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Some pilots shun F-22 over oxygen-related dangers

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PeteEU

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Some pilots shun F-22 over oxygen-related dangers | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

But top brass at the Hampton base, home to the service's Air Combat Command and two Raptor squadrons, aren't really celebrating the milestone. They're too busy trying to figure out why some F-22 pilots aren't getting enough oxygen in the cockpit.
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err.. kinda important no.. to be able to breath while flying?

While I admit it looks cool.. the price tag is huge, and as far as I understand it... the plane before it is even delivered to the US military, needs a freaking upgrade.. expensive upgrade, so it can use the weapon systems that the rest of the US planes use.. what the f...

And people wonder why the US government is so broke...
 
PeteEU said:
Some pilots shun F-22 over oxygen-related dangers | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com



err.. kinda important no.. to be able to breath while flying?

While I admit it looks cool.. the price tag is huge, and as far as I understand it... the plane before it is even delivered to the US military, needs a freaking upgrade.. expensive upgrade, so it can use the weapon systems that the rest of the US planes use.. what the f...

And people wonder why the US government is so broke...
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12,000 missions and 11 reported instances of 02 deprivation... ONE of them being fatal. Not that this is not a problem, and with so many other planes not experiencing this problem at all, obviously a fixable one, but... 12k sorties and 11 instances.... not sure of the percentage here, but its .0000 something. To me this is a case that contractors are making for the scaled back f-22 program in place of the f-35 which is a total blunder and at double the cost.
 
00timh said:
12,000 missions and 11 reported instances of 02 deprivation... ONE of them being fatal. Not that this is not a problem, and with so many other planes not experiencing this problem at all, obviously a fixable one, but... 12k sorties and 11 instances.... not sure of the percentage here, but its .0000 something. To me this is a case that contractors are making for the scaled back f-22 program in place of the f-35 which is a total blunder and at double the cost.
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For an oxygen system that is an outrageous failure rate.
 
Deuce said:
For an oxygen system that is an outrageous failure rate.
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IF... all 11 instances were each in a different F-22, that still leaves 168 of the 180 F-22's that have not encountered this issue. That the oxygen system which has been used for over 50 years has been nearly flawless, that there is such an issue with the F-22 is not acceptable and an easy fixable problem. I am however pointing out that a pilot flying the F-22 faces a .0009% chance of experiencing hypoxia. Only once has that been serious enough to lead to fatality, that number shrinks another 10x of the chance of death because of this. All planes have integral failure issues such as engine failure, instrumentation failure,etc... all far more common and with much greater potential for death.

While I have no basis to back this up, my hunch is that due to the fact that the F-22 is a unique in its maneuvering ability, some of the pilots who are reporting hypoxia were blacking out from the extreme g-loads they are supposed to be physically trained for and practice. Some may not be as in shape for this plane as they are suppose to be and are blaming it on an unexplained and extremely infrequent and random phenomena that cannot yet be identified.
 
00timh said:
IF... all 11 instances were each in a different F-22, that still leaves 168 of the 180 F-22's that have not encountered this issue. That the oxygen system which has been used for over 50 years has been nearly flawless, that there is such an issue with the F-22 is not acceptable and an easy fixable problem. I am however pointing out that a pilot flying the F-22 faces a .0009% chance of experiencing hypoxia. Only once has that been serious enough to lead to fatality, that number shrinks another 10x of the chance of death because of this. All planes have integral failure issues such as engine failure, instrumentation failure,etc... all far more common and with much greater potential for death.

While I have no basis to back this up, my hunch is that due to the fact that the F-22 is a unique in its maneuvering ability, some of the pilots who are reporting hypoxia were blacking out from the extreme g-loads they are supposed to be physically trained for and practice. Some may not be as in shape for this plane as they are suppose to be and are blaming it on an unexplained and extremely infrequent and random phenomena that cannot yet be identified.
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The F-22 is capable of some unique maneuvers, but the total g factor is still limited to the same as any other fighter. The flight control computers are designed to prevent too many g's. The unique part about the F-22 is the thrust vectoring, which could bring about forces along different axes than the pilots are used to.

The reason that failure rate for an oxygen system is outlandish is because it's a pretty simple system (on most planes anyway, I'm obviously not familiar with the F-22 oxygen system). Also, the actual failure rate is probably higher - a system could deliver less oxygen than it's supposed to and the pilot might not notice. Hypoxia can be incredibly subtle, hence the recommendation of the pulse oximeter. One of the first things to go with hypoxia is your judgment, which makes it really hard for you to diagnose your own symptoms.
 
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