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People say they're moving to Canada because of Obamacare

This shambles can be accredited to a culture whereby the national fabric has become so fearful, phobic and sickly of the idea of Communism, thanks to the Cold War, that they have moved to one extreme of Venture Capitalism to the next, whereby even the smallest suggestion that government MAY actually have a positive and constructive and human rights based ability and role to provide services for the bettering of the nation in a way that the private sphere could possibly not, that everybody screams socialism and raises arms as though they where counter-revolutionists.

So now we have a country that will do anything to keep constructive government at bay at the expense of reaping hell in the socio-economic structures of the country which have become corrupt, disenchanted and marginalised, just because the vast majority of Americans do not understand that the word "socialism" is not mutually exclusive with un-American, bad and communism and does NOT inevitably end with Communism (by the same logic, 2+1 ends with a result of 10).

Perhaps this complete lack of tolerance can also be pointed to the expanding role of federal government in state affairs. They need to be scaled back but state governments should be given an ultimatum to provide healthcare with the funding of the federal budget.

Better, more affordable healthcare for the taxpayer cannot - i repeat - CANNOT - ever be regarded as a bad thing, except for the rich, who will always have the option of private healthcare open to them like they do in England even though we have a National Health Service.
 
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At least in Canada they won't be forced to pay for expensive healthcare insurance that cover's them for everything other than the most serious and chronic of ailments without the excessive sums and debts.



Yes through manageable and fair taxes. But they will be completely covered.

Private healthcare has two motives however. Providing healthcare and making a profit (because that is precisely what being private entails). And guess which of the two takes precedence? Insurance companies do pretty much everything to hold onto the money and wont give it up easily, you're better off going to Canada than staying in America and paying for private healthcare insurance. Hence why, according to the UN, the U.S is listed 38 out of 194 countries in ascending order of highest life expectancy, which is lower than Cuba and significantly lower than Canada - truly shameful. Typical example of a country with vast amounts of wealth with only a fraction of the populace benefiting.

Hell, i'd argue your better off moving to Cuba let alone Canada.

Medicine being for-profit is not the primary or only reason why U.S. life expectancy isn't the same as other countries (and the difference in most cases is 1-3 years...our ALE is 78.2 and the highest ALE belongs to Japan, at 82.6 Only four countries have a life expectancy at 82+ years). The American lifestyle, including diet, physical activity, mentality towards healthy living, social pressures for appearance, etc...all contributing factors. Our consumption of alcohol and tobacco...also key factors. Accessibility of drugs...also a key factor. Violent crime statistics...also a key factor.

It's dishonest to say that our health care is the reason our life expectancy is shorter than other countries and imply that it's the primary reason. It's a small part of a much larger puzzle.

Further, the life expectancy in Cuba is 78.3....that's only 0.1 year longer than the U.S. That's a marginal difference.
 
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While some love calling Americans dumb fat and happy, drinking like fish and eating anything fried, smoking like chimneys while planted at a desk for work and the couch while at leisure....

I don't think it is unique to our nation. Cubans seem to enjoy frying damn near everything with a side of beans and or rice. Drinking and smoking is as much a part of their culture as ours yet we spend far more for a basic dead heat. Becoming more sedentary, over consumption, and taste over nutrition isn't new nor restricted to only our citizens.

I once helped give an insurance reform doctor some precision shooting lessons. He was an eye opener for where and how doctors drop the ball with patients. Where hospitals neglect their role in patient care and how some doctors really need to find a new career. How insurance companies don't concern themselves with overseeing those they pay but rather keep stock holders, many times a high % of whom are medical professionals, happy.

Funny thing about him, unlike a lot of doctors who are difficult students and trend toward blaming their gear rather than themselves, he owned his muffs. loved hi introduction line for the doctors/hospital administrators... I bring a lifeboat, but I decide who gets a seat and there will not be enough seats for everyone.

I kind of liked his attitude. He quickly learned some of his high dollar scopes were POS and some of the cheaper rigs can outshoot fancy custom dollar sinks.
 
Medicine being for-profit is not the primary or only reason why U.S. life expectancy isn't the same as other countries (and the difference in most cases is 1-3 years...our ALE is 78.2 and the highest ALE belongs to Japan, at 82.6 Only four countries have a life expectancy at 82+ years). The American lifestyle, including diet, physical activity, mentality towards healthy living, social pressures for appearance, etc...all contributing factors. Our consumption of alcohol and tobacco...also key factors. Accessibility of drugs...also a key factor. Violent crime statistics...also a key factor.

All of which, as you may notice, are factors that can be adequately addressed and managed through a good and easily accessible health care system which to be quiet frank America does not have.

It's dishonest to say that our health care is the reason our life expectancy is shorter than other countries and imply that it's the primary reason. It's a small part of a much larger puzzle.

I'd say it is a large contributing factor. You could just as easily break it down further by looking at how many millions of Americans lack healthcare insurance and how many millions more cannot afford the right insurance and look at how many deaths happen a year quiet simply because they either do not have insurance and/or their policy do not cover their ailments.

Yet the government sits back and allows it to happen, because of a small group of very powerful, very radical and very loud members of Congress might label them "commies".

Further, the life expectancy in Cuba is 78.3....that's only 0.1 year longer than the U.S. That's a marginal difference.

Still an achievement considering the state of their economy, partly due to the US lead embargoes. Cuba is just one example, look at Canada and Europe for a better estimation.
 
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I don't think any other country in the world requires everyone buy insurance policies from private corporations.


That's why insurance companies like it. That's what I don't like about it. The problem with health care was never the government, it was the insurance companies.
 
I'm generally against direct government control, but having lived in Canada and heard the opinions of my many Canadian family members and friends, I'm quite confident in the Canadian system's superiority. It's one of the things I miss about living there. Everyone gets basic dental and medical coverage with the result being an overall healthier society. The odd person has to come to the U.S. for a procedure, but that's a problem with the low population density of the country rather than a problem with the "socialized" payment methodology.
 
Study links 45,000 U.S. deaths to lack of insurance | Reuters

Nearly 45,000 people die in the United States each year -- one every 12 minutes -- in large part because they lack health insurance and can not get good care, Harvard Medical School researchers found in an analysis released on Thursday.

I would be willing to bet that it's because Americans generally live unhealthy lifestyles, and not due to a lack of insurance. Alot of people want to pretend that we are dying because of lack of insurance, but poor health is the cause of death, not lack of funding. What many don't realize is that to cover all Americans would be prohibitively expensive, as compared to many other nations, because we are collectively unhealthy due to lifestyles of excess.
 
I would be willing to bet that it's because Americans generally live unhealthy lifestyles, and not due to a lack of insurance. Alot of people want to pretend that we are dying because of lack of insurance, but poor health is the cause of death, not lack of funding. What many don't realize is that to cover all Americans would be prohibitively expensive, as compared to many other nations, because we are collectively unhealthy due to lifestyles of excess.

I bet poor access to sufficiently good healthcare is half the problem. I understand it would be expensive, but America is the wealthiest nation in the world and one of the few without universal healthcare. So where are the funding gaps? Why wouldn't it be possible for America to sustain this level of funding? Well, you could look to the excessive wastefulness of the American economy and the collosal budget of the military for starters.
 
I bet poor access to sufficiently good healthcare is half the problem. I understand it would be expensive, but America is the wealthiest nation in the world and one of the few without universal healthcare. So where are the funding gaps? Why wouldn't it be possible for America to sustain this level of funding? Well, you could look to the excessive wastefulness of the American economy and the collosal budget of the military for starters.

It's more likely the problem that Americans in general don't think long range. They want to live unhealthy lifestyles, then go get "fixed" when a problem arises.
We have a huge obesity problem here. We also have very high rates of diabetes, heart disease, and anxiety/depression problems. Much of the problem here is cultural in nature, and to fix it, individuals would have to be pro-active in taking care of their health. One of the few incentives that works is for people to have to pay for their healthcare expenses, when you're dealing with a population who loves excess as a lifestyle. Universal coverage in this country would make the problems worse, not better.
 
Medicine being for-profit is not the primary or only reason why U.S. life expectancy isn't the same as other countries (and the difference in most cases is 1-3 years...our ALE is 78.2 and the highest ALE belongs to Japan, at 82.6 Only four countries have a life expectancy at 82+ years). The American lifestyle, including diet, physical activity, mentality towards healthy living, social pressures for appearance, etc...all contributing factors. Our consumption of alcohol and tobacco...also key factors. Accessibility of drugs...also a key factor. Violent crime statistics...also a key factor.

It's dishonest to say that our health care is the reason our life expectancy is shorter than other countries and imply that it's the primary reason. It's a small part of a much larger puzzle.

Further, the life expectancy in Cuba is 78.3....that's only 0.1 year longer than the U.S. That's a marginal difference.

Wow. It fills me with all kinds of pride to realize that my countrymen only live 0.1 years less than the average Cuban.
 
It's more likely the problem that Americans in general don't think long range. They want to live unhealthy lifestyles, then go get "fixed" when a problem arises.
We have a huge obesity problem here. We also have very high rates of diabetes, heart disease, and anxiety/depression problems. Much of the problem here is cultural in nature, and to fix it, individuals would have to be pro-active in taking care of their health. One of the few incentives that works is for people to have to pay for their healthcare expenses, when you're dealing with a population who loves excess as a lifestyle. Universal coverage in this country would make the problems worse, not better.

I disagree. If you are truly saying people will be impelled to neglect their health on the basis that they would not have to pay for treatment, we would see these patterns emerge across uni healthcare countries everywhere, but they just aren't their. Would it impel you to do the same? Probably not, and i trust that most people are also sensible and can think rationally for themselves, by that very same logic.

Perhaps Universal healthcare could combat these issues by providing education and treatment in a way that the current system does not allow, and perhaps the GOVERNMENT would be impelled to start caring more about individual health because quiet simply it would cost them too much to continue ignoring this problem (and thus by doing this itself bring about a change in culture), as currently, so long as the insurance companies keep pumping the money into the economy in the billions, it disconnects the government from the core issues and to be frank, keeps them happy to continue not caring.
 
I disagree. If you are truly saying people will be impelled to neglect their health on the basis that they would not have to pay for treatment, we would see these patterns emerge across uni healthcare countries everywhere, but they just aren't their. Would it impel you to do the same? Probably not, and i trust that most people are also sensible and can think rationally for themselves, by that very same logic.
Perhaps Universal healthcare could combat these issues by providing education and treatment in a way that the current system does not allow, and perhaps the GOVERNMENT would be impelled to start caring more about individual health because quiet simply it would cost them too much to continue ignoring this problem (and thus by doing this itself bring about a change in culture), as currently, so long as the insurance companies keep pumping the money into the economy in the billions, it disconnects the government from the core issues and to be frank, keeps them happy to continue not caring.

The bolded is where you seem to be mistaken. I really don't think you understand the mindset of a large number of Americans very well. That is understandable, and is to be expected, frankly. My experiences of working in the health care industry for 30 years tells me that universal coverage won't help our systemic problems. Hopefully I am wrong, but I'll bet I'm not.
 
The bolded is where you seem to be mistaken. I really don't think you understand the mindset of a large number of Americans very well. That is understandable, and is to be expected, frankly. My experiences of working in the health care industry for 30 years tells me that universal coverage won't help our systemic problems. Hopefully I am wrong, but I'll bet I'm not.

I respect that. In which case if i am wrong, and the healthcare system does exaggerate the problems, which i honestly doubt, then we have an unprecedented situation here whereby the culture itself has become so perverted that people are caring less about their own health merely on the basis that treatment is free and measures, tough measures, would need to be taken to address this, but for me (if i was American) the end result either way will always be the need to bring about Uni HC in America as a solution to many problems American society faces and i honestly believe that if the culture is the main point of focus here that Uni HC could assist greatly in actually bringing about cultural change rather than making worse the status quo.
 
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Medicine being for-profit is not the primary or only reason why U.S. life expectancy isn't the same as other countries (and the difference in most cases is 1-3 years...our ALE is 78.2 and the highest ALE belongs to Japan, at 82.6 Only four countries have a life expectancy at 82+ years). The American lifestyle, including diet, physical activity, mentality towards healthy living, social pressures for appearance, etc...all contributing factors. Our consumption of alcohol and tobacco...also key factors. Accessibility of drugs...also a key factor. Violent crime statistics...also a key factor.

It's dishonest to say that our health care is the reason our life expectancy is shorter than other countries and imply that it's the primary reason. It's a small part of a much larger puzzle.

Further, the life expectancy in Cuba is 78.3....that's only 0.1 year longer than the U.S. That's a marginal difference.


Heres the problem with your scenario tess...Rich Americans in studies live 5 to 8 yrs longer than American Poor....

Rich Americans Live 5 Years Longer Than Poor, Study Shows
 
People said the same thing when Bush was elected and when Obama was elected....


At some point I think maybe we should start enforcing this. Dump all the idiots in Canada. hahahah

True, but as I said, it's more about the irony of "I hate socialized medicine. I'm going to Canada." Neither Bush nor Obama were ever President of Canada. In fact, I wonder how many Americans know that Canada doesn't even have a President.
 
No,
Just give this country back to Mexico after you pay $2600.00 a year for health care.
 
I always get a kick out of those people that say they are going to Canada because of Obamacare.

A friend of mine is currently studying abroad in London. Her status on Facebook yesterday was, "Obamacare was upheld?!?! I'm never leaving London."
Many people tried to explain to her that the UK has a program of socialized medicine in place. She didn't understand, no matter how many different ways it was explained.

Some people really worry me.
 
With canadas health law, canadians that come to Florida to winter here...have X amount of months that they are covered by canadian health care here in florida...there are clinics that are set up with signage that they cater to Canadian Patients, I believe they have paid coverage here till the first of april, after that they must return to canada if they want canadian health coverage.

That's very interesting. I didn't realize that. I thought Canadians had to buy private health insurance to cover them during whatever time they'll be in the USA.
 
I always get a kick out of those people that say they are going to Canada because of Obamacare.

A friend of mine is currently studying abroad in London. Her status on Facebook yesterday was, "Obamacare was upheld?!?! I'm never leaving London."
Many people tried to explain to her that the UK has a program of socialized medicine in place. She didn't understand, no matter how many different ways it was explained.

Some people really worry me.

Yep, America is the ONLY first world country without a national healthcare system. Even with the ACA being upheld, the US remains the only first world country without a national healthcare system.

Should you find the ACA so overbearing that you need to leave the US, I might recommend the cozy coastal country of Somalia. Much to the liking of the Cons, Somalians do not have to worry about an overly intrusive central government. What limited federal government spending they do have is largely spent on the military (the common defense) so do not have much left over to waste on healthcare. Somalia is the libertarians/Conservatives dream: no unnecessary laws, no gun control and no government intrusion; only the strong and smart prosper.

Somalia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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That has no relevance to ObamaCare whatsoever.

ObamaCare is NOT universal healthcare.

Canada does not require its citizens to buy insurance policies from private for-profit corporations.

That's because everybody claims to be happy with their current insurer (mostly because they haven't had any major claims) and the politicians are happy with their healthcare lobby money.
Hillary wanted single payer too but look how far she got. Be happy there is at least a cap on insurers gouging now. Forcing them to use 85% of their premiums on healthcare is a start at breaking their grip on our nuts. And those weasels can get rid of their claims denial dept. too No more dropping customers when they get sick.
 
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