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You’ll Need an ID to Prove You’re a Democrat but Not to Vote

Μολὼν λαβέ;1060876093 said:
Constitutional rights are granted to US citizens. How would one prove citizenship or identity without an ID?

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The only government issued ID issued to citizens only is a passport, driver's licenses can be issued to non-citzens. So clear since everyone doesn't have a passport there are ways to identity someone as being a citizen without a photo ID.
 
Arbo said:
No, it's not amazing when someone points out your spin. It's actually quite common.
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Except there first has to be the spin to point out. What I accurately demonstrated was that the phonies pretending to be outraged at this are full of it.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1060876093 said:
Constitutional rights are granted to US citizens. How would one prove citizenship or identity without an ID?


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You do that when you REGISTER to vote. They then match your signature on the day of the casting of your ballot. No photo ID is necessary nor has it been for the forty plus years I have voted.
 
Cons are just mad that they can't go to the Dem covention and throw things at cameramen. You know, like the liberal plants at the Repub convention (the Con Con?)
 
haymarket said:
I just looked in my handy dandy copy of the official US Constitution. It mentions the right to vote five times in five different places. Sadly, it never mentions the right to attend a political convention.

Equating opposition to an effort to diminsh and supress the Constitutional right to vote in pubic elections with an effort to maintain security at a private function is ludicrous and outright ridiculous.
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Actually I was contrasting the ability of poor, minority and elderly democratic convention goers to obtain a photo ID with the inability of poor, minority and elderly democratic voters to obtain a photo ID. It would seem safe to assume that the difficulties, if they exist, would be equal for each group. It would be interesting to find out how many people werer turned away for not having ID.
 
Harshaw said:
And what's not mentioned is the assistance offered to these people to get one.
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Even with such assistance, chances are many of them will not get the proper ID because they don't know about it, or because they don't have time to wait in line during business hours (when many people work), or because they can't get to a facility to get such assistance. Furthermore, it is EXTREMELY unlikely that even if all registered voters were somehow notified of this and made the commitment to get the proper ID, that states would even be able to process them all by November.

And once AGAIN, there is no evidence that the "problem" this purports to solve actually exists at all.
 
jerry7 said:
Actually I was contrasting the ability of poor, minority and elderly democratic convention goers to obtain a photo ID with the inability of poor, minority and elderly democratic voters to obtain a photo ID. It would seem safe to assume that the difficulties, if they exist, would be equal for each group. It would be interesting to find out how many people werer turned away for not having ID.
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Not just anybody can go to a political party's convention. You have to be elected as a delegate. You're comparing apples and kiwi fruits.
 
rocket88 said:
Not just anybody can go to a political party's convention. You have to be elected as a delegate. You're comparing apples and kiwi fruits.
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There's 5500 delegates and about 400 alternates. There's 21,000 people expected at Obama's speech in the convention hall. So much for apples and kiwis.
 
Kandahar said:
Even with such assistance, chances are many of them will not get the proper ID because they don't know about it, or because they don't have time to wait in line during business hours (when many people work), or because they can't get to a facility to get such assistance.
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Yet they can successfully vote?


Furthermore, it is EXTREMELY unlikely that even if all registered voters were somehow notified of this and made the commitment to get the proper ID, that states would even be able to process them all by November.
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That depends on when you start, does it not?

And once AGAIN, there is no evidence that the "problem" this purports to solve actually exists at all.
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Oh, since when did evidence of an actual problem stop, say, Democrats from pushing forth a Really Good Idea That Just Makes Sense(TM)? I doubt very much this is the source of much real objection.
 
Harshaw said:
Yet they can successfully vote?
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Sure, because 1) the polling place might be closer than the DMV or wherever they get their ID, 2) it usually doesn't take as long, 3) many people vote at some point other than during business hours on Election Day, 4) everyone interested in voting knows they need to vote whereas they don't all know they need voter ID.

That depends on when you start, does it not?
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Yes, but many of these states are at nowhere near enough capacity to process all these voter IDs by Election Day.

Oh, since when did evidence of an actual problem stop, say, Democrats from pushing forth a Really Good Idea That Just Makes Sense(TM)? I doubt very much this is the source of much real objection.
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I notice you opted to bash the evil liberals again, instead of providing evidence of an actual problem that voter ID will stop. Not surprising. :roll:
 
Kandahar said:
Sure, because 1) the polling place might be closer than the DMV or wherever they get their ID, 2) it usually doesn't take as long, 3) many people vote at some point other than during business hours on Election Day, 4) everyone interested in voting knows they need to vote whereas they don't all know they need voter ID.
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Oh, come on. That's weak. You must know that.


Yes, but many of these states are at nowhere near enough capacity to process all these voter IDs by Election Day.
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One more time -- that depends on when you get started, doesn't it? Besides, it doesn't have to apply to this election. And if it does, the states which have put it in place got started long ago.

This objection goes away completely if it doesn't take effect until, say, 2014. And that's even taking for the sake of argument that it's actually a problem. Do you have evidence -- you know, the same kind of evidence you're demanding to show that voter fraud is a problem; real evidence -- which indicates it is, or are you just assuming it's likely because it seems reasonable?


I notice you opted to bash the evil liberals again, instead of providing evidence of an actual problem that voter ID will stop. Not surprising. :roll:
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There was a point to it. :shrug:
 
Although there are differences between the two I do think it is a pretty good example of the hypocrisy in politics or An Inconvenient Principle. For those of you who have never heard it youtube "Love Me I'm A Liberal". It's an old Phil Ochs song that's been updated many times over the years. Written over 40 years ago and the only thing that changes are the names
 
Voter ID = Common Sense. Voter ID is an excellent idea. It is easy to get an ID. It costs $25-$35 at the RMV for a photo ID. Preventing fraud is ALWAYS a good idea even if some people just don't get it at all.
 
ChrisL said:
Voter ID = Common Sense. Voter ID is an excellent idea. It is easy to get an ID. It costs $25-$35 at the RMV for a photo ID. Preventing fraud is ALWAYS a good idea even if some people just don't get it at all.
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25-35 dollars is a few weeks food for quite a lot of people these days. While I agree voter ID is common sense, the fact that the present attempts by the GOP is only done to marginalize people of colour or/and in poverty.. only makes it a problem. Give the voter ID out for free... then no problem, but we both know that wont go down well for the GOP.
 
It makes perfect sense to have to prove one's identity at the polls. Otherwise, they guy who shows up and is told that he has already voted will be denied his right to vote. This right must be protected, and confirming identity is a common sense way to protect this constitutionally guaranteed right.
 
PeteEU said:
25-35 dollars is a few weeks food for quite a lot of people these days. While I agree voter ID is common sense, the fact that the present attempts by the GOP is only done to marginalize people of colour or/and in poverty.. only makes it a problem. Give the voter ID out for free... then no problem, but we both know that wont go down well for the GOP.
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If it would cost 25-30 dollars every week or every month, I might agree. It would be a one-time cost though, and like our drivers licenses renewed every few years, so certainly not an undue burden.
 
Federalist said:
It makes perfect sense to have to prove one's identity at the polls. Otherwise, they guy who shows up and is told that he has already voted will be denied his right to vote. This right must be protected, and confirming identity is a common sense way to protect this constitutionally guaranteed right.
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By all means do present verifiable evidence of this problem.
 
Federalist said:
Are you contending that this could not happen?
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That's what they always contend... then they rail on about how next to non-existant the problem is.

The history of Chicago doesn't seem to mean anything to them, the history of the WORLD doesn't seem to mean anything to them. Must make life 'easy' when you can ignore the lessons of the past and have the mentality of 'that will NEVER happen to us' as they do.
 
Arbo said:
That's what they always contend... then they rail on about how next to non-existant the problem is.

The history of Chicago doesn't seem to mean anything to them, the history of the WORLD doesn't seem to mean anything to them. Must make life 'easy' when you can ignore the lessons of the past and have the mentality of 'that will NEVER happen to us' as they do.
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I'd rather eliminate all risk that someone will have his constitutionally guaranteed right to vote stolen by an impostor.
 
ChrisL said:
Voter ID = Common Sense. Voter ID is an excellent idea. It is easy to get an ID. It costs $25-$35 at the RMV for a photo ID. Preventing fraud is ALWAYS a good idea even if some people just don't get it at all.
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The problem I have with it is that it solves nothing. The real fraud comes with absentee ballots, and nobody wants to check those IDs
 
rocket88 said:
The problem I have with it is that it solves nothing. The real fraud comes with absentee ballots, and nobody wants to check those IDs
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They should also be checked. I think it is prudent to use every measure that is not unreasonable at our disposable to prevent any occurrence of fraud. Requiring certain identification to cast a ballot is not unreasonable.
 
PeteEU said:
Give the voter ID out for free... then no problem, but we both know that wont go down well for the GOP.
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And on what basis do you "know" that?
 
Harshaw said:
And on what basis do you "know" that?
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Actions of the GOP in individual states. They could implement these ID programs for free.. but they have not. Instead they have put in road blocks that have made getting an ID cost money or you have to jump through more loopholes than Romney uses to get his 13% tax rate.

Point is, it is not so "simple" to get such IDs that are accepted during voting and those that will get hurt by such laws are more than often... democratic voters.
 
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