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People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

iliveonramen said:
Taiwan? The live longer, spend less, and have more access to medical care. That seems like they are pretty happy with their system.
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They are in for a big surprise because Canada's healthcare system has unbelievable waits for care.
 
Dagger said:
They are in for a big surprise because Canada's healthcare system has unbelievable waits for care.
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The Taiwanese are in for a big surprise because Canada's healthcare system has unbelievable waits for care?

Somehow, I seem to be missing something there.
 
Billy the Kid said:
My, my! I heard it on the local news. Am I wrong? If so please post the link that refutes what I heard. Thanks.
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You heard it on the local news? Well, then that settles it... oh, wait:

To examine the extent to which Canadian residents seek medical care across the border, we collected data about Canadians’ use of services from ambulatory care facilities and hospitals located in Michigan, New York State, and Washington State during 1994–1998. We also collected information from several Canadian sources, including the 1996 National Population Health Survey, the provincial Ministries of Health, and the Canadian Life and Health Insurance Association. Results from these sources do not support the widespread perception that Canadian residents seek care extensively in the United States. Indeed, the numbers found are so small as to be barely detectible relative to the use of care by Canadians at home.
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source

The US is not and never has been a preferred place for medical tourism. Our system is expensive and not all that great.
 
Dittohead not! said:
You heard it on the local news? Well, then that settles it... oh, wait:



source

The US is not and never has been a preferred place for medical tourism. Our system is expensive and not all that great.
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Your right the Canadians would rather stay in Canada for emergency surgery. Their HC system pays $350 a day for hospital stay. In Florida it costs $5-6K a day where most of the "Snow Birds" go. Also, Canada will pay $350.00 per day to the hospital/doctor because they have universal HC.


Canadians contrast their health care to U.S.'s - Washington Times

"Nevertheless, the demands on the system have led to waiting lists for treatments such as MRI scans, cataract and artery bypass surgeries and hip replacements.

That’s one reason why 70 percent of Canadians have some form of supplemental health insurance, whether or not they plan to visit the United States.

The Canadian system needs fixing, said Dr. Robert Ouellet, president of the Canadian Medical Association.

“We have improved waiting times from years to months in most areas, but people still wait too long even in emergency rooms,” he said."


So, IMO, I would tend to put some credence on the report I heard on my local news this morning.
 
Tigger said:
The sword and axe are a wonderful backup to the firearms, no matter where you are, Somerville. I don't have all the details worked out yet. I figure that no matter what way I go, I'll probably be dead within a couple of years, so does it really matter?



GOOD. The Decline of America will hopefully lead to the rise of a proper country in its place.



Actually my legal advisor is working on it at this point, trying to iron out some of the issues. Hopefully by the first of August something will be in place to get me the hell out of here.
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BArnold.gif


Dont let the door hit you in the ass coward.
 
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Dittohead not! said:
The Taiwanese are in for a big surprise because Canada's healthcare system has unbelievable waits for care?

Somehow, I seem to be missing something there.
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The people who are moving to Canada for the healthcare god dammit.
 
Billy the Kid said:
My, my! I heard it on the local news. Am I wrong? If so please post the link that refutes what I heard. Thanks.
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Ha,ha, it's the other way around, you made the statement, you provide the links to back it up. Unless it's smoke, in that case we understand.
 
mertex said:
Ha,ha, it's the other way around, you made the statement, you provide the links to back it up. Unless it's smoke, in that case we understand.
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I realize that some read only what they want to read, but I did allow as how Dittohead might be right. You should have read further on in the posts, especially my post 229. I said that Canadians might want to stay in Canada and use their HC system and quoted an article the president of the Canadian Medical Association which stated:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jun/11/canadas-health-plan-contrasted-with-us/

"Nevertheless, the demands on the system have led to waiting lists for treatments such as MRI scans, cataract and artery bypass surgeries and hip replacements.

That’s one reason why 70 percent of Canadians have some form of supplemental health insurance, whether or not they plan to visit the United States.

The Canadian system needs fixing, said Dr. Robert Ouellet, president of the Canadian Medical Association.

“We have improved waiting times from years to months in most areas, but people still wait too long even in emergency rooms,” he said."


So this tells me that the "regular" Canadian HC system isn't sufficient. In order to get immediate or elective medical services Canadians BUY "additional" HC policies to cover their visits to the US or private Canadian doctors. I had a family member that lived in Engalnd who tried to us their HC system and found it difficult, so they paid "for a private doctor" to obtain the same type services they enjoyed in America.

If this sounds like a deal to you, sign up and be happy. I like seeing my doctor while I'm ill or before I die of my illiness.
 
I can see Canadian doctors wanting more money to encourage more modern equipt in more hospitals. More incentives to keep their doctors from being lured away to the big money pit just south of them. (Thinking once we stop the profit race Canada will keep more doctors and get more equipt.) I have been to England where they have excellent healthcare, most Brits buy a supplemental policy in addition to the basic health coverage and consider that the best of both worlds.

Seems to me very poor people will have better care under a 'Commonwealth' plan, and more affluent folks can buy supplemental to get 'gold' or 'platinum' care without a great deal of angst. I believe motives other than patient care are behind a lot of the scare stories of dying in the hallways waiting for an MRI. Our system has people dying in the ER waiting to be seen.

What impressed me about the 'socialist' medical system is in the FRG back in the 70's they had a DOCTOR riding in their ambulances for serious accidents and heart attacks. While they didn't have all the whiz bang we do these days the very idea of a doctor in the vehicle at a time where we barely knew what EMT meant says a lot.

Anyway you slice it rich folks will not wait in halls for treatment that never comes.

Good doctors will not have to sign up for food stamps.

There will always be choice and options for people so only the VERY poor will have basic medical care, cable, or auto insurance...
 
Billy the Kid said:
“We have improved waiting times from years to months in most areas, but people still wait too long even in emergency rooms,” he said."


So this tells me that the "regular" Canadian HC system isn't sufficient. In order to get immediate or elective medical services Canadians BUY "additional" HC policies to cover their visits to the US or private Canadian doctors. I had a family member that lived in Engalnd who tried to us their HC system and found it difficult, so they paid "for a private doctor" to obtain the same type services they enjoyed in America.

If this sounds like a deal to you, sign up and be happy. I like seeing my doctor while I'm ill or before I die of my illiness.
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In the US, many people have to wait to see a doctor. Try getting an appt with a geriatric nuerologist for a new patient. It takes up to 6 weeks.
 
sangha said:
In the US, many people have to wait to see a doctor. Try getting an appt with a geriatric nuerologist for a new patient. It takes up to 6 weeks.
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Imagine being in Canada where "the demands on the system have led to waiting lists for treatments such as MRI scans, cataract and artery bypass surgeries and hip replacements.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Interesting image.

Your words are the problem. I'm pretty sure you aren't intending to say what you're actually saying.
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The Americans moving to Canada because of their Healthcare system?
 
Dagger said:
The Americans moving to Canada because of their Healthcare system?
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i was pretty sure that was what you meant.

However:


Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen
Taiwan? The live longer, spend less, and have more access to medical care. That seems like they are pretty happy with their system.
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your response:

They are in for a big surprise because Canada's healthcare system has unbelievable waits for care.
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Of course, the idea of Americans moving to Canada in order to get away from Obomnycare is absurd, as most of us on this thread can see.
 
Billy the Kid said:
Imagine being in Canada where "the demands on the system have led to waiting lists for treatments such as MRI scans, cataract and artery bypass surgeries and hip replacements.
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I wouldn't mind. None of those things you listed are necessarily considered emergency procedures.

My mom had to wait 4 weeks to have her cataracts treated (granted, her condition made her a special case), and CAB surgeries are often put off for weeks and sometimes months. Hip replacements too. Many times, it's advisable to put off a hip replacement for as long as possible.

In the US, some people not only wait for treatment for serious conditions, they NEVER get the treatment they need. I'll take delayed treatment over no treatment. YMMV
 
sangha said:
I wouldn't mind. None of those things you listed are necessarily considered emergency procedures.
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cataract perhaps is the only procedure that was mentioned that would be considered as non-emergency. But others can be.

Logically yes a wait time is better than never, but in the US it is not never for everyone as it stands now. But I think the point is that Canada is a poor example not a solution to this nations healthcare woes. We should strive for a system that does much better than Canada while still allowing for the freedoms that should be apparent in any healthcare situation. Let it be said though that I agree that no one should die regardless of how they came to be in their situation, because of their lack of money to pay for life saving procedures. But I dont see insurance companies as anywhere near as a solution. Nor do I see nationalized healthcare as a solution. But I do see regulatory control of medical pricing as a start. And perhaps Government loans to pay for procedures or something along that line as a better idea.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
cataract perhaps is the only procedure that was mentioned that would be considered as non-emergency. But others can be.
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Yes, others "can be", and when they are, they are treated as an emergency...IOW, right away. Same in the US and Canada


Logically yes a wait time is better than never, but in the US it is not never for everyone as it stands now. But I think the point is that Canada is a poor example not a solution to this nations healthcare woes. We should strive for a system that does much better than Canada while still allowing for the freedoms that should be apparent in any healthcare situation. Let it be said though that I agree that no one should die regardless of how they came to be in their situation, because of their lack of money to pay for life saving procedures. But I dont see insurance companies as anywhere near as a solution. Nor do I see nationalized healthcare as a solution. But I do see regulatory control of medical pricing as a start. And perhaps Government loans to pay for procedures or something along that line as a better idea.
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WHile I don't agree with every you said, I dont disagree with everything either. Either way, you do sound reasonable, so all I will say is that the areas where the Canadiens have waiting times are areas which are not emergency situations. Any canadian facing a life-threatening condition that an MRI, etc might help resolve is not required to wait for the MRI,etc. It's the other, non-emergency uses of MRI's that are put on a waiting list.

Meanwhile, in the US, we don't have to wait for an MRI because we have a glut of MRI's which have contributed to the higher cost of medical treatment. We don't have to wait for an MRI because in the US, doctors are thrilled to send you to get an MRI. After, they have to find a way to pay for all the MRI machines they bought.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
cataract perhaps is the only procedure that was mentioned that would be considered as non-emergency. But others can be.

Logically yes a wait time is better than never, but in the US it is not never for everyone as it stands now. But I think the point is that Canada is a poor example not a solution to this nations healthcare woes. We should strive for a system that does much better than Canada while still allowing for the freedoms that should be apparent in any healthcare situation. Let it be said though that I agree that no one should die regardless of how they came to be in their situation, because of their lack of money to pay for life saving procedures. But I dont see insurance companies as anywhere near as a solution. Nor do I see nationalized healthcare as a solution. But I do see regulatory control of medical pricing as a start. And perhaps Government loans to pay for procedures or something along that line as a better idea.
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Costs have to be controlled, but price controls by government dictate have a poor track record so far.
 
sangha said:
I wouldn't mind. None of those things you listed are necessarily considered emergency procedures.

My mom had to wait 4 weeks to have her cataracts treated (granted, her condition made her a special case), and CAB surgeries are often put off for weeks and sometimes months. Hip replacements too. Many times, it's advisable to put off a hip replacement for as long as possible.

In the US, some people not only wait for treatment for serious conditions, they NEVER get the treatment they need. I'll take delayed treatment over no treatment. YMMV
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I like our current system as is. I like have medical services available when and/or if I need them.

The Canadians do only pay, per the article I posted, $350 hospital stay, but Canadians buy supplemental health insurance plans and the Canadian Adminstrator stated"

“We have improved waiting times from years to months in most areas, but people still wait too long even in emergency rooms,”

So I'll stick with the US system.
 
Billy the Kid said:
I like our current system as is. I like have medical services available when and/or if I need them.

The Canadians do only pay, per the article I posted, $350 hospital stay, but Canadians buy supplemental health insurance plans and the Canadian Adminstrator stated"

“We have improved waiting times from years to months in most areas, but people still wait too long even in emergency rooms,”

So I'll stick with the US system.
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Actually, you won't

Since you haven't noticed, the US health care is changing
 
sangha said:
Actually, you won't

Since you haven't noticed, the US health care is changing
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Of course our current HC system will change. The question will be how much?
 
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