
You seem to be focusing on those parts of my post dealing with negatives. My point to you was really not about MY son, but that there are kids out there who do not meet your profile and need realtime help which they are not getting. Until "you" realize this or go out an experience it for yourself you cannot understand the depth of this issue.

BTW Autism is not a disease as I have stated, its a genetic disability and they are NOT the same thing. As a result my son cannot be "cured" No more than a person who is born with one limb can grow a new one. the prosthesis he needs is a support system in schools which recognizes that he has abiilities and is willing to help him with that. When the system does not give a **** there is no prosthesis for him.

Can you see that? If you cannot with all respect I see no point in discussing this further.
 
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