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Voter Fraud? 20,000 Felons Signed Wisconsin Recall Petition

Grim17 said:
This is quite interesting, because it looks like the democrats might be involved in a little voter fraud:
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...-stalkers-signed-wiscsonsin-recall-petitions/
I did some checking, and according to Wisconsin law, people with felony convictions are barred from voting if incarcerated, on parole, or on probation for those crimes. So just for kicks, I looked at the list of people who committed felonies and decided to check the status of the very first person on the list, Kari A Tha, and sure enough, she is still on probation until at least mid 2013 for her 2005 felony conviction, which she served a year in prison for.
This means she's not eligable to vote in the state of Wisconsin, and according to the Democratic Party of Wisconsin, "Petition signers must reside in the district of the elected official being recalled and be eligible to vote in Wisconsin."
Voter fraud anyone?
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Is signing a petition actually the same thing as voting?
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Did they REALLY research everyone's information?
That's amazing.
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My understanding about petitions is that groups generally shoot for much more than is required because it's very, very common to collect a bunch of sigs which will not count for a variety of reasons.
So there's a verification process. Idk who does it or when, but I know it happens all the time.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
My understanding about petitions is that groups generally shoot for much more than is required because it's very, very common to collect a bunch of sigs which will not count for a variety of reasons.
So there's a verification process. Idk who does it or when, but I know it happens all the time.
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True. The only thing that Grim has shown is that this petition, like every other petition, was signed by some people who were not qualified to sign the petition.
 
Grim17 said:
It was not voter fraud, but I did prove there was something illegal.

Now are you going to retract your statement, or are you a partisan coward that puts politics above the truth and doing what's right?
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No, you have not proven a damn thing:

pbrauer said:
There is no fraud here Grim.

Wisconsin law says these folks cannot vote, Right?

That means they need a sophisticated software system that match and eliminate these people from the voter rolls before an election, right?

Most of the people on the list probably were registered to vote before they got in to trouble with the law. So when the petitioners asked them if they were registered to vote, they naturally said "yes" and signed the petition. They might in fact may not realize they could not vote.em

So this computer system caught them which is what it supposed to do.
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Plus you also say 20,000 people were involved which is obviously not true.

You baselessly blame the Democrats for this, so it is YOU who is putting politics before the truth.
 
sangha said:
True. The only thing that Grim has shown is that this petition, like every other petition, was signed by some people who were not qualified to sign the petition.
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So I take it you aren't man enough to admit that you were wrong and retract your post... How typical.
 
pbrauer said:
No, you have not proven a damn thing
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Oh yes I did... Now why don't you crawl back under that rock of yours, because discussing this with you is a waste of my time.
 
Grim17 said:
Oh yes I did... Now why don't you crawl back under that rock of yours, because discussing this with you is a waste of my time.
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What did you prove, Grim????
 
Grim17 said:
So I take it you aren't man enough to admit that you were wrong and retract your post... How typical.
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I said nothing wrong, but you continue to insist that someone did something illegal, but you have been proven wrong

But don't worry. I don't think anyone expects you to retract anything
 
TurtleDude said:
I am not making an assertion of fact=you are

and vote fraud is a peculiarly leftwing vice
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And voter suppression is a peculiar right wing vice.
 
sangha said:
I said nothing wrong, but you continue to insist that someone did something illegal, but you have been proven wrong

But don't worry. I don't think anyone expects you to retract anything
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Wow... You are a blatant liar and seem to be proud of it... Oh, and that is not an attack, it is a fact that I will prove right now.

sangha said:
No, it's just another dishonest claim from some wingnut on the internet

Even if they did what the article claims they did, it proves nothing. All they did was match names. The fact that someone has the same name as a felon doesn't mean that they are a felon
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sangha said:
Actually, it's Grim who is making an assertion of fact that he hasn't backed up

He claims that Kari Tha signed a recall petition. So far, there's no evidence that this is true
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Here's the evidence:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...sconsin-recall-petition-3.html#post1060526618


sangha said:
OK, now post a link that says a convicted felon can not sign a petition
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The laws for Wisconsin are located here, which states that a convicted felon on probation is not eligable to vote:

State Felon Voting Laws - Felon Voting - ProCon.org


From the Democratic Party of Wisconsin:

Q: Who can sign a recall petition?

Petition signers must reside in the district of the elected official being recalled and be eligible to vote in Wisconsin.​



And finally, this is the court document proving that Kari is on probation at least until mid 2013:

Charge Details for 2005CF001914 in Dane County


Like I said, calling you a liar is not an attack, but a proven fact...
 
From the Democratic Party of Wisconsin:

Q: Who can sign a recall petition?

Petition signers must reside in the district of the elected official being recalled and be eligible to vote in Wisconsin.
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Nowhere does it say that someone who is ineligible to vote is breaking the law if they sign a petition. All that happens is that the signature is stricken from the petition (following the procedure for doing so, of course, which I outlined in an earlier post to which you predictably did not respond).
 
Grim17 said:
Wow... You are a blatant liar and seem to be proud of it... Oh, and that is not an attack, it is a fact that I will prove right now.
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Everything you quoted me saying was 100% accurate
The fact that someone has the same name as a felon doesn't mean that they are a felon
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That statement is 100% accurate

So far, there's no evidence that this is true
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At the time, that statement was 100% accurate

now post a link that says a convicted felon can not sign a petition
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The fact that their signatgure is not valid does not mean that it was illegal for them to sign, as you mistakenly claimed

But don't worry. No one expects you to retract any of your mistakes
 
Mr. Invisible said:
What I don't understand is why, if you go to prison, you suddenly can't vote. It makes no sense to me. Just because you are in prison shouldn't mean that you don't have the right to vote.
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It varies by state. Maine and Vermont allow felons to vote from prison (they are the only two). See State Felon Voting Laws - Felon Voting - ProCon.org

As a group, southern states appear to be the most restrictive. Goes back to the conservative, authoritarian nature of religion, IMHO, which is of course not intended to "make sense". Also:

Misdemeanor Convictions (as of Apr. 8, 2010):

Anyone convicted of a misdemeanor in Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Missouri, South Carolina, and South Dakota may not vote while incarcerated. Kentucky and Missouri additionally require an executive pardon before allowing people convicted of certain misdemeanors ("high misdemeanors” in KY and "elections-related misdemeanors” in MO) from ever voting again. In Iowa, only persons convicted of an "aggravated" misdemeanor cannot vote while incarcerated.

Same link as above
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Khayembii Communique said:
Nowhere does it say that someone who is ineligible to vote is breaking the law if they sign a petition. All that happens is that the signature is stricken from the petition (following the procedure for doing so, of course, which I outlined in an earlier post to which you predictably did not respond).
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BINGO!!! Of course that's true. There are people who are not registered to vote that sign petitions; they are not given a consequence when found out. Their names are simply dropped from the total. There is nothing on a petition document where the signer must certify they are a registered and legal voter.

This thread is a bunch of trash.

Grim said this was the work of Democrats when obviously it not.
He also states there 20,000 people involved when there are obviously many duplicates.
 
I know a couple of you liberals jumped on the nuance between electoral fraud and voter fraud. Under the law per Wisconsin they are in the same category: prohibited election practices. Actual voter fraud is a stiffer penalty but both are techinically election fraud in Wisconsin.

Here is the link and maybe some of you want to peruse it and understand whats being argued about better: http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/12.pdf

(3) PROHIBITED ACTS. No person may:
(a) Falsify any information in respect to or fraudulently deface
or destroy a certificate of nomination, nomination paper, declaration
of candidacy or petition for an election, including a recall
petition or petition for a referendum; or file or receive for filing a
certificate of nomination, nomination paper, declaration of candidacy
or any such petition, knowing any part is falsely made.
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Seems pertinent to this discussion.
 
Except signing a petition when you are ineligible to vote isn't any of that so it's not pertinent at all.

Falsify any information
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When one writes their real information down they are entering true information and therefore not falsifying anything

or fraudulently deface or destroy etc...
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Obviously not defacement or destruction of a petition.

or file or receive for filing a etc...
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The signer is not filing it nor receiving it for filing, the registrant is, so again not relevant.

A poor attempt at obfuscation.
 
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OpportunityCost said:
I know a couple of you liberals jumped on the nuance between electoral fraud and voter fraud. Under the law per Wisconsin they are in the same category: prohibited election practices. Actual voter fraud is a stiffer penalty but both are techinically election fraud in Wisconsin.

(3) PROHIBITED ACTS. No person may:
(a) Falsify any information in respect to or fraudulently deface
or destroy a certificate of nomination, nomination paper, declaration
of candidacy or petition for an election, including a recall
petition or petition for a referendum; or file or receive for filing a
certificate of nomination, nomination paper, declaration of candidacy
or any such petition, knowing any part is falsely made.
Click to expand...

Here is the link and maybe some of you want to peruse it and understand whats being argued about better: http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/12.pdf




Seems pertinent to this discussion.
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The act of signing a petition does not deface it. There is nowhere on the petition a declaration that a signer is a valid voter. However if you were a petitioner and someone came and defaced the petitions you have they could be prosecuted.
 
OpportunityCost said:
I know a couple of you liberals jumped on the nuance between electoral fraud and voter fraud. Under the law per Wisconsin they are in the same category: prohibited election practices. Actual voter fraud is a stiffer penalty but both are techinically election fraud in Wisconsin.

Here is the link and maybe some of you want to peruse it and understand whats being argued about better: http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/12.pdf



Seems pertinent to this discussion.
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How do you have VOTER FRAUD without any VOTES or without an ELECTION?
 
Due to our resident conservative lawyer bailing that damn quick in the thread I'd say the stink being raised by our favorite Grim is silly at best. More like sour grapes and bitter partisanship.

Let me see if my Okie ass understands this-
20,000 of 900,000 MAY be felons not eligible to vote but far more than enough to call for a new vote have been CERTIFIED.

So some highly partisan whiners will throw anything against the wall and hope it sticks.

It didn't :3oops:
 
notquiteright said:
[...] Let me see if my Okie ass understands this-
20,000 of 900,000 MAY be felons not eligible to vote but far more than enough to call for a new vote have been CERTIFIED.

So some highly partisan whiners will throw anything against the wall and hope it sticks. It didn't :3oops:
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Oh, it's much worse than that:

Grim17 said:
[...] Put Wisconsin First recently matched Wisconsin recaller’s names and addresses to Wisconsin Court Cases. There were over 400,000 matches of cases and charges from just over 900,000 signatures.
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So, as we can clearly see, over four hundred thousand criminals or accused criminals signed those petitions.... :lamo
 
pbrauer said:
The act of signing a petition does not deface it. There is nowhere on the petition a declaration that a signer is a valid voter. However if you were a petitioner and someone came and defaced the petitions you have they could be prosecuted.
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Quite frankly Pete you need to take a remedial reading course.

(3) PROHIBITED ACTS. No person may:
(a) Falsify any information in respect to or fraudulently deface
or destroy a certificate of nomination, nomination paper, declaration
of candidacy or petition for an election, including a recall
petition or petition for a referendum; or file or receive for filing a
certificate of nomination, nomination paper, declaration of candidacy
or any such petition, knowing any part is falsely made.
Click to expand...

Read the bold. Whether I like or dislike Grim's story, flasifying any information on a petition is, in fact, against the law in Wisconsin. Whether its prosecuted or not is an entirely different kettle of fish.
 
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