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NAACP backs gay marriage

Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

Daktoria said:
Burden of proof is on the affirmative.

It's not my job to make your argument.
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I successfully proved my points.

You're only reply was you not wanting to look at the source data.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

Jredbaron96 said:
I successfully proved my points.

You're only reply was you not wanting to look at the source data.
Click to expand...

My reply is you didn't show the source data.

It isn't my job to go digging in your treasure chest to find a pot of gold.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

Daktoria said:
It's not my job to look one ounce. Any looking I do would be a favor, not an obligation.

Again, you're just making a bunch of appeals to authority. If Dr. Soandso says the sky is green, are we supposed to believe him too?
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Oh good lord. I posted studies under the quote box.

You are what I like to call, "The False Scientist". A person on the internet who gets off on pretending to be scientific. In reality you don't care what the science says, you simply will argue that there is no evidence to support the contrary view and the more evidence a person provides, the more deliberate you will be to ignore it or you will move the burden of proof higher and higher.

I'm not going to waste my time trying to prove to you that same sex couples are just as good as opposite sex couples at raising children because you don't care and there is no way I could convince you of that case because you don't want to believe it.

I'm just going to let you continue to believe whatever you want to believe and I'll let reality sort it out. And since I know the evidence I know you will eventually be the one looking like an idiot holding to a view that same sex couples are inferior parents when it becomes more and more apparent in society that same sex couples are doing just as good a job. That is what I love about time and reality, it eventually sorts out the idiots.
 
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Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

Boo Radley said:
You might want to recheck that:

Immediately upon death each soul undergoes the particular judgment, and depending upon the state of the person's soul, goes to heaven, purgatory, or hell.

Last Judgment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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By judged, this is what I mean. If a person is a child of God, they will immediately be accepted into heaven upon death. No questions, no pointing out of their sins, nothing of that sort. If you read Revelations 11-12, which is in your source, it shows that the DEAD will be judged. Inidividuals going to Heaven are not considered dead because they were given everlasting life by the Lord when they accepted Him into their heart.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

MarineTpartier said:
By judged, this is what I mean. If a person is a child of God, they will immediately be accepted into heaven upon death. No questions, no pointing out of their sins, nothing of that sort. If you read Revelations 11-12, which is in your source, it shows that the DEAD will be judged. Inidividuals going to Heaven are not considered dead because they were given everlasting life by the Lord when they accepted Him into their heart.
Click to expand...

This assumes that you are right about what God really considers sins or not. Because if you are wrong, then you most likely committed sins that you might not realize were sins and be judged for those things.

I don't believe God is like the Bible describes. I believe He doesn't care two bits about people having sex unless the act is hurting someone. I don't believe that God requires people to believe in either the Bible or Jesus in order to reach heaven. I believe God looks down upon and even may consider it a sin to be unwilling to question your beliefs, particularly when there is some evidence to lead a person to question at least parts of what you are being told. So what if I'm right and not you? You would then be judged too.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

roguenuke said:
There is no way for you not to interpret the Bible. First of all, it has been translated from multiple languages to get into English. That requires some interpretation. Second, as I said, you have to look at how people of the time this was written would view things like same sex relationships and same sex sex that occurs for different reasons. Homosexuality, as a word, did not exist when the Bible scriptures were written. So someone just kinda guessed that word to be the right translation. You don't know if they are right and there are Biblical scholars who claim the translation is wrong.
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You fail to realize that the Dead Sea scrolls exist. Many studies have been done of current versions of Bibles. Good translations of the Bible, just like any other product in a free market, tend to rise to the top. Bible's such as the King James, New King James, North American Standard, etc have been vetted against the Dead Sea scrolls and found to be accurate. I will cede the fact that some minor words are different in those different versions of the Bible. However, the intent and purpose is not changed.
roguenuke said:
I don't believe in the Bible. My God comes from inside me and the faith I have in my experiences and knowledge of the world. I don't feel the need to believe some men from thousands of years ago who wrote stuff down and claimed it was from God. I can think for myself.
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I am aware you don't believe in the Bible and I believe that is the crux of this entire debate.
roguenuke said:
According to both the OT and the NT, men of the Bible and/or who wrote the Bible believed that God deemed women inferior in almost every way to men, including going so far as to demand that they should not be allowed to speak in church or teach the gospel.
God was more than okay with killing men, women and children, particularly in the OT. If those stories are not needed or don't represent the same God, then why keep them in the Bible. Do you believe God changed between the OT and the NT?
Click to expand...
God is God. He was, is, and will always be. So yes, it's the same God. God Himself did kill a lot of people in the OT. However, look at some examples of who He killed. Take Jericho, for instance. Those people burnt their sons and daughters as sacrifices to their gods. God took their city and gave it to a righteous people, the Israelites. Sodom and Gomorrah is another example. God allowed Abraham to "talk Him down" to the agreement that if he could find 10 righteous people in those cities, that God would spare them. The only people that made it out were Lot and his children.
roguenuke said:
And God himself, of the OT, committed genocide. He wiped out the entire human race according to one of those stories because they were all evil. He condemned the men, women, and children to die in Sodom to die for not being hospitable and/or turning from Him. He plagued a couple of kings and their families because Abraham and Sarah lied by not telling them she was his wife. God knew the kings didn't know this and yet He punished them anyway. That is wrong. And defending it by saying it was in the OT is a cop out. Again, did God change from the OT to the NT? Why?
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You answered your own question about why he killed the human race. Which He did not kill all of btw. Honestly, the only answer I can think of with my human mind about the second one is that if the King had been "walking" with God to begin with, the incident may not have happened. However, that is theory and I can't answer that. I won't act like I have the answer to everything. I have faith that my God is just and righteous and He did it for a justified reason.
roguenuke said:
Everyone is judged. Believers and non-believers. We will be judged on our actions, not our beliefs. How we lived our lives.
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According to Bible, this is incorrect. See the other post to Boo Radley about it.
roguenuke said:
No. It is all about what we believe. The Bible is not a book of facts. It requires faith to believe that those in the Bible who claim to be speaking for God are really doing so. There is nothing that proves that they are in fact speaking for what God wants.
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To me, it is a book of facts. As I said above, no other book has been vetted like the Bible has.
roguenuke said:
My mind is open. I can accept that you may be right, just as I can accept that many other religious beliefs may be right. I don't believe they are because my heart tells me that the God I believe in could not do things to people as described in the Bible. That sounds much more like something people would do or ascribe to God based on their own biases and beliefs, particularly during that time when those scriptures were written.
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He killed people. He is our Judge. Why is that hard to understand? Does your God allow everyone into his heaven? If so, you will be meeting Hitler and Stalin when you go. God has to judge. It's part of the job for lack of better words.
roguenuke said:
You are in fact judging me by trying to tell me that your interpretation and/or beliefs about the Bible are the only ones that are valid because you believe them to be so.
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Actually, judging you would be me saying that you are an idiot for believing what you believe. I am not doing that. I am merely stating my beliefs versus yours about the Bible.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

MarineTpartier said:
You fail to realize that the Dead Sea scrolls exist. Many studies have been done of current versions of Bibles. Good translations of the Bible, just like any other product in a free market, tend to rise to the top. Bible's such as the King James, New King James, North American Standard, etc have been vetted against the Dead Sea scrolls and found to be accurate. I will cede the fact that some minor words are different in those different versions of the Bible. However, the intent and purpose is not changed.

I am aware you don't believe in the Bible and I believe that is the crux of this entire debate.

God is God. He was, is, and will always be. So yes, it's the same God. God Himself did kill a lot of people in the OT. However, look at some examples of who He killed. Take Jericho, for instance. Those people burnt their sons and daughters as sacrifices to their gods. God took their city and gave it to a righteous people, the Israelites. Sodom and Gomorrah is another example. God allowed Abraham to "talk Him down" to the agreement that if he could find 10 righteous people in those cities, that God would spare them. The only people that made it out were Lot and his children.

You answered your own question about why he killed the human race. Which He did not kill all of btw. Honestly, the only answer I can think of with my human mind about the second one is that if the King had been "walking" with God to begin with, the incident may not have happened. However, that is theory and I can't answer that. I won't act like I have the answer to everything. I have faith that my God is just and righteous and He did it for a justified reason.

According to Bible, this is incorrect. See the other post to Boo Radley about it.

To me, it is a book of facts. As I said above, no other book has been vetted like the Bible has.

He killed people. He is our Judge. Why is that hard to understand? Does your God allow everyone into his heaven? If so, you will be meeting Hitler and Stalin when you go. God has to judge. It's part of the job for lack of better words.

Actually, judging you would be me saying that you are an idiot for believing what you believe. I am not doing that. I am merely stating my beliefs versus yours about the Bible.
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If the Bible was vetted, they did a horrible job at it. I have read it. It is contradictory and many of the stories absolutely do not have scientific evidence to support them. In fact, there are several that contradict scientific evidence, the flood/Ark, creation, and the people living centuries. We know that it takes two people to make a baby. If I were to believe the Bible, why should I not also believe the stories about the Greek Gods and what they supposedly did?

I cannot believe a book that contradicts science and itself in certain places. I question why things are. It is how God made me. So I have to question, which is more likely God inspired a book that is contradicted by science in many places or much of the Bible was written with the biases and personal beliefs of those men who wrote those things at the time. Many may have had good intentions and even believed they were inspired by God. I don't.
 
Then Al Sharpton slayed the Jabbawakky and flew off to save narnia
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

roguenuke said:
If the Bible was vetted, they did a horrible job at it. I have read it. It is contradictory and many of the stories absolutely do not have scientific evidence to support them. In fact, there are several that contradict scientific evidence, the flood/Ark, creation, and the people living centuries. We know that it takes two people to make a baby. If I were to believe the Bible, why should I not also believe the stories about the Greek Gods and what they supposedly did?

I cannot believe a book that contradicts science and itself in certain places. I question why things are. It is how God made me. So I have to question, which is more likely God inspired a book that is contradicted by science in many places or much of the Bible was written with the biases and personal beliefs of those men who wrote those things at the time. Many may have had good intentions and even believed they were inspired by God. I don't.
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A) Show me the contradictions.
B) Science according to who? Many scientists have disputed the carbon dating that is used to dispute the Bible's claims. There has been no dispute of whether the events the Bible says happened really did happen. The dispute has always been the time frame it occured in.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

MarineTpartier said:
A) Show me the contradictions.
B) Science according to who? Many scientists have disputed the carbon dating that is used to dispute the Bible's claims. There has been no dispute of whether the events the Bible says happened really did happen. The dispute has always been the time frame it occured in.
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Reputable scientists agree that the Earth is billions of years old and humans have been on the planet for around 200000 years, and that is just modern humans.

Age of the Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Evidence against a recent creation - RationalWiki
*note the references at the bottom of these with the links to evidences that support these articles

There is absolutely zero evidence to support a world wide flood, plus it would be absolutely impossible for Noah to have fit every living animal on the planet plus enough food for all of them onto the Ark. Along with the fact that he would have had to make several stops along the way to put the proper animals onto the continents that they ended up on. They certainly didn't swim back to their proper homes.

Problems with a Global Flood, 2nd edition

There is absolutely no way that earlier humans lived centuries longer than we now live.

Longevity, ageing, and life history of Homo sapiens
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

Oh, and I'd like to know how the hell infants and small children can be considered evil and deserving of God's wrath as described in both the flood and Sodom stories? I really don't like the fact that God decided to kill off those innocent children just because of what their parents may have done. There is no way that children that young, particularly infants were really evil. Of course, there really is no logical reason to believe that every frickin' person or even just the men in one city were all evil except those of one family, let alone the entire world. It really defies logic.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

MarineTpartier said:
By judged, this is what I mean. If a person is a child of God, they will immediately be accepted into heaven upon death. No questions, no pointing out of their sins, nothing of that sort. If you read Revelations 11-12, which is in your source, it shows that the DEAD will be judged. Inidividuals going to Heaven are not considered dead because they were given everlasting life by the Lord when they accepted Him into their heart.
Click to expand...

Accepted? If truely a person of God. Not judged? No. We answer for what we've done. We see it and know it, learn our errors (like being unfair with homosexuals).
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

roguenuke said:
Oh, and I'd like to know how the hell infants and small children can be considered evil and deserving of God's wrath as described in both the flood and Sodom stories? I really don't like the fact that God decided to kill off those innocent children just because of what their parents may have done. There is no way that children that young, particularly infants were really evil. Of course, there really is no logical reason to believe that every frickin' person or even just the men in one city were all evil except those of one family, let alone the entire world. It really defies logic.
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Small children are exempt from being responsible for their actions ie they are not required to have made the decision of whether to accept Christ into their heart or not. Those children automatically went to heaven. When a child is old enough to know the difference between right and wrong and understands the gravity of what God is, then he will face judgement. What age that is, I don't know. The Bible doesn't give an age. My guess, and it's only a guess, would be that God does it on a case by case basis. Some children are more mature and understand what's going on earlier than others. My son was 5 when he was saved and he fully understood why he was doing what he was doing.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

Boo Radley said:
Accepted? If truely a person of God. Not judged? No. We answer for what we've done. We see it and know it, learn our errors (like being unfair with homosexuals).
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I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Believers will not be judged according to their sins. Jesus died on the cross for them so that, if we believe in Him, we do not have to be judged.
Now, if you're speaking of the judgement regarding receiving rewards in heaven as a child of God, then that would be correct. But you aren't. You're speaking of being judged for our sins.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

roguenuke said:
Reputable scientists agree that the Earth is billions of years old and humans have been on the planet for around 200000 years, and that is just modern humans.

Age of the Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Evidence against a recent creation - RationalWiki
*note the references at the bottom of these with the links to evidences that support these articles

There is absolutely zero evidence to support a world wide flood, plus it would be absolutely impossible for Noah to have fit every living animal on the planet plus enough food for all of them onto the Ark. Along with the fact that he would have had to make several stops along the way to put the proper animals onto the continents that they ended up on. They certainly didn't swim back to their proper homes.

Problems with a Global Flood, 2nd edition

There is absolutely no way that earlier humans lived centuries longer than we now live.

Longevity, ageing, and life history of Homo sapiens
Click to expand...

Without getting into a source finding war, I'll just say this.
-Scientists thought the earth was flat for a long time. It was a given. It was undisputed. Then, all of a sudden, it wasn't.
-Scientists said there were canals on Mars and that meant there had to be life. This spawned many more "facts" about Mars. Well, once a better telescope came out, turns out they were just dust being blown across the lens of the old telescope.
-Scientists said all people were born with a blank slate personality. Parents and outside influences caused all behavior pros and cons. Well, the discovery of DNA debunked that. Heck, we discovered DNA in 1869 but scientists still ignored it until 1953.

Geologists and historians now just accept that carbon dating is accurate. They don't dispute it. So naturally, when you are using a flawed measuring unit, the dating is going to be off.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

MarineTpartier said:
Without getting into a source finding war, I'll just say this.
-Scientists thought the earth was flat for a long time. It was a given. It was undisputed. Then, all of a sudden, it wasn't.
-Scientists said there were canals on Mars and that meant there had to be life. This spawned many more "facts" about Mars. Well, once a better telescope came out, turns out they were just dust being blown across the lens of the old telescope.
-Scientists said all people were born with a blank slate personality. Parents and outside influences caused all behavior pros and cons. Well, the discovery of DNA debunked that. Heck, we discovered DNA in 1869 but scientists still ignored it until 1953.

Geologists and historians now just accept that carbon dating is accurate. They don't dispute it. So naturally, when you are using a flawed measuring unit, the dating is going to be off.
Click to expand...

You're not making any sense.

First of all, many scientists still believe that there is or could have been life on Mars and water on Mars. It may not be/have been sentient life, but it's still life.

'Compelling' evidence of life on Mars: Nasa - Times Of India
Epic search for evidence of life on Mars heats up with focus on high-tech instruments

Second, we are moving from believing that the Earth is young to believing it is older, it is highly unlikely that we will go back to believing it is young again without some pretty extensive evidence. There is a lot of evidence to believe the Earth is much older than the Bible says, not just carbon dating.

You are the one starting from the premise that the Earth is young and looking for as much evidence as possible to prove it must be because the Bible says so. The scientific evidence suggests otherwise though.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

MarineTpartier said:
Small children are exempt from being responsible for their actions ie they are not required to have made the decision of whether to accept Christ into their heart or not. Those children automatically went to heaven. When a child is old enough to know the difference between right and wrong and understands the gravity of what God is, then he will face judgement. What age that is, I don't know. The Bible doesn't give an age. My guess, and it's only a guess, would be that God does it on a case by case basis. Some children are more mature and understand what's going on earlier than others. My son was 5 when he was saved and he fully understood why he was doing what he was doing.
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I don't care if they went to heaven or not. God was cruel to destroy the world (or even just a city or two) and them with it just to destroy "the evil people", if the story is true.

Of course, since there is no evidence that a worldwide flood ever occurred, it is also unlikely that He actually did flood the whole world to destroy everyone. What is possible is that some guy in this region of Asia/the Middle East/Africa somehow predicted a flood for his area/region (maybe it was God who told him, who knows) and he saved himself, his family, and as many animals as he could. He likely never left the area he lived in so believed the Earth had flooded, but it was really just his region.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

roguenuke said:
You're not making any sense.
First of all, many scientists still believe that there is or could have been life on Mars and water on Mars. It may not be/have been sentient life, but it's still life.
'Compelling' evidence of life on Mars: Nasa - Times Of India
Epic search for evidence of life on Mars heats up with focus on high-tech instruments
Second, we are moving from believing that the Earth is young to believing it is older, it is highly unlikely that we will go back to believing it is young again without some pretty extensive evidence. There is a lot of evidence to believe the Earth is much older than the Bible says, not just carbon dating.
You are the one starting from the premise that the Earth is young and looking for as much evidence as possible to prove it must be because the Bible says so. The scientific evidence suggests otherwise though.
Click to expand...
The sense that is being made is that human beings are not perfect. Yes, it's true, scientists are human beings. They can make mistakes. I just showed some of the ones these all intelligent beings made. It's funny that you can't believe a book that has been vetted and has historic documents backing it but you will believe some dude you've never met. That's the funny part about this whole thing. You claim not to believe the Bible because "what if some guys from long ago just wrote it to fit their needs". Yet, you'll believe some other guy, whom you've also never met, never will meet, and who could possibly be in the same class as you accuse the writers of the Bible to be in. You're attempting to paint me as some sort of imbecile because I have faith in my God and His word yet you believe the words of some guy who went to college longer than you.
roguenuke said:
I don't care if they went to heaven or not. God was cruel to destroy the world (or even just a city or two) and them with it just to destroy "the evil people", if the story is true.

Of course, since there is no evidence that a worldwide flood ever occurred, it is also unlikely that He actually did flood the whole world to destroy everyone. What is possible is that some guy in this region of Asia/the Middle East/Africa somehow predicted a flood for his area/region (maybe it was God who told him, who knows) and he saved himself, his family, and as many animals as he could. He likely never left the area he lived in so believed the Earth had flooded, but it was really just his region.
Click to expand...

So God was cruel to destroy evil people but allow children into heaven? A better place that this earth could ever be?
This point reminds me. You never answered my question about your god. You act as though the god you believe in would never judge people and be so cruel. Do you plan to be in heaven with Hitler and Stalin? Are those men not evil? I base this on the premise that you believe in heaven. If not, then disregard the question.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

MarineTpartier said:
The sense that is being made is that human beings are not perfect. Yes, it's true, scientists are human beings. They can make mistakes. I just showed some of the ones these all intelligent beings made. It's funny that you can't believe a book that has been vetted and has historic documents backing it but you will believe some dude you've never met. That's the funny part about this whole thing. You claim not to believe the Bible because "what if some guys from long ago just wrote it to fit their needs". Yet, you'll believe some other guy, whom you've also never met, never will meet, and who could possibly be in the same class as you accuse the writers of the Bible to be in. You're attempting to paint me as some sort of imbecile because I have faith in my God and His word yet you believe the words of some guy who went to college longer than you.
Click to expand...

So why couldn't those who wrote the Bible also have erred or lied?

I may not have met those scientist, but I know that I can verify if what they are saying is true. Plus, I have seen the evidence for evolution. It doesn't take too much searching to see it. And I know from my experiences just living that it is nearly impossible that entire populations of people could all be evil. That just doesn't fit into reality.

MarineTpartier said:
So God was cruel to destroy evil people but allow children into heaven? A better place that this earth could ever be?
This point reminds me. You never answered my question about your god. You act as though the god you believe in would never judge people and be so cruel. Do you plan to be in heaven with Hitler and Stalin? Are those men not evil? I base this on the premise that you believe in heaven. If not, then disregard the question.
Click to expand...

Yes. Because why give people life just to take it away? The point of life is to live it, not to have it taken away just because the God who gave you that life decides those around you are evil.

My God doesn't take any direct hand in the world. He has given us everything we need and put into place what we need to take care of ourselves. He may help here and there, but doesn't actually involve Himself directly in the lives of men. And He certainly does not directly cause harm to people for vengeance or punishment. I believe in a God that is better than men. God judges people in the next life, not this one, for what we do in this one.
 
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Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

MarineTpartier said:
I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Believers will not be judged according to their sins. Jesus died on the cross for them so that, if we believe in Him, we do not have to be judged.
Now, if you're speaking of the judgement regarding receiving rewards in heaven as a child of God, then that would be correct. But you aren't. You're speaking of being judged for our sins.
Click to expand...

Hard to argue who's rigth or wrong as neither one of us can actually prove it. But I did link scholars and doctrine who say they will be. Not that they woould be admitted, but that there will be a judgement in which all your done is revealed and you know how wrong you were and how much hurt you caused. And see, I don't care a single bit about reward or punishment. I figured I've done enough to be guilty of more than a few things, and anythign reward is just cake. I wouldn't do anything if I didn't think this was the way to live life. And in my reading of the book, I hold sway with not judging because that isn't my place. The book I read speaks of compassion coming to the law (that's what the entire cross thingie is about). And in the book I read, loving and being fair is what the good Christians strives to be.

So you're half right. I'm not talking about rewards. But I'm also not talking about enterance into heaven either.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

roguenuke said:
So why couldn't those who wrote the Bible also have erred or lied?

I may not have met those scientist, but I know that I can verify if what they are saying is true. Plus, I have seen the evidence for evolution. It doesn't take too much searching to see it. And I know from my experiences just living that it is nearly impossible that entire populations of people could all be evil. That just doesn't fit into reality.
Click to expand...
You can verify it? How? Are you a geologist? Are you a scientist? Or do you just have FAITH that they are correct? Do you just have FAITH that the internet isn't leading you wrong?
As you have said on many different occassions, times were different back then. The population was spread out more and much thinner. A city could be out in the middle of nowhere with nothing around it. All humans are born sinners. We are all born "evil". Evil can be defined many ways but according to the Bible the tiniest of sins can send you to hell just as fast as Hitler. Why? Because by not accepting the Lord into your heart, you deny Him. Sins here on earth mean nothing compared to us denying him as our Creator and Savior. My argument here is that I believe an entire city could be evil. Especially back then when they were so isolated. I think it's very possible.

roguenuke said:
Yes. Because why give people life just to take it away? The point of life is to live it, not to have it taken away just because the God who gave you that life decides those around you are evil.
Click to expand...
Life doesn't end here for believers. This is a mere speck of time in what is eternal life for us. Expand your horizon when thinking on this subject and you'll see what I mean.
roguenuke said:
My God doesn't take any direct hand in the world. He has given us everything we need and put into place what we need to take care of ourselves. He may help here and there, but doesn't actually involve Himself directly in the lives of men. And He certainly does not directly cause harm to people for vengeance or punishment. I believe in a God that is better than men. God judges people in the next life, not this one, for what we do in this one.
Click to expand...
So your god does judge though?
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

Boo Radley said:
Hard to argue who's rigth or wrong as neither one of us can actually prove it. But I did link scholars and doctrine who say they will be. Not that they woould be admitted, but that there will be a judgement in which all your done is revealed and you know how wrong you were and how much hurt you caused. And see, I don't care a single bit about reward or punishment. I figured I've done enough to be guilty of more than a few things, and anythign reward is just cake. I wouldn't do anything if I didn't think this was the way to live life. And in my reading of the book, I hold sway with not judging because that isn't my place. The book I read speaks of compassion coming to the law (that's what the entire cross thingie is about). And in the book I read, loving and being fair is what the good Christians strives to be.

So you're half right. I'm not talking about rewards. But I'm also not talking about enterance into heaven either.
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Why would a loving God point out all of the hurt and pain you caused and then say "Okay, now that's over. Come on in!" That doesn't make sense at all. You see what I mean? Believers will receive rewards for their works as Christians and there will be a judgement for that. I don't know what those will be, only He does. I tend to think that just being there is awesome enough but I won't doubt Him lol.
And I'm with you on the judgement thing. As I have gotten older I have realized that is the one thing, above all others, that turns people away from Christians. People feel that Christians will judge them as soon as them meet them. And that is true to some extent. A lot of Christians are very guilty of that. It really ticks me off to see these pastors get up in front of their church and say the things they do about homosexuals. I have no problem with them preaching that being gay is wrong. There is scripture to back that and it should be taught just like any other scripture needs to be. But the hateful things they say are way over the top and not what God would want. I tell you this. If I am ever in a church where this occurs, I will be the first one out of the door and hope that the pastor asks me why I'm leaving.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

MarineTpartier said:
You can verify it? How? Are you a geologist? Are you a scientist? Or do you just have FAITH that they are correct? Do you just have FAITH that the internet isn't leading you wrong?
As you have said on many different occassions, times were different back then. The population was spread out more and much thinner. A city could be out in the middle of nowhere with nothing around it. All humans are born sinners. We are all born "evil". Evil can be defined many ways but according to the Bible the tiniest of sins can send you to hell just as fast as Hitler. Why? Because by not accepting the Lord into your heart, you deny Him. Sins here on earth mean nothing compared to us denying him as our Creator and Savior. My argument here is that I believe an entire city could be evil. Especially back then when they were so isolated. I think it's very possible.
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The problem you have is the fact that science disputes you and science means it is something that can be recreated. I can get the knowledge to be able to verify decay ages, or evolution, or tree lifespans or some of the other things that show the age of the Earth is really old. You cannot do the same with the Bible.

One of the issues you seem unable to accept is that I believe that it is much more likely that those guys back in the day actually were either just writing their own experiences or what they thought they knew or they lied in an effort to control other people. I prefer logic, something I feel God gave to us to use, instead of believing men who had a clear and powerful reason to write and put out what they did, control of other people, for good or bad.

Logic is my biggest evidence against the Bible. And not starting from the premise that the Bible is automatically the absolute word of God.

MarineTpartier said:
Life doesn't end here for believers. This is a mere speck of time in what is eternal life for us. Expand your horizon when thinking on this subject and you'll see what I mean.
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It doesn't end for what I believe either. In fact, it truly is just a small part of a soul's experience since I believe in reincarnation. But that doesn't mean I believe God would waste that life and opportunity for experience, by His choice, out of spite of vengeance. That sounds like something a man would be likely to believe God would be like a couple of thousand years ago because he couldn't otherwise explain why most of the people he knew, along with the plants and animals of that area, were being destroyed by water. So he decided to blame God.

MarineTpartier said:
So your god does judge though?
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After you each life, yes, everyone is judged for how they lived that life.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

MarineTpartier said:
Why would a loving God point out all of the hurt and pain you caused and then say "Okay, now that's over. Come on in!" That doesn't make sense at all. You see what I mean? Believers will receive rewards for their works as Christians and there will be a judgement for that. I don't know what those will be, only He does. I tend to think that just being there is awesome enough but I won't doubt Him lol.
And I'm with you on the judgement thing. As I have gotten older I have realized that is the one thing, above all others, that turns people away from Christians. People feel that Christians will judge them as soon as them meet them. And that is true to some extent. A lot of Christians are very guilty of that. It really ticks me off to see these pastors get up in front of their church and say the things they do about homosexuals. I have no problem with them preaching that being gay is wrong. There is scripture to back that and it should be taught just like any other scripture needs to be. But the hateful things they say are way over the top and not what God would want. I tell you this. If I am ever in a church where this occurs, I will be the first one out of the door and hope that the pastor asks me why I'm leaving.
Click to expand...

Because knowledge is important. Without that knowledge, a person might evolved into a self righteous asshole who seeks to unfairly discrimnate against people like homosexuals, or feel superior enough to judge. The knowledge of what we've done grounds us in humility, to know that it is but by the grace of God that we are not elsewhere.

As for scriputre to back that up, the best place to debunk that is at the library. Some very good books were written on that long ago that cast a lot of doubt on the scripture so oftened used. Many an interpretation is just plain wrong. But at worse, what the scripture really has to say on it is in doubt. I find it does no good to try and explain this to people who won't look, but if you have the desire to question, I suggest going to the library.
 
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