• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Body of 11 Year Old Christian Found Mutilated, Burned in Pakistan

That's absolutely correct. By way of analogy: the Christian Bible, particularly the Old Testament, includes a lot of historical tribal customs which, while accepted practice at the time, will get you a well deserved 25 to life if you try to practice them today. About 500 years ago we entered a period we call the Enlightenment where thinkers examined the old writings and tried to separate the tribal customs from the spiritual guidance.

Islam, particularly in the Middle East, is badly in need of such a reformation.
Wanted: A Muslim, Reformation.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/54964-wanted-muslim-reformation.html

Here in the US we do have moderate Muslims, and I have been particularly impressed by Zuhdi Jasser whenever I've seen him interviewed. And as you noted, the violent extremists cannot be ignored.
The wonderful Zuhdi Jasser is basically an Outcast from the American Islamic community. As are all true reformers.
same string:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/54964-wanted-muslim-reformation-18.html#post1059214500

His video 'The Third Jihad'
[video=google;-864522917532871834]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-864522917532871834#[/video]
 
Last edited:
I answered showing it was in many (a Large amount worldwide) cases committed n the Name of Islam alone.
You listed some incidents apparently based on what is reported in mainstream media but that doesn't address the basis of my questions. I'm certainly not denying such incidents occur or than they occur most commonly justified in the name of Islam. The fact remains that however many incidents you list, they will represent the actions of a tiny minority of the millions of individual Muslims in the world and a tiny minority of the acts of violence in the world, justified for all sorts of different reasons.

There is a major issue with aspects of Islam, but Islam as a whole is not the problem. Most extreme actions will have a whole series of inter-related causes - religion has never caused anything to happen (good or bad) on it's own. There are also plenty of other problems in the world.

If you're "challenging" go right ahead. So far it's mere protestation. You put up -0- in all your posts.
That's because I'm not challenging your facts, only your interpretation and presentation of them.

Where's the beef?
The contempt, even hatred, implied or promoted against everyone and everything in any way related to Islam on the basis of the actions of a minority (however large it might be).

The Muslim sat across from me still hasn't murdered anyone.
 
Last edited:
There is a major issue with aspects of Islam, but Islam as a whole is not the problem. Most extreme actions will have a whole series of inter-related causes - religion has never caused anything to happen (good or bad) on it's own. There are also plenty of other problems in the world.

Religious Islam is not much of a problem except for those sects which treat women like cattle. Political Islam is another story, a pathology that will create misery and destruction wherever it is allowed to flourish.
 
Religious Islam is not much of a problem except for those sects which treat women like cattle. Political Islam is another story, a pathology that will create misery and destruction wherever it is allowed to flourish.
Literal Religous Islam IS political Islam/Islamism.
Islam is a Religio-political system, not just a religion. ie, Sharia for just one large overlap. It exists in varying degrees in almost every Islamic country including 'moderate' ones.

Honest Joe is not even in the discussion and never was. He makes no claims, presents no refutation. We understand HJ, there are many "it's just a few bad apples every religion has" auto-PCers here who make the same or Similar wrong protestation. Shattered again.
 
Last edited:
Honest Joe is not even in the discussion and never was. He makes no claims, presents no refutation. We understand HJ, there are many "it's just a few bad apples every religion has" auto-PCers here who make the same or Similar wrong protestation. Shattered again.

Just another copy/paste job, 'only changing name/difference' otherwise the same old diatribe. Nothing to see here from mbig. No substantive point(s) made, only alarmist rhetoric.

Paul
 
Honest Joe is not even in the discussion and never was. He makes no claims, presents no refutation. We understand HJ, there are many "it's just a few bad apples every religion has" auto-PCers here who make the same or Similar wrong protestation. Shattered again.
You don't understand me at all since I'm not saying what you're claiming. You've clearly reached a predetermined conclusion with zero interest in thinking beyond your preconceptions I'm not going to waste any more time on you.
 
IMO, the extremists (who are more than likely preaching at mosques and acting in leadership roles) in the ME keep the hatred going on and on and on because they want to keep the people occupied with hating everyone else in the world, thinking everyone else is holding them back. If they keep the people busy hating the outside world, then they won't be so aware of what their own leaders do. These dictators in these countries are soooo disgustingly rich, and they let the people go without.
 
I will expect the Muslim world to be crime free when the Christian world is crime free.

Look at our dreadful headlines about missing and murdered children.

When the last time you heard about a muslim being killed by a christian in the West?
 
When the last time you heard about a muslim being killed by a christian in the West?

And you should add, "because of his or her religious beliefs."
 
A 15 year old girl was abducted in Columbia, SC last week.. They have her killer and her blood stains but no body.

The 53 killer has a prior record for violence and kidnapping.

So he said he killed her for Jesus?
 
IMO, the extremists (who are more than likely preaching at mosques and acting in leadership roles) in the ME keep the hatred going on and on and on because they want to keep the people occupied with hating everyone else in the world, thinking everyone else is holding them back. If they keep the people busy hating the outside world, then they won't be so aware of what their own leaders do. These dictators in these countries are soooo disgustingly rich, and they let the people go without.

Agreed, just as Orwell described in 1984.
 
Religion doesn't kill people. People kill people.

Muslim people murder Christians, Jews, and those who do not follow their evil path.
 
Funny... I've got lots of muslim friends who haven't murdered me... are they just biding their time?

Not all Muslims are terrorists, but the vast majority of terrorists are Muslim. Do you disagree?
 
It depends on the context and definitions, but we can certainly say "not necessarily". For example;

All Terrorists are Muslims...Except the 94% that Aren't | loonwatch.com

From your link:
On the FBI’s official website, there exists a chronological list of all terrorist attacks committed on U.S. soil from the year 1980 all the way to 2005.

I'm not particularly concerned about "terrorist attacks committed on US soil" between 1980 and 2000 (except for the terrorism committed by the FBI and ATF at Ruby Ridge and Waco, which are not on the list). Worldwide, the current threat is from Islamist fanatics.
 
I'm not particularly concerned about "terrorist attacks committed on US soil" between 1980 and 2000 (except for the terrorism committed by the FBI and ATF at Ruby Ridge and Waco, which are not on the list).
Why not? Because they don't fit your preconceptions?

What about figures for Europe instead? EUobserver.com / Justice & Home Affairs / Home-grown terrorism rising in EU, Europol says
religion - Are most terrorists Muslim? - Skeptics

Worldwide, the current threat is from Islamist fanatics.
As I said, it depends on context and definitions but it is clearly wrong to make the unqualified statement that "the vast majority of terrorists are Muslim".
 
Why not? Because they don't fit your preconceptions?

What about figures for Europe instead? EUobserver.com / Justice & Home Affairs / Home-grown terrorism rising in EU, Europol says
religion - Are most terrorists Muslim? - Skeptics

As I said, it depends on context and definitions but it is clearly wrong to make the unqualified statement that "the vast majority of terrorists are Muslim".


So what other types do you group under the predominantly terrorist group, white, middle class conservative, gun-owning, anti-abortion, born-again Christians?
 
So what other types do you group under the predominantly terrorist group, white, middle class conservative, gun-owning, anti-abortion, born-again Christians?
I'm not defining any group of people as predominantly terrorists. There is a world of difference between the statements "Most X are terrorists" and "Most terrorists are X". The former, which your statement implies, isn't worthy of a moments thought, regardless of the group in question (not withstanding truisms). It is only the latter we're addressing here at all.

I'm suggesting that in general terms no single group of people can be identified as being "the vast majority of terrorists", and I think the variety of statistics I've linked support that position. There are plenty of Islamic terrorists but there are plenty of separatist, extreme left-wing/right-wing and "freedom fighter" terrorists too.

Islamic terrorism is most certainly an issue to address but it's one that should be addressed openly and honestly and shouldn't be at the complete exclusion of all other forms or terrorism.
 
Islamic terrorism is most certainly an issue to address but it's one that should be addressed openly and honestly and shouldn't be at the complete exclusion of all other forms or terrorism.

Nor should "all other forms or terrorism" be allowed to distract us from the more serious problem of Islamist terrorists.
 
Why not? Because they don't fit your preconceptions?

What about figures for Europe instead? EUobserver.com / Justice & Home Affairs / Home-grown terrorism rising in EU, Europol says
religion - Are most terrorists Muslim? - Skeptics

As I said, it depends on context and definitions but it is clearly wrong to make the unqualified statement that "the vast majority of terrorists are Muslim".

What is actually quite clearly wrong is when intellectually dishonest people frame the sample size in such a way as to intentionally ignore the vast majority of incidents, while doing so out of some sort of need to defend -- and for no other reason than they have predetermined such a defense is necessary.
 
What is actually quite clearly wrong is when intellectually dishonest people frame the sample size in such a way as to intentionally ignore the vast majority of incidents, while doing so out of some sort of need to defend -- and for no other reason than they have predetermined such a defense is necessary.
I not defending anything more than you are. You made a simplistic, unconditional statement that "the vast majority of terrorists are Muslim" and I am challenging the generalisation.

I'm not claiming there aren't lots of Islamic terrorists, especially in specific regions, that much of that terrorism isn't large scale and serious nor that nothing should be done to address it. All I am suggesting is that your statement's factual correctness is at best hugely depended on context and definitions so is really too generalistic to have any real meaning.

If you don't like the sampling of the statistics I found to demonstrate the range and variety of terrorism world-wide, you're free to present your own preferred evidence.
 
Last edited:
I not defending anything more than you are. You made a simplistic, unconditional statement that "the vast majority of terrorists are Muslim" and I am challenging the generalisation.

I'm not claiming there aren't lots of Islamic terrorists, especially in specific regions, that much of that terrorism isn't large scale and serious nor that nothing should be done to address it. All I am suggesting is that your statement's factual correctness is at best hugely depended on context and definitions so is really too generalistic to have any real meaning.

If you don't like the sampling of the statistics I found to demonstrate the range and variety of terrorism world-wide, you're free to present your own preferred evidence.

The thread is about Islamic terrorism. Not any other kind of terrorism. So what? Every time someone wants to start a thread on Islamic terrorism, they have to include all other kinds of terrorism to make people like you feel satisfied that a particular terrorist group isn't being singled out? That is so stupid.
 
Back
Top Bottom