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Body of 11 Year Old Christian Found Mutilated, Burned in Pakistan

ChrisL said:
The thread is about Islamic terrorism.
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Actually the thread was about the vicious murder of a young boy. At the time of the OP at least, the motive for it hadn't been confirmed. The thread developed in to a discussion about culture and crime in Islamic countries and inevitably terrorism was brought up. There was really nothing wrong with that discussion.

I did make a comment about a specific statement by one poster - that "the vast majority of terrorists are Muslim", which ultimately led to the post you quoted. This was really a tangent to the topic, but a relevant one IMO.

Please be clear though; I am not saying Islamic terrorism shouldn't be discussed or that other terrorism must be referred to in the same thread. I am saying that all discussions should be true and honest. I don't think that statement was true and honest so I questioned it.
 
HonestJoe said:
Actually the thread was about the vicious murder of a young boy. At the time of the OP at least, the motive for it hadn't been confirmed. The thread developed in to a discussion about culture and crime in Islamic countries and inevitably terrorism was brought up. There was really nothing wrong with that discussion.

I did make a comment about a specific statement by one poster - that "the vast majority of terrorists are Muslim", which ultimately led to the post you quoted. This was really a tangent to the topic, but a relevant one IMO.

Please be clear though; I am not saying Islamic terrorism shouldn't be discussed or that other terrorism must be referred to in the same thread. I am saying that all discussions should be true and honest. I don't think that statement was true and honest so I questioned it.
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Okay, I get that. Islamic terrorists ARE the most active, destructive and brutal terrorists I've ever heard of though, and it is kind of embedded in the culture generally.
 
ChrisL said:
Islamic terrorists ARE the most active, destructive and brutal terrorists I've ever heard of though
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Quite possibly, though as you point out, that's limited to those you've heard of. How much do you honestly hear about any other terrorist acts? We don't even hear about most Islamic terrorist acts.

ChrisL said:
and it is kind of embedded in the culture generally.
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This comes back to the topic of the thread. My question to you is "Which culture?". Islam is not a single culture (even if some Muslims think it is). An American Muslim will be very different to an Iraqi Muslim, a Malaysian Muslim or a Russian Muslim. You probably have more in common with the average American Muslim than he has with many other Muslims across the world.

Again, there are common factors and there are plenty of issues with the faith in general, but reality is much more varied and complex than many people (wish to) make it out to be. That means there are no easy answers, which is what scares so many people.
 
HonestJoe said:
Quite possibly, though as you point out, that's limited to those you've heard of. How much do you honestly hear about any other terrorist acts? We don't even hear about most Islamic terrorist acts.
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That would all depend upon what part of the world you live in. With the internet, we have access.

This comes back to the topic of the thread. My question to you is "Which culture?". Islam is not a single culture (even if some Muslims think it is). An American Muslim will be very different to an Iraqi Muslim, a Malaysian Muslim or a Russian Muslim. You probably have more in common with the average American Muslim than he has with many other Muslims across the world.
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I am talking more about the patriarchal cultures in the ME, the ones that practice things like Sharia Law, oppression of women and female children, a general distaste for anything related to "freedom." This is the kind of environment where terrorism would naturally thrive and is actually encouraged in a lot of instances.

Again, there are common factors and there are plenty of issues with the faith in general, but reality is much more varied and complex than many people (wish to) make it out to be. That means there are no easy answers, which is what scares so many people.
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Of course. No one has said that ALL Muslims were terrorists; only that it is a BIG problem that should not be ignored.
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HonestJoe said:
I not defending anything more than you are. You made a simplistic, unconditional statement that "the vast majority of terrorists are Muslim" and I am challenging the generalisation.

I'm not claiming there aren't lots of Islamic terrorists, especially in specific regions, that much of that terrorism isn't large scale and serious nor that nothing should be done to address it. All I am suggesting is that your statement's factual correctness is at best hugely depended on context and definitions so is really too generalistic to have any real meaning.

If you don't like the sampling of the statistics I found to demonstrate the range and variety of terrorism world-wide, you're free to present your own preferred evidence.
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and now you are simply lying because I made no such statement at all.

Might I possibly suggest you indulge in at least the tiniest little bit of honesty here so to avoid making such a complete mockery of your user name?
 
Gardener said:
and now you are simply lying because I made no such statement at all.
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Apologies, it was Diogenes who initally made the statement. I made an honest error because you attacked my response to that initial statement. That said, you didn't make it especially clear that you weren't defending the statement.

Do you believe that the vast majority of terrorists and Muslim?
 
HonestJoe said:
Apologies, it was Diogenes who initally made the statement. I made an honest error because you attacked my response to that initial statement. That said, you didn't make it especially clear that you weren't defending the statement.

Do you believe that the vast majority of terrorists and Muslim?
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I attacked your response since it was intellectually dishonest. To ascertain whether or not his statement was accurate, you would have to take into account ALL terrorism, and not limit your sampling size in such a way as to create a specific impression.

To give an example, if a person said that the majority of deaths caused by dogs were by pit bulls, you would need to take into account all deaths and then break them down by breed rather than choosing only one specific location where you know other breads had caused death. ""Well, lookie here -- your statement cannot be correct because in the 1200 block of east 47th avenue in Chicago, fully half of all deaths were caused by Rottweilers"..........
 
rhinefire said:
We ARE taliking religion not countries. Let's say Pakistan or any such country establishes a rock solid democracy. However they slaughter all those in defiance of Islam law. Do we gather up another army and deploy them in to the country decalring "You have a democracy but WE don't like your religious practices so it's WAR Round II".
Name the countries that threw their cultures away as a result of WWII. This insanity we call our foreign policy in the middle east is simply that, insanity. You want to kill bad guys all over the world, go ahead, I'll stay home and work on my yard. Get out of the middle east where the impossible is the rule of the day.
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Impossible. One cannot have a democracy that is ruled by Islamic law. Rule by religious law is a theocracy. You can only have one or the other, not both.
 
ChrisL said:
IMO, the extremists (who are more than likely preaching at mosques and acting in leadership roles) in the ME keep the hatred going on and on and on because they want to keep the people occupied with hating everyone else in the world, thinking everyone else is holding them back. If they keep the people busy hating the outside world, then they won't be so aware of what their own leaders do. These dictators in these countries are soooo disgustingly rich, and they let the people go without.
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Well, those extremists, many a times, are financed and backed by our 'ally' Saudi Arabia. (Analyses - Wahhabism | PBS - Saudi Time Bomb? | FRONTLINE | PBS) (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/opinion/11friedman.html) (WikiLeaks cables assess terrorism funding in Saudi Arabia, Gulf states - CNN)

We also have financed them as well (Sleeping With the Devil: How U.S. and Saudi Backing of Al Qaeda Led to 9/11 | Global Research) (  US Funding Al Qaeda In Syria:    Information Clearing House: ICH)
 
Gardener said:
I attacked your response since it was intellectually dishonest. To ascertain whether or not his statement was accurate, you would have to take into account ALL terrorism, and not limit your sampling size in such a way as to create a specific impression.
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Well, I never said it certainly isn't true, only that it isn't necessarily true and is dependant on context and definitions (neither of which have been expanded on). Also, since the claim was that "the vast majority of terrorists are Muslims", I feel the information I supplied was relevant.

As I've said in a previous post, I'd be more than happy to see any evidence at all supporting the statement. None has been provided yet.
 
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