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Über Rich Renouncing U.S Citizenship as IRS Cracks Down on Tax Evaders [W:209]

During the Gilded Age why do you think Carnegie, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt didn't renounce US citizenship? No, it wasn't because they were great and wonderful patriots. It was because the US had a high Tariff in place so we weren't subsidizing our competitors, and the US didn't have troops in every other country on the planet and subsidizing their defense.

If a Robber Baron moved to Germany, and then the Franco-Prussian war broke out, they would have been paying lots of taxes. If a Robber Baron moved to China, tried to manufacture something there, they would be paying Tariffs to export to the US and probably lose everything in the constant wars that took place in China a century ago.

This is pure globalism in action. Go Isolationist and pass a high Tariff, or shut fug up.
 
Truthfully, the amount of government that needs to be cut is beyond our current capacity to do so.

As well the unions are so powerful that they could stop the country from functioning tomorrow.

In many third world countries Union leaders are far more powerful than the Presidents because they are there for life ( in theory anyway) whereas presidents come and go. Many of the first world democracies, and States, Provinces and cities within them, have reached the same situation.
 
Yes, you're right, this is very serious. We should have given them more money during the bail outs and let them break more laws.

Do you have any evidence whatsoever that all the rich people in the country broke any laws? And who supports bailouts? That's just crony capitalism and the consumer and the taxpayers always suffer. Which president is now sleeping with the head of GE? Can you understand why?

In seriousness, you could lower their taxes to 5% and if surcharges didn't cost them more they would still engage in tax evasion of any kind they could. That's what their profession psychologically conditions them to do; save and make money through nook and every crevice they can exploit.

So now you accuse them of tax evasion, you have access to their psychological tests, yet this is the serious part.

I see a dark future for America if this is genuinely centrist thought.
 
This is mine and it's true. Got a problem with the truth?



Smart people with leadership skills are not that easily replaced.

If your criteria is only that can make themselves understood and walk upright then you are correct.
 
Okay, "super rich" nonsense aside...

If you voluntarily offer to terminate your citizenship of any given country for any reason, and if you do so in a legal manner, I think any future activity in the country should be done as though you're an alien. All paperwork, processes, investigations, and requirements applied to other foreigners coming into the country should apply to the former citizen.

If you voluntarily offer to terminate your citizenship for nefarious reasons or while simultaneously committing crimes against the citizens of the country you should be flagged for immediate capture and holding if you re-enter the country so you can face the legal consequences of your criminal actions.

:shrug:

Or you can cross over from Mexico.
 
you people are the ones wanting to sanction people for renouncing citizenship... the message is clear. " stay here or you will be punished"

More like stay here so the government can take more of your money and give it to me. I am jealous of you, I despise you, and I want to use my government to punish you so I can have more stuff. But don't dare leave.
 
Rock stars left the UK during the "British invasion" of pop music, largely due to ridiculously high taxes, and mostly to America's benefit. Now the Americans, apparently unaware and uninfluenced by history, are also encouraging their best, brightest and richest to leave.

We welcome them to Canada and I'm happy to see many of them settling in Costa Rica as well.

It's the governments who are the greedy pigs, by the way, with their faces in the trough, an inability to balance a budget, and a recklessness in spending that will eventually bring the country down to its knees.

Nice try grant...but for every rich one that leaves...it makes room for another to make themselves rich...and what we need is laws..to assure when the leave, they dont leave with all of it...and they cant come back...and If i may tell you...theres alot of rich canadians in florida that escaped canada....
 
I do enjoy the liberal positions exhibited in the thread though.

1. For renouncing citizenship in a free country, they should be given 20 years hard labor.

That was me who said that. I'm not a liberal. In fact, I'm quite opposed to liberalism. Get your facts straight.
 
I do enjoy the liberal positions exhibited in the thread though.

1. For renouncing citizenship in a free country, they should be given 20 years hard labor.

And one more thing: I didn't say that they should be punished for renouncing their citizenship; I said they should be punished for tax evasion.
 
I'm going to ignore future posts that phrase their arguments in the form of questions. Either argue your position or don't.

Do you have any evidence whatsoever that all the rich people in the country broke any laws?

Why Prosecutors Don't Go After Wall Street : NPR

Official guidelines of the Justice Department post-2008 are not to prosecute white collar crime very severely because it would obtrude on economic development.


And who supports bailouts?

People who have stakes in the insurance and financing industries in which our entire economy is absorbed. Specifically rich people.


That's just crony capitalism and the consumer and the taxpayers always suffer.

You don't have a great deal of choice when the upper-income brackets hold your country's status as an economic superpower hostage.

Which president is now sleeping with the head of GE? Can you understand why?

The auto-mobile industry is kind of peripheral to this. I'm guessing you're trying to make a point about Obama's relationship to corporations.

Obama enjoys no special relationship to Wall Street; the Washington system is set up so that you have to play ball with corporations if you want to achieve anything because of the inordinate influence of their lobbying power.

Obama is certainly less sympathetic to Wall-Street than say, Mitt Romney will be, or George Bush was. But he has no choice when Wall-Street owns Congress.

So now you accuse them of tax evasion, you have access to their psychological tests, yet this is the serious part.

I see a dark future for America if this is genuinely centrist thought.

... why else would they renounce their U.S. citizenship besides not wanting to pay taxes? And the spiritual and mental anguish of having to be somewhat higher taxes after enjoying historically low levels at the public expense isn't a very credible excuse, especially when they were already evading taxes at the historically low rates anyway, because of the new opportunities of a global market.
 
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You have a choice really. Renounce your citizenenship to avoid taxes or donate to charity to avoid taxes like what Bill Gates did.
 
Hey man, I've seen more than one liberal on this site telling us (libertarians) to just leave if we don't like being taxed to death, so don't go on about how libertarians aren't playing nice boys and girls. The general attitude of libs on this site is that instead of controlling spending by government, and reigning in what is going to break us financially, WE shoud just leave. The problem with that attitude is that if those of us paying the bills were to all leave, this country wouldn't last 1 year.

I support
1- cutting spending by at least $300 billion a year
2- raising taxes on ALL American earners
3- letting anybody leave who does not like that system

so please do not lump all people together in one not so nice nice and very unneat category.
 
the rich already pay an exit tax... so there is no need for a new law
expatriating in order to evade taxes already carries a punishment of banning the person from the country... no need for a new on that either.

congresscritter should know current law before they go making up redundant laws.
as it is now, when you renounce your citizenship,and are rich, you are levied a tax on all of your unrealized capital gains... they pretend you sell all of your assets and tax you on the gains ( which is why it's best to leave during a market downturn, as values on assets have fallen)
you are also susceptible to a 30% withholding tax on income.
( of course, you won't be getting all that money you put into SS back... but folks are ok with that too, as expatriates are evil criminals)

it's very expensive to renounce your citizenship...Uncle Sam makes sure you are punished for leaving the US... and somehow, liberals enjoy the thought of punishing people for leaving this society and striking out in a new one.. 'cuz liberals are all about freedom and self determination and stuff.
 
I'm going to ignore future posts that phrase their arguments in the form of questions. Either argue your position or don't.



Why Prosecutors Don't Go After Wall Street : NPR

Official guidelines of the Justice Department post-2008 are not to prosecute white collar crime very severely because it would obtrude on economic development.




People who have stakes in the banking, insurance, and financing industries. Specifically rich people.




You don't have a great deal of choice when the upper-income brackets hold your country's status as an economic superpower hostage.



The auto-mobile industry is kind of peripheral to this. I'm guessing you're trying to make a point about Obama's relationship to corporations.

Obama enjoys no special relationship to Wall Street; the Washington system is set up so that you have to play ball with corporations if you want to achieve anything because of the inordinate influence of their lobbying power.

Obama is certainly less sympathetic to Wall-Street than say, Mitt Romney will be, or George Bush was. But he has no choice when Wall-Street owns Congress.



... why else would they renounce their U.S. citizenship besides not wanting to pay taxes? And the spiritual and mental anguish of having to be somewhat higher taxes after enjoying historically low levels at the public expense isn't a very credible excuse.

Corporations and corporate people have always gotten away with breaking the law...not only dont they vigorously prosecute, they dont even look for any wrongdoing till it falls in their lap...enron..worldcom...bernie madhoff....and all us lesser humans get hammered and are told you break the law you pay the price...unless your rich that is...
 
Well, what you propose is called fascism. Why the hell would you want ot put someone in a "penal camp" who used their brain and drive to succeed? Aren't these the type of people we should encourage to stay in this country?

When their brains and drive are used to fragrantly violate the law, there must be severe consequences. These people shouldn't be encouraged to stay here any more than common criminals, in fact much less so. If they want to live abroad and renounce their citizenship, let them. But first they must pay for their crimes against the state and the proletariat.
 
When their brains and drive are used to fragrantly violate the law, there must be severe consequences. These people shouldn't be encouraged to stay here any more than common criminals, in fact much less so. If they want to live abroad and renounce their citizenship, let them. But first they must pay for their crimes against the state and the proletariat.

Except there is no crime. What law has been violated? Has the IRS sent an indictment for violation of any of the US tax code? Is that the motivation for him to expatriate?

Saverin has done absolutely nothing wrong. He made choice which was solely his to make. He's probably paid more in federal taxes that any 100 of the posters on this site combined will pay in a lifetime! Hardly someone who's "sh!tting" on this country as he departed.

Lastly, he will pay all the taxes obligated at the time of his departure. As stated in this thread, he's required to pay taxes on all his assets at the time expatriation.
 
Banishment is not going to change these people. They used the "American dream" to get where they are, and now they want to discard this country like a used piece of toilet paper. Twenty years of hard labor in a penal camp should teach them the proper amount of respect for working people and the lower and middle class citizens of this country.

The American dream, really, an anti- capitalist anti- democracy socialist talking about the American dream. Don't you want to destroy the American Dream?

 
Countries are meant to protect the rights and liberties of the people. There is no connection between the individual person and the country as a whole that is worth honorable mention. I use the economy and the market to my favor and when I done with it I can throw it out and call myself done with it. There should be nothing that ties me here or there as I should be free to go where I want whenever I want. That goes for anyone here. If the chance comes to you and you want to leave, leave. It is your right.

And there is no such thing as the American dream.

But there seems to be an increasing number of cheap SOB's that think they can take it with them. I hope they choke.
 
Countries are meant to protect the rights and liberties of the people. There is no connection between the individual person and the country as a whole that is worth honorable mention. I use the economy and the market to my favor and when I done with it I can throw it out and call myself done with it. There should be nothing that ties me here or there as I should be free to go where I want whenever I want. That goes for anyone here. If the chance comes to you and you want to leave, leave. It is your right.

And there is no such thing as the American dream.

Do you feel the same way about illegal immigration?
 
But there seems to be an increasing number of cheap SOB's that think they can take it with them. I hope they choke.

Cheap!?!?! Do you have any idea the ballpark of Saverin's tax payment upon doing this? Depending on how the IRS treats his RSUs which they've indicated they're gonna tax it as ordinary income. So at the time he announced this, back in September (funny this is suddenly popping up almost 9 months later) his share was estimated at about $4.6 billion. Not sure what his other holdings are but FB alone, his tax bill is gonna be around just shy of $1.4 billion dollars. Is that not "fair share" enough. What? Should it be 40%....50%. Sh!t, some would have them take it all!

Friggin sad how some in this country and government view other people's money, which they had nothing to do with earning, as something they're entitled to.
 
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