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Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Funera

Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Ikari said:
Umm...thanks for limiting free speech? For expanding government against our free rights? I understand the emotion here, but this is not acceptable government force. This is just another expansion of government. We do not have "moral and sacred duty to our men and women in uniform" we have a moral and sacred duty to our liberty and freedom!

And that's how freedom dies, not with resistance, not with cursing, but with applause.
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300 feet? Seriously, how is that a limit? It's just a public safety measure.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

lpast said:
Ok, now this is one issue that "EVERYONE" should say Thank You Mr President....


President Barack Obama signed the Honoring America’s Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012 into law on Monday, providing a wide-ranging package of benefits to military personnel and enacting new restrictions on protests of service member funerals.

"We have a moral sacred duty to our men and women in uniform," Obama said before signing the bill, according to a pool report. "The graves of our veterans are hallowed grounds."


Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Funeral Protests
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I hate what the Westburo church does as much as the next guy, however, what they are doing is free speech.

There is no law (up until now) making it illegal to be an asshole. This ACT does nothing but limit free speech. What's next, you can't protest in front of a recruiting station or a war because it might insult veterans?

I am a veteran and knowing full well if my name were somehow famous, these pricks at Westburo would probably protest at my funeral and I don't care if they would.

The number one thing people have got to do in order to get rid of vocal pricks like this is to just IGNORE them, not hack down freedom.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

hazlnut said:
"Fighting words" are not covered under the first amendment.

Also, 300 feet is hardly a 'ban'.

You're overreacting.

You should say "Thank you."
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300 feet and 4 hours around service. You cannot protest between 2 hours before till 2 hours after the event even at 300 feet.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

hazlnut said:
300 feet? Seriously, how is that a limit? It's just a public safety measure.
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free speech zones? Sorry, but I can't agree with this act based on that.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

hazlnut said:
300 feet? Seriously, how is that a limit? It's just a public safety measure.
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No it's not. This is purposeful reaction of government to the free exercise of rights and an attempt to use government force to curtail just that. How is 300 feet and 4 hours a limit? Because it limits protest to outside 300 feet and 4 hours of service. That's kind of what "limit" means. Duh.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Ikari said:
What if one is trying to protest at a funeral not to exalt the death of the soldier, but rather to protest the actions of government which led to the death? Is that not legitimate protest? Not under this law it's not, off you go and enjoy jail.

I cannot believe there are people who support bills like this, I have to wonder if they've thought any of this through.
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write an OP-Ed piece and get over it.

You can 'what if' all day... "What if you want to protest the funeral of a solider who was killed molesting kitties?"
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

hazlnut said:
write an OP-Ed piece and get over it.

You can 'what if' all day... "What if you want to protest the funeral of a solider who was killed molesting kitties?"
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It's beyond that, this is free speech we're talking about here and it must be protected. I can "what if" all day, but I'll refrain from such intellectually dishonest comments as made in the quote above. Instead I will say that my original hypothetical is not uncommon nor is it unreasonable. The rights of the People cannot be further chipped away just because some people couldn't handle the results of freedom.

Everyone who wants to say "thank you" for this law is one who cannot abide the consequences of freedom.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Ikari said:
It's beyond that, this is free speech we're talking about here and it must be protected. I can "what if" all day, but I'll refrain from such intellectually dishonest comments as made in the quote above. Instead I will say that my original hypothetical is not uncommon nor is it unreasonable. The rights of the People cannot be further chipped away just because some people couldn't handle the results of freedom.

Everyone who wants to say "thank you" for this law is one who cannot abide the consequences of freedom.
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300 feet? It's not a ban. How are you being prevented from an far-fetched hypothetical?
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

I dont care if they dont limit WBC freedom of speech, I say let them protest anywhere they want. But I dont think they should limit us vets from the freedom to apply asswhippins as we see fit.

Hehe. I really applaud Obama's Act. Another reason to vote for him.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

hazlnut said:
300 feet? It's not a ban. How are you being prevented from an far-fetched hypothetical?
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So are you in agreement for free speech zones as well?
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

hazlnut said:
300 feet? It's not a ban. How are you being prevented from an far-fetched hypothetical?
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300 feet and 4 hours. Within a four hour block around the funeral, no protest even outside 300 feet is allowed.

I mean people like you are how we end up with "free speech" zones, fenced in areas miles from the convention. "How's it a ban, how are you being prevented? You can stand in that little cage over there and protest, go write an Op-Ed piece" blah blah blah. Stupid.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Oh, I almost forgot...

Thank you President Obama for giving families of the fallen a little bit more piece (and space) during their grieving while not inflicting any real damage on free speech.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Ikari said:
300 feet and 4 hours. Within a four hour block around the funeral, no protest even outside 300 feet is allowed.

I mean people like you are how we end up with "free speech" zones, fenced in areas miles from the convention. "How's it a ban, how are you being prevented? You can stand in that little cage over there and protest, go write an Op-Ed piece" blah blah blah. Stupid.
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I have no problem with 'free speech' zones. Public safety trumps your right incite a riot. Also regular commerce and business should not be halted every time someone wants to get up on a soap box. People throwing a convention are paying a lot of money for timing of events and logistics, etc. They have a right conduct their business without some type of intentional sabotage or disruption for the sake of protest. I'm not saying protesters shouldn't try to disrupt the event to make point, but they risk trespassing and arrest.

Also, if the size of a demonstration could potentially endanger event-goers or nearby businesses, then move the protest to a safe and sane area.

In this case the protest restrictions are reasonable -- any group who wants to be heard is capable of contacting local media and sending out a press release after they get their permit.

Words can be like daggers, they can cause real emotional pain. And fighting words are not covered by the 1st Amendment. What is the public interest in further wounding grieving people? Your example about protesting a fallen solider as a way of protesting the war is confusing to me. If you're protesting a military funeral, doesn't that imply you have a problem the families of fallen or the fallen solider?


IMO -- the boldest most meaningful protests are the ones that violate the law and thumb their nose at authority.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

TheNextEra said:
So are you in agreement for free speech zones as well?
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Yes. Public safety trumps free speech, and if a demonstration poses a potential threat, then set up a buffer.

Keep in mind the freedom we have to hold extremely large protests right outside the U.S. Capitol on the National Mall. These large events are often televised and reach all corners of the country.

But when a convention is held in a busy downtown area, safety measures based on past experiences are perfectly okay. Again, if you you really believe in your cause, then look for a way to make your point without hurting people and minimal damage to property. A great protest often skates over the law.

The rules outside the White House are reasonable measures to protect the President and his family.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Though I dislike WBC, I wonder what the future holds for the 300 feet measurement or another arbitrary measurement. What other event could an expanded law affect?
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

A Kansas law almost exactly like this was struck down last year by the Supreme Court. If Phelps were actually blocking access to the funerals or actually inciting violence, that would be one thing and there are already laws on the books to deal with those kinds of things if they are occurring. Anything else is a violation of the liberty that these men and women died defending.

Snyder v. Phelps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

hazlnut said:
"Fighting words" are not covered under the first amendment.

Also, 300 feet is hardly a 'ban'.

You're overreacting.

You should say "Thank you."
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If there was a 300 foot rule away from any businesses and parks for occutard protesters I guarentee you would be screeming that this is a ban on free speech.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

hazlnut said:
I have no problem with 'free speech' zones. Public safety trumps your right incite a riot.
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I could be convinced to suffer reasonable restriction, "free speech zones" are not reasonable restriction. They are purposefully constructed, caged off areas placed miles from where anything (like conventions) are occuring. It's purposeful government force against our right to assembly, speech, association, and redress in order to mitigate the effects those would have.

While there could be "reasonable" regulation, there is also unreasonable regulation, and in that case you end up destroying the foundation of freedom and liberty; very dangerous. On some level while it is all well and good to worry about "public safety", we cannot take it to such extremes that our rights are taken away and the purpose of them obliterated. As with "free speech zones" laws such as the topic of this thread are rather "floppy" in definition and draconian in enforcement and are very very easily abused by government to silence dissent. That cannot be allowed to happen.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

jamesrage said:
If there was a 300 foot rule away from any businesses and parks for occutard protesters I guarentee you would be screeming that this is a ban on free speech.
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I certainly would have. I argued against many of the laws being used against OWS to silence their dissent and protest.

But then again, I do love freedom.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

I wish everybody was perfectly nice to the Westboro cult and shook their heads at the ridiculous comments and chuckled at the ridiculous protests. Their viewpoint - one in which they are alone speaking "the truth" in the final days before Christ's return - is perpetuated by the way society reacts to them. But I can't blame people for reacting that way. It's just the normal human reaction and it's what their protests are designed to elicit.

Whether or not to use the law to prohibit their actions is an extremely difficult decision, and I have respect for the decision Obama made. Yes, having our President waste a moment of his time on these morons is not something I wanted to witness. And yes, putting a limitation on a religious group's freedom to protest is not something I'd normally endorse. But I don't see any way in the world that this will be used as a "slippery slope," so I think this time it's clear that God's will is to smite the Phelps cult and we will rejoice in his judgement against them.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Mustachio said:
I wish everybody was perfectly nice to the Westboro cult and shook their heads at the ridiculous comments and chuckled at the ridiculous protests. Their viewpoint - one in which they are alone speaking "the truth" in the final days before Christ's return - is perpetuated by the way society reacts to them. But I can't blame people for reacting that way. It's just the normal human reaction and it's what their protests are designed to elicit.

Whether or not to use the law to prohibit their actions is an extremely difficult decision, and I have respect for the decision Obama made. Yes, having our President waste a moment of his time on these morons is not something I wanted to witness. And yes, putting a limitation on a religious group's freedom to protest is not something I'd normally endorse. But I don't see any way in the world that this will be used as a "slippery slope," so I think this time it's clear that God's will is to smite the Phelps cult and we will rejoice in his judgement against them.
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The will of gods has nothing to do with the laws of man. Freedom has repercussions and to keep it, we must accept those repercussions.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Ikari said:
The will of gods has nothing to do with the laws of man. Freedom has repercussions and to keep it, we must accept those repercussions.
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What you people think is freedom is not freedom. What you people think should not be considered freedom is freedom.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

DrunkenAsparagus said:
A Kansas law almost exactly like this was struck down last year by the Supreme Court. If Phelps were actually blocking access to the funerals or actually inciting violence, that would be one thing and there are already laws on the books to deal with those kinds of things if they are occurring. Anything else is a violation of the liberty that these men and women died defending.

Snyder v. Phelps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Right. People killed and were killed for the freedom to harass and insult people at funerals.
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

Matt Foley said:
What you people think should not be considered freedom is freedom.
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What+do+you+mean...+You+people....+haha+saw+this+guy_7b3815_3574428.jpg
 
Re: Honoring America's Veterans Act Signed By Obama, Restricting Westboro Military Fu

TheNextEra said:
I hate what the Westburo church does as much as the next guy, however, what they are doing is free speech.
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If this is America's idea of free speech than maybe they are right: Death to America.
 
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