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NAACP backs gay marriage

Boo Radley said:
They are largely a political institution. So, saying they ahd political reasons is like saying the night is dark. It's really a nonissue. An organization can lead as well as represent.
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That's the thing, the NAACP used to mean something for black people. They used to stand up for their rights, hold meaningful protests, and stand up for what used to be an oppressed race. Now that their race has the rights they should, have nothing to protest, and are not oppressed, they should have focused on issues that continue to hold blacks back ie single parenthood, education, crime. Instead, the engage in political discourse and partisanship. It's a real shame honestly.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

MarineTpartier said:
No, the trend was, at the most, 39% of blacks approving of gay marriage. A trend that was slowly trending up but nowhere near 53%. Go back and look at the graphs you posted from the Huff Post and see what the trend was. It was nowhere near a 14% jump in one month. It was more like a 14% jump over a few years.
Who they polled is very important. If it was a nationwide poll, focusing on all blacks, then it means something. If was a state poll, of California for instance, or of a specific age group, 18-25 for instance, that makes a big difference. You can mold any poll to make it say what you want by selecting the proper geographical location or age group.
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And I still don't understand what your point to all this is. Does it really make a difference?

The trend was still going up in the community supporting same sex marriage. The trend was not likely to stop. The President coming out in support of same sex marriage, along with those other celebrities doing so, is very likely to increase that trend because people are influenced by influential people, whether it be the President, celebrities or others who they consider leaders of their community. It is likely that if we had famous people/celebrities coming out against same sex marriage, particularly ones who were viewed as important figures of a certain community, the trend for support would slow down.

I don't think the President's support, particularly not by itself, affected the black community support of ssm to a level of 53% averaged over the whole country. I do think that it increased the trend, particularly when in conjunction with the other endorsements from influential people within the black community.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

The fact that neither Obama nor Romney wants to make this a major campaign issue speaks volumes more than the NAACP announcement.

For the time being, gay marriage can no longer be used as a wedge issue. There are too many people on the Democrat side who oppose it and too many on the Republican side who support it.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

roguenuke said:
And I still don't understand what your point to all this is. Does it really make a difference?

The trend was still going up in the community supporting same sex marriage. The trend was not likely to stop. The President coming out in support of same sex marriage, along with those other celebrities doing so, is very likely to increase that trend because people are influenced by influential people, whether it be the President, celebrities or others who they consider leaders of their community. It is likely that if we had famous people/celebrities coming out against same sex marriage, particularly ones who were viewed as important figures of a certain community, the trend for support would slow down.

I don't think the President's support, particularly not by itself, affected the black community support of ssm to a level of 53% averaged over the whole country. I do think that it increased the trend, particularly when in conjunction with the other endorsements from influential people within the black community.
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The point is the NAACP is not doing their job and representing the black community's views. They came out in support of SSM simply because it was a good political move considering that the POTUS did the same thing.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

MarineTpartier said:
The point is the NAACP is not doing their job and representing the black community's views. They came out in support of SSM simply because it was a good political move considering that the POTUS did the same thing.
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Mission statement of the NAACP...

"The mission of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People is to ensure the political, educational, social, and economic equality of rights of all persons and to eliminate race-based discrimination."

Sorry, don't hear anything about "representing the black community's views" in that mission statement. Are you sure you have the right organization?
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

MarineTpartier said:
The point is the NAACP is not doing their job and representing the black community's views. They came out in support of SSM simply because it was a good political move considering that the POTUS did the same thing.
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They aren't required to represent the views of every member of the black community. They are not even required to represent the view of the majority of the black community. If you believe they are, show me some proof that they are required to do this. I'm pretty sure they aren't.

They are simply an organization that attempts to bring to light, for good or bad, things that mainly affect black people. This doesn't mean that the organization cannot have views on other issues that really aren't just black issues and are not in line with the general view of most blacks.

The NAACP are supposed to be leaders, not followers. So if they are at the head of a turn in support for an issue such as same sex marriage instead of putting out that support later, it is a good thing. They are leading the people, not simply representing the people. I may not always agree with them, but that doesn't mean that they aren't leaders of the community.
 
MarineTpartier said:
That's the thing, the NAACP used to mean something for black people. They used to stand up for their rights, hold meaningful protests, and stand up for what used to be an oppressed race. Now that their race has the rights they should, have nothing to protest, and are not oppressed, they should have focused on issues that continue to hold blacks back ie single parenthood, education, crime. Instead, the engage in political discourse and partisanship. It's a real shame honestly.
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I wouldn't go that far. I still see blacks denied jobs and housing due to race. Yes, things are better, much better, but that fight isn't completely over. And becasue so many don't see beyond the superficial, they lose a lot of support they could use. And that's a real shame.

But, that's a separate issue. No matter the reason here, they are correct. Be them leading or helping those who help them, the fact is they are on the right side. Fair is fair.
 
MarineTpartier

The point is the NAACP is not doing their job and representing the black community's views. They came out in support of SSM simply because it was a good political move considering that the POTUS did the same thing.
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AMEN. The NAACP nor the National Urban League represent the true interests of the black community anymore, the civil engagements that they get into mirror that of Tavis Smiley and Cornel West, it's just very left-wing rhetoric and agendas.

Black-on-black crime is through the roof, sure MARCH for Trayvon Martin getting shot by a "Latino" but what about the countless of other black youth that are shot down by other black youth? Where's their march?

75% of black households are single parent, where's the march on that?

44% of black boys graduate high school, where's the march on that?

A black guy out of TN gave birth to 30 kids and can't support none of them, where's the march on that?

It's a damn shame how what used to be a respected black community engaging institution, has turned into nothing more than another MSNBC. They support whatever President Obama supports, EVEN IF they never supported it before (like gay marriage), only because they want to be loyal to their political left-wing agenda.

There are STILL to this day a number of resource issues concerning the black community, and I'm not naive to think that there aren't resource issues. BUT that doesn't take away personal responsibility and that's not preached, marched out or written about a lot from these institutions MAINLY because it doesn't fit left-wing rhetoric. Left-wing rhetoric is all about how the "rich white man" is corrupting the country so of course any discussion on personal responsibility isn't allowed in the door.
 
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Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

CriticalThought said:
Mission statement of the NAACP...

"The mission of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People is to ensure the political, educational, social, and economic equality of rights of all persons and to eliminate race-based discrimination."

Sorry, don't hear anything about "representing the black community's views" in that mission statement. Are you sure you have the right organization?
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Nice try at a redirect. Its a well known fact that's what the NAACP does regardless of their "mission statement". Many roles are filled by many people that are not verbalized in a mission statement. I'll use the office of the POTUS as an example:

Throwing out the first pitch for the season for the Washington baseball team, the All Star game, or World Series
Execute agreements in regards to foreign relations
The POTUS is always recognized as the leaders of his particular party.
Pardoning the turkey every Thanksgiving

In understand some of those are nowhere near the level of representing a whole race of people, however, they do show things that the POTUS is responsible for that are not in his offical duties. Is throwing out the first pitch or pardoning the turkey that big of a deal? No, however, a big deal would be made if the POTUS broke those traditions. The same can be said for the NAACP. If they stopped representing the interests of black people they would essentially turn into the ACLU. We do have a need for an organization like the ACLU but that's not what the NAACP is about. They would also be subject to much criticism for failing to do their unoffical duty.
 
John Tucker said:
AMEN. The NAACP nor the National Urban League represent the true interests of the black community anymore, the civil engagements that they get into mirror that of Tavis Smiley and Cornel West, it's just very left-wing rhetoric and agendas.

Black-on-black crime is through the roof, sure MARCH for Trayvon Martin getting shot by a "Latino" but what about the countless of other black youth that are shot down by other black youth? Where's their march?

75% of black households are single parent, where's the march on that?

44% of black boys graduate high school, where's the march on that?

A black guy out of TN gave birth to 30 kids and can't support none of them, where's the march on that?

It's a damn shame how what used to be a respected black community engaging institution, has turned into nothing more than another MSNBC. They support whatever President Obama supports, EVEN IF they never supported it before (like gay marriage), only because they want to be loyal to their political left-wing agenda.

There are STILL to this day a number of resource issues concerning the black community, and I'm not naive to think that there aren't resource issues. BUT that doesn't take away personal responsibility and that's not preached, marched out or written about a lot from these institutions MAINLY because it doesn't fit left-wing rhetoric. Left-wing rhetoric is all about how the "rich white man" is corrupting the country so of course any discussion on personal responsibility isn't allowed in the door.
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The NAACP talks about these issues constantly. What universe are you living in!?
 
Deuce said:
The NAACP talks about these issues constantly. What universe are you living in!?
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Not everyone gets the NAACP daily talking points or their weekly newsletter. :shrug:
 
Ockham said:
Not everyone gets the NAACP daily talking points or their weekly newsletter. :shrug:
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People who pay no attention to what the NAACP does probably shouldn't make major declarations about what the NAACP does.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

MarineTpartier said:
Nice try at a redirect. Its a well known fact that's what the NAACP does regardless of their "mission statement". Many roles are filled by many people that are not verbalized in a mission statement. I'll use the office of the POTUS as an example:

Throwing out the first pitch for the season for the Washington baseball team, the All Star game, or World Series
Execute agreements in regards to foreign relations
The POTUS is always recognized as the leaders of his particular party.
Pardoning the turkey every Thanksgiving

In understand some of those are nowhere near the level of representing a whole race of people, however, they do show things that the POTUS is responsible for that are not in his offical duties. Is throwing out the first pitch or pardoning the turkey that big of a deal? No, however, a big deal would be made if the POTUS broke those traditions. The same can be said for the NAACP. If they stopped representing the interests of black people they would essentially turn into the ACLU. We do have a need for an organization like the ACLU but that's not what the NAACP is about. They would also be subject to much criticism for failing to do their unoffical duty.
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The NAACP has gone against the "views of the black community" on many occasions in its history. The NAACP's tradition is to side with those who face unjust discrimination.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

CriticalThought said:
The NAACP has gone against the "views of the black community" on many occasions in its history. The NAACP's tradition is to side with those who face unjust discrimination.
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As long as they're black, right?
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

CriticalThought said:
You do realize that there are gay people who are black, right?
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You do realize that most black people don't approve of homosexuality right?
That wasn't even the reason I said that anyway. I said it in response to your statment "The NAACP's tradition is to side with those who face unjust discrimination." As long as they are black, right? As in, they represent the black community.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

MarineTpartier said:
You do realize that most black people don't approve of homosexuality right?
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I would have to see your statistics. I know they don't support same sex marriage, but I'm not sure where they stand on homosexuality.

That wasn't even the reason I said that anyway. I said it in response to your statment "The NAACP's tradition is to side with those who face unjust discrimination." As long as they are black, right? As in, they represent the black community.
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The have come out in support of women's rights, immigrant's rights, and LGBT rights.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

CriticalThought said:
I would have to see your statistics. I know they don't support same sex marriage, but I'm not sure where they stand on homosexuality.
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I posted them earlier in the thread. I want to say on the first page. Some polls show 70% of blacks disapprove of homosexuality.

CriticalThought said:
The have come out in support of women's rights, immigrant's rights, and LGBT rights.
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You have any links to that? Not doubting you. I'd actually like to see it.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

MarineTpartier said:
You do realize that most black people don't approve of homosexuality right?
That wasn't even the reason I said that anyway. I said it in response to your statment "The NAACP's tradition is to side with those who face unjust discrimination." As long as they are black, right? As in, they represent the black community.
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It's not a contradiction for the NAACP to support same-sex marriage. They seek to do what they feel is right for the black community. This doesn't make them beholden to any particular moral belief that happens to be shared by the majority of black people.

MarineTpartier said:
You have any links to that? Not doubting you. I'd actually like to see it.
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You mean other than supporting same-sex marriage? :D
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

Deuce said:
It's not a contradiction for the NAACP to support same-sex marriage. They seek to do what they feel is right for the black community. This doesn't make them beholden to any particular moral belief that happens to be shared by the majority of black people.
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I don't know about them, but I wouldn't want an organization that is supposed to be acting in my best interest deciding what they feel is right for me. That's just me though. I'm not black so I can't relate to the relationship between the NAACP and the black community.
Deuce said:
You mean other than supporting same-sex marriage? :D
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I hate you.:3oops:
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

MarineTpartier said:
I don't know about them, but I wouldn't want an organization that is supposed to be acting in my best interest deciding what they feel is right for me. That's just me though. I'm not black so I can't relate to the relationship between the NAACP and the black community.

I hate you.:3oops:
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If you were a black person who felt this way, I imagine the NAACP might respond with "This isn't about you. We're not deciding anything for you."

Because, shocker, sometimes the NAACP has opinions about things other than black people and their well-being.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

Deuce said:
If you were a black person who felt this way, I imagine the NAACP might respond with "This isn't about you. We're not deciding anything for you."

Because, shocker, sometimes the NAACP has opinions about things other than black people and their well-being.
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I would say, "Fine with me, you are not the preeminent organization in regards to the black community anymore. Have a nice day."
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

MarineTpartier said:
You do realize that most black people don't approve of homosexuality right?
That wasn't even the reason I said that anyway. I said it in response to your statment "The NAACP's tradition is to side with those who face unjust discrimination." As long as they are black, right? As in, they represent the black community.
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I still say that doesn't matter. Taking the rigth stand is leading.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

Boo Radley said:
I still say that doesn't matter. Taking the rigth stand is leading.
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Right according to who? The NAACP? When the people they represent disagree? Right is relative in this country many times. Especially when speaking of something such as SSM.
 
Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

MarineTpartier said:
I would say, "Fine with me, you are not the preeminent organization in regards to the black community anymore. Have a nice day."
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Some probably will say that, but I suspect not many. An organization like the NAACP doesn't get dumped just because it does one thing that people disagree with. Most people aren't "single-issue voters" like that. Hardly anyone actually thinks same-sex marriage is the biggest issue of the day.
 
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