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Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens[W:165; 667]

Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

Josie said:
Me too. Christians follow Christ. True Christians aren't bigots. They might disagree with someone who is immoral in their eyes, but they don't persecute them for it. These people bullying gays aren't being Christ-like. Their actions don't come from their studies of Christ, but from hate.
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Why aren't they true Christians?
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

Matt Foley said:
You know what's worse than a drunk preacher? A liberal one.
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Moderator's Warning:
You know what's worse than making an off-topic comment like this? Getting thread banned for it. Do it again, and you'll find out how this feels.
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

ThePlayDrive said:
Why aren't they true Christians?
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Because that's not how Christians act. They're supposed to be Christ-like. Christ didn't promote hate. (Think: Westboro bigots)
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

nota bene said:
He condemned Christians' Book.

And what he said was off-topic. He was invited to speak on alternative social media and using them to get the anti-bullying message out/raise awareness. He failed. He could have shared his expertise in using social media to help the budding journalists in his audience (whether they agree with his POV or not). He didn't. Instead, he indulged himself in a rant about one of his fave topics. We all know lecturers who do this instead of sticking to the topic. And that's what he did.
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He condemned the book within the context of saying, "we can ignore the parts about homosexuality like we ignore the parts about shellfish". That's fair.

This was only part of his speech - a valid part that much of the audience agreed with. He could have been more respectful, but then again, would we even care about respect if we were talking about other kids of bigotry.
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

Josie said:
Me too. Christians follow Christ. True Christians aren't bigots. They might disagree with someone who is immoral in their eyes, but they don't persecute them for it. These people bullying gays aren't being Christ-like. Their actions don't come from their studies of Christ, but from hate.
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Except.....that the recent cases of bullying that has lead to suicides....were being done by "christians" using quotations from the Bible in their bullying.

Hence the comments to journalist HS students.....who have an interest in this current topic.
 
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Gimmesometruth said:
There is the problem with your argument, the assumption that he is condemning all of the Bible, all of christianity. He is not.
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That is not a problem with my argument. He clearly was condemning the bible by calling it "BS". I don't know if he condemns all of Christianity, but his presentation gave that impression. If he wants to be heard, that's a poor way to do it.


Again, if a christian can't handle challenges, provocative or otherwise, then it is a weak structure. If one cannot handle having a belief system challenged, then they should stay indoors, away from the intertubes and whatnot.
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There's a difference between challenges and attacks. He did the latter. And it's not about "handling" it. You want to be heard, don't attack. He did. Poor presentation.
 
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Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

Gimmesometruth said:
Except.....that the recent cases of bullying that has lead to suicides....were being done by "christians" using quotations from the Bible in their bullying.
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And? Just because you go "vroom, vroom!" doesn't mean you're a Ferrari.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
I don't want to be associated with folks I once considered reasonable, who stood up for themselves, who now cave and support irrational positions.
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That's just plain ridiculous. I read what YS said last night. It was too aggressive and she was wrong. She admitted it and that is something that rarely happens here, hence is quite a feat. YOU are being unreasonable because you are making personal evaluations based on whether you agree with someone's position or not.
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

Gimmesometruth said:
In other words, you really don't have anything to say on the subject at hand....OK.
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I already posted what was relevant.
"The "root", is in homosexuals being different, or if you will, outside the norm."​


It was you who took exception to what I said.

I corrected your exception.
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

Josie said:
Because that's not how Christians act. They're supposed to be Christ-like. Christ didn't promote hate. (Think: Westboro bigots)
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Right, but presumably they aren't acting like Christians because they are committing a sin condemned by Christianity - being hateful, etc.. However, all Christians are sinful. So if sinning, even in the worst way, makes someone not a "true Christian," then no one is a "true Christian."

My point with this is that bigoted Christians are "true Christians." They are sinners like all people. They are true Christians who have decided to use the Bible in an illogical manner to hurt other people just like some Christians use the Bible in a logical manner to help other people.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Geez, you came into this discussion without understanding the basics of the debate?

Sigh.
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No, I completely understood the debate. My initial comment was towards YOU and your fallacy of position. It had nothing to do with the video. Once I decided to address the content of the video I watched it and did so. One does not need to focus on the content in order to demonstrate that someone's logic is off... which is what my initial post towards you addressed.

So, tell me... anything to say about what I said in post #220?
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

Josie said:
And? Just because you go "vroom, vroom!" doesn't mean you're a Ferrari.
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now that cracked me up...lol
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

Harry Guerrilla said:
We'll have to agree, to disagree then.

I don't remember Jesus saying, beat up and harass gay people.
Christians are primarily following the teaching of Jesus.
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My comments aren't about Jesus. They are about bigoted Christians and the irrational way in which they use their religion. You written yet another comment that coexists and yet does not contradict my arguments.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
That is not a problem with my argument. He clearly was condemning the bible by calling it "BS". I don't know if he condemns all of Christianity, but his presentation gave that impression. If he wants to be heard, that's a poor way to do it.
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You go ahead and find me the money quote where he condemned ALL of the Bible, ALL of chritianity. I'll wait for you to back that claim.




There's a difference between challenges and attacks. He did the latter. And it's not about "handling" it. You want to be heard, don't attack. He did. Poor presentation.
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It is your opinion that saying "you are a hypocrite if you are a christian and condemn homosexuals" is an "attack" upon ALL of the Bible, all "christians", ALL of christianity. I get it.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
That's just plain ridiculous. I read what YS said last night. It was too aggressive and she was wrong. She admitted it and that is something that rarely happens here, hence is quite a feat. YOU are being unreasonable because you are making personal evaluations based on whether you agree with someone's position or not.
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Ohhh man I hope I make it through the night tonight...Ive actually agreed with all your posts in this thread :)
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

Gimmesometruth said:
Except.....that the recent cases of bullying that has lead to suicides...
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Except that really isn't the case.
What lead to suicides were unstable minds.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I REALLY didn't even want to watch the video, because I knew I'd probably want to comment on it. Just been reading the thread since it's inception. OK. I watched the video. I have mixed feelings about it. Firstly, from what I saw, it seemed that the students leaving was a planned event. Too neat. And, at least from what I saw him saying, initially, I really didn't see anything incredibly offensive... and I am probably one of the most religious members on this board. However, my problem with what he was saying was that he was NOT discussing the root causes of hatred towards homosexuality. He was bashing the bible. If he wanted to discuss the root causes, he should have gone a different route. Probably should have discussed the REAL meanings of Leviticus and other passages, indicated how it's not the belief system, but what people take from it that matters, and how the root cause is really a dependency on religion to foster beliefs about sexuality rather than science and research. If he's talking about bullying, he need to present "tools' on how to confront it. You do this by proving people wrong, not by telling people their beliefs or "book" is BS. Overall, I saw the situation as a wash. Not as bad as some have presented, but not really appropriate for the conference.

Oh, and with a presentation like his, he wouldn't last a minute at DP. ;)
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I think that's a fair analysis. He presented his argument in a less than eloquent way that was bound upset some people. However, he did talk about what people take from Christianity. His entire point about it was that there are many passages that we don't pay attention to because we think they're ridiculous and the passages about homosexuality should be included. He said in a much more aggressive way, but he was right and people doing that is, in fact, a root cause of Christian-based anti-gay bigotry.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
You go ahead and find me the money quote where he condemned ALL of the Bible, ALL of chritianity. I'll wait for you to back that claim.
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Didn't say Christianity. He went on a rant calling many things in the Bible "BS" and never presented ANY position that this was an exception nor presented any non-condemnation of the bible. His presentation condemned it.




It is your opinion that saying "you are a hypocrite if you are a christian and condemn homosexuals" is an "attack" upon ALL of the Bible, all "christians", ALL of christianity. I get it.
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That is not what I said. Try not to make straw man arguments. Do try to address what I actually say.
 
lpast said:
Ohhh man I hope I make it through the night tonight...Ive actually agreed with all your posts in this thread :)
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You've had a very skewed view of how I argue this issue. I'm about as reasonable on it as anyone can be.
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

Excon said:
Except that really isn't the case.
What lead to suicides were unstable minds.
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OK. The apocalypse will be coming soon. I just agreed with you and "liked" your post. :shock:

:mrgreen:
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

Josie said:
Harry is right. It's not a Christian thing - it's an asshole thing.
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Harry Guerrilla said:
The root cause isn't Christians, it's people who act like assholes, that happen to be Christian.
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Question: When a Christian does something good like give to charity or volunteer at a homeless shelter and they base their actions on a particular understanding of the Bible, do you think their beliefs influenced their actions or was it just a "good person thing"?
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
That's just plain ridiculous. I read what YS said last night. It was too aggressive and she was wrong. She admitted it and that is something that rarely happens here, hence is quite a feat. YOU are being unreasonable because you are making personal evaluations based on whether you agree with someone's position or not.
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This what I rejected, this is the cave, this is what I objected to:
Your Star said:
You know what, your probably right, I've been in the wrong in this thread. I just get mad when people who are actively oppressing me for my sexuality get mad at something like this. Like they are equatable, and it clouded my judgement. What the guy said was wrong, I don't even like the guy, and it was okay for the kids to walk out, even though I wouldn't have done such a thing myself. If anyone is at fault here it is the school for not asking for a transcript of what he was going to say.
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To again cave to saying "People should be reasonable to those who hold to irrational views" is just utterly wrong, especially when those views foster the persecution we are discussing, the VERY THING that she has experienced.
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

The bullying did not "cause" the suicides. It may have contributed to how the individual felt, but no one causes anyone to commit suicide. Suicides are far more complicated than that. Some folks get bullied horribly and don't kill themselves, others get bullied minimally and do. There are a lot of factors that go into this. Near where I live, people are being prosecuted for contributing to the suicide of a gay college student. People video taped him in a compromising position with another male and then let this become public. Prosecuting them for harassment? Absolutely... throw the book at them. Blaming them for the suicide? No. Their behavior was wrong and they contributed to the instability of the individual who died, but they did not cause it.
 
I've been reading Dan Savage since before anyone outside of Seattle knew who he was.

My question is, didn't anyone read his stuff before inviting him to speak in front of high school students? It doesn't absolve him of his offensiveness, but at the same time, it's like sticking swords in a bull and expecting him not to get pissed off and charge you. He's famous for being offensive, for hating religion, and for being in-your-face about it. He had no business being there at all. Nothing he's ever written is appropriate for that kind of venue.
 
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Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

ThePlayDrive said:
Question: When a Christian does something good like give to charity or volunteer at a homeless shelter and they base their actions on a particular understanding of the Bible, do you think their beliefs influenced their actions or was it just a "good person thing"?
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I'll take a stab at this. Their interpretation of Christianity, therefore, their individual beliefs influenced their behavior.
 
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