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Bradley Manning Hearing: Judge Refuses To Dismiss 'Aiding The Enemy' Charge

I'm writing as someone who deals with classified information for a living. Criticize Manning for what he allegedly did but there is no need to exaggerate, and claiming that Manning leaked TS is exaggerating.



It's still restricted whether it's confidential, secret (noforn, eyes only, etc), ts sbi, sci, cnwdi, et al. It doesn't matter. Other than most entering the .mil come in with a secret, or at least they did as I recall in the af. :shrug:
 
"The material included two videos – one of a July 2007 Baghdad airstrike and the other of the May 2009 Granai airstrike in Afghanistan – as well as over 250,000 United States diplomatic cables, and around 500,000 army reports about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. It was the largest set of restricted documents ever leaked to the public"

This isn't about being a whistle blower. There are appropriate channels to take issues such as this.

The largest leak in American history is not the appropriate way to air your grievances.

He needs to be made a lesson of so people don't think these actions are acceptable and without consequences.

To those who say this leak did not hurt anyone.....that is absolute ignorance.
 
Last I heard the defense's motion to drop the charges and dismiss the case was based on the fact that the prosecution was refusing to release evidence on "national security" grounds, effectively meaning that they are in violation of Manning's right to a fair trial, as he cannot realistically defend himself.

Also, IIRC, the vast majority of the prosecution's case rests on the claims of the loser, liar hacker with which Manning was corresponding, and these chat logs. So if this is all true, then the prosecution doesn't have much of a case.

I don't know what the prosectuions case rest upon. However, if there are chat logs, then it will be kind of hard to prove those logs are liars.

Unfortunately for the defendent in this case, it does deal with classified information and there are very strict rules about releasing it. Inorder for that information to be released, his defence attorney (as well as the judge, panel and everyone else in the court room at the time) has to have the appropriate security clearance. For the attornies, judge and the panel, there easily a "need to know". The audience in the court room does not, so they will probably be removed before that part of the evidence is brought forth. The defendent is going to be restricted to a defence attorney that has or can get the appropriate clearence level, which means he cannot use just any attorney for his defence.
 
I don't know exactly what information he leaked, but if I was sitting on the panel (military jury) and he released any information that could help either insurgents in Iraq or Afghanistan, then I would indeed find him guilty under this article and since he did during a time of armed conflict, I would vote for death.

I agree. That's like saying a doctor wants to murder his wife using controlled prescription drugs, used a medical license to gain access to drugs to kill her, slipped it in her salad and at the last moment the drugs were discovered. Clearly this guy intended to murder his wife and used his position to access means to do it, so he should go to prison and at a minimum lose his medical license.

What's the point of even having a classification system if we say that we have no idea what the long-term effects of these documents' release will be, and no harm, no foul right? I get that he didn't hand over TS information, but even the fact that his TS-SCI clearance gained him access to all of these documents and he allegedly chose to release them indicates that he broke the law. It shouldn't matter if no one can prove deaths or severe compromise of U.S. personnel and equipment resulted from the release of these documents.
 
DVSentinel said:
However, if there are chat logs, then it will be kind of hard to prove those logs are liars.

LOL have you ever heard of Microsoft Word? You really think a notorious hacker wouldn't have the ability to easily fabricate such a document?

Unfortunately for the defendent in this case, it does deal with classified information and there are very strict rules about releasing it. Inorder for that information to be released, his defence attorney (as well as the judge, panel and everyone else in the court room at the time) has to have the appropriate security clearance. For the attornies, judge and the panel, there easily a "need to know". The audience in the court room does not, so they will probably be removed before that part of the evidence is brought forth. The defendent is going to be restricted to a defence attorney that has or can get the appropriate clearence level, which means he cannot use just any attorney for his defence.

Relevant evidence must be provided to the defense or it is a violation of Manning's consitutional rights.
 
I can't stand the Manning case. It would have been trivial to have a trial and convict manning based on laws regarding classified information. So what the hell was the point of violating the UCMJ and the constitution to illegally stick him in a box for years? There was absolutely no sane reason to deny him his right to a speedy trial.
 
The information released was classified. He had no way of knowing whether or not his sharing of classified information would lead to dire consequences or not. If we hold him as a martyr and praise him for "exposing the evil of Amerika" or whatever such nonsense then we set a dangerous precedent for his actions. Eventually and inevitably, somebody will release documents that cause direct and serious harm to innocent civilians, either of our country or another. And then what? We'll have a legitimate argument from that person's defenders that Manning got off, so why shouldn't they?

If you reveal classified information and thereby break the law in doing so, specifically classified military information, you should be punished in accordance with the penalties for such crime. Period. The intent or result are completely irrelevant.
 
Relevant evidence must be provided to the defense or it is a violation of Manning's consitutional rights.

I agree, and it wil probably be released when the parties involved have the appropriate security clearences. Even then, they will be limited to a cleared area where the classified documents can be viewed with appropriate security.
 
"The material included two videos – one of a July 2007 Baghdad airstrike and the other of the May 2009 Granai airstrike in Afghanistan – as well as over 250,000 United States diplomatic cables, and around 500,000 army reports about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. It was the largest set of restricted documents ever leaked to the public"

This isn't about being a whistle blower. There are appropriate channels to take issues such as this.

The largest leak in American history is not the appropriate way to air your grievances.

He needs to be made a lesson of so people don't think these actions are acceptable and without consequences.

To those who say this leak did not hurt anyone.....that is absolute ignorance.
ok, show us who was hurt, and how
 
I can't stand the Manning case. It would have been trivial to have a trial and convict manning based on laws regarding classified information. So what the hell was the point of violating the UCMJ and the constitution to illegally stick him in a box for years? There was absolutely no sane reason to deny him his right to a speedy trial.

What violations of the UCMJ and by whom? Please provide the title or article number violated. Also, if there were indeed violations, were the individuals who violated the UCMJ disciplined for those violations?

Yes, he has a right to a speedy trial, but he also has the right to a fair trial. Finding a jury pool that actually has not seen material related to the case is going to be very difficult, Officers and NCO's are strongly encouraged to stay abreast of current events. That means the vast majority of those who could potentially be assigned duty on the panel have probably heard and read materials concerning the case. I do not think they would pursue the death penalty for this case, but, if you read the actual article of the UCMJ for the charge mentioned in the title of this thread, you will read that death is a punishment listed for the article he is being charged under. That means extra steps and precautions have to be taken, which will add time to the case. I do not know why he was ordered to pretrial confinement, but someone had to of had justification for it to be allowed.
 
ok, show us who was hurt, and how

Taliban use Wikileaks to Hunt, Murder Named Afghans

...The Times (firewalled again, I’m sorry) asked Wikileaks founder Julian Assange what he thought of it:

• He claimed that many informers in Afghanistan were “acting in a criminal way” by sharing false information with Nato authorities.

• He said the White House knew that informants’ names could be exposed before the release but did nothing to help WikiLeaks to vet the data.

• He insisted that any risk to informants’ lives was outweighed by the overall importance of publishing the information....


Bradley Manning is guilty of treason. He should be tried, and if found guilty, shot.
 
Ah yes, how dare he release documents proving U.S. lawlessness and human rights abuse!

If all Manning had leaked was videos of US soldiers behaving illegally, then I would be more inclined to agree with you. It's one thing to leak information in order to be a whistleblower to expose wrongdoing...but Manning went far beyond that, and leaked plenty of stuff that had nothing to do with "US lawlessness and human rights abuse." Did anyone really need to know American diplomats/ambassadors' views about the leaders of other nations? Or American assessments of the security of nuclear facilities in other nations? Or that the Zimbabwean opposition was secretly urging the US to keep sanctions in place, in spite of his public statements to the contrary?

None of this **** can remotely be called "US lawlessness and human rights abuse." Most classified documents are classified for a reason, that has nothing to do with a sinister cover-up of wrongdoing.
 
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Taliban use Wikileaks to Hunt, Murder Named Afghans


Manning is guilty of treason. He should be tried, and if found guilty, shot.
you choose to ignore the portion of the wikileaks information which reveals the cover-up of murder of civilians by our troops
you would give the government an absolute right to secrecy which then also gives the government an absolute ability to lie to its citizens

let's quit pretending that our nation, our government gives a rat's ass about the afghan people
this opposition to such exposure of government wrongdoing is nothing more than chaff, misdirecting the focus of our people so they won’t notice what is actually within the wikileaks documents:
even a casual reader would realize that we have lost already!

the taliban are already in control of that nation. they are going no where. they are waiting us out. and they are thus winning. the wikileaks information exposes that reality. this is just like vietnam, when we pointed to daily body counts as the scorecard previewing our eventual "success". we are losing; there is no way to win
as soon as we abandon the propped up "democratic" and very corrupt afghan government and return home the tribal afghan people are going to accede to imposed shariah law as imposed by the taliban. the talibs will control the government

wikileaks is to afghanistan what the pentagon papers was to vietnam. the unvarnished truth that this war is a wasted effort - for those who care to look
 
Exposing to the whole world instances like Abu Garib cause more harm than good.

You create rage escalating the IEDs, suicide attacks, and sniper attacks beyond their normal level causing soldiers who had absolutely nothing to do with the incident to be killed.

Things like this need to be handled internally.

There are people in the military whose full time job is to conduct these investigations, and they do. Dumping the largest amount of classified info ever leaked at one time was not the appropriate way to deal with this situation.

From what I gather this information could have been accessed by anyone with a sipernet account, so it's not as if there was this great big coverup.

If he felt he saw something that was a violation he could have reported it.

From what I have seen this was premeditated. He signed NDAs so he can't just play the " I didn't know" card.
 
Goddamn phony tea partiers - what about your precious Constitution and how it forbids cruel and unusual punishment?

And you military men willing to throw one of your own under the bus for a guy who released files that were not even classified?

Biggest bunch of shallow comments of recent memory!:soap
 
Goddamn phony tea partiers - what about your precious Constitution and how it forbids cruel and unusual punishment?

And you military men willing to throw one of your own under the bus for a guy who released files that were not even classified?

Biggest bunch of shallow comments of recent memory!:soap

That is an outright lie.

Aldrich Ames was one of our own (CIA) Robert Hansen was one of our own (FBI) that does not negate the fact that they broke the law in leaking classified information and they suffered the consequences. I see no reason Manning should be treated any differently. He intentionally leaked classified information, knowing it would be released for the world (including our enemies) to see.
 
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I would say it is definitely premature to drop that charge. It will be hard to get a conviction on that charge and he will almost certainly be convicted of enough that he will spend the rest of his life in prison, but the charge is certainly not impossible to get a conviction on, and as such should not be dropped.

I think you may be wrong...the military justice system is a bit different...than civilian courts of law....Manning did a stupid thing in his mind anyway...that was incredibly serious for an active duty soldier...its his intent more than what they actual information turned out to be...he broke many military laws..
 
That is an outright lie.

Aldrich Ames was one of our own (CIA) Robert Hansen was one of our own (FBI) that does not negate the fact that they broke the law in leaking classified information and they suffered the consequences. I see no reason Manning should be treated any differently. He intentionally leaked classified information, knowing it would be released for the world (including our enemies) to see.

Whether it was released or not is entirely irrelevant to me(though not to the legal system). If you give access controlled documents to any one for any reason other than those allowed, you have committed a serious crime. If you do not think the level of access control is appropriate, there are very clear procedures you can follow. What you cannot do is decide for yourself that you can make that decision.

I think you may be wrong...the military justice system is a bit different...than civilian courts of law....Manning did a stupid thing in his mind anyway...that was incredibly serious for an active duty soldier...its his intent more than what they actual information turned out to be...he broke many military laws..

Right, but I am pretty sure that the aiding the enemy is what we called "piling on". When you are going up before a CM, they go through the UCMJ and find anything remotely possible that they can charge you under and add it to the list of charges. It works two ways, one is that it makes what the person did seem more serious, and it gives more chances to get a successful prosecution on some charge. There is a little more to it than that, but that is it in essence. The aiding the enemy charge is one that is going to have about the highest level of difficulty proving, though based on the evidence I know of, it could very well be provable enough to get a conviction. It certainly would not hurt my feelings if they convicted him of it.
 
Right, but I am pretty sure that the aiding the enemy is what we called "piling on". When you are going up before a CM, they go through the UCMJ and find anything remotely possible that they can charge you under and add it to the list of charges. It works two ways, one is that it makes what the person did seem more serious, and it gives more chances to get a successful prosecution on some charge. There is a little more to it than that, but that is it in essence. The aiding the enemy charge is one that is going to have about the highest level of difficulty proving, though based on the evidence I know of, it could very well be provable enough to get a conviction. It certainly would not hurt my feelings if they convicted him of it.

I have to disaree with you here. This is not a case of "piling on", as the primary reason for classifing some documents, some might claim all, is to deny the enemy intelligence. Article 104, clause (2) directly address giving intelligence to the enemy, anytime classified information is improperly released, this charge has strong and direct bearing.

For those who think it will be hard to prove this charge and get a conviction, well, look at the article.

ART. 104. AIDING THE ENEMY
Any person who--
(1) aids, or attempts to aid, the enemy with arms, ammunition, supplies, money, or other things; or
(2) without proper authority, knowingly harbors or protects or gives intelligence to or communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly;
shall suffer death or such other punishment as a court-martial or military commission may direct.

To get a conviction on this charge, the Prosecution only has to prove that his actions gives intelligence to or communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly. Besides the "gives intelligence", if he did indeed release classified documents, it is not going to be hard to prove he communicated, corresponded with the enemy, either directly or indirectly.

His "intent" has no bearing upon guilt or innocence only whether or not his actions meet the definitions of the articles under which he is charged. Proving intent may come into play in some civilian cases, but it has no bearing in military law, except deciding which articles apply in some cases. Example, the difference between Murder and Manslaughter is intent, murder there is an intent to kill someone, manslaughter applies if intent to kill was lacking but death did occur. His lawyers better get a grip on military justice. If they bring up intent, prior to the sentecing phase, they will inadvertantly tell the panel that he is guilty in the military justice system. The fact that they tried to use intent to remove article 104 is admission that he is guilty and shows their unfamiliarality with military justice, since anyone reading the article can clearly see that intent is not a consideration under that article, only facts about what occured. To quote an old saying (and a line from a song) "I heard it said that the road to hell is paved with good intentions".
 
Goddamn phony tea partiers - what about your precious Constitution and how it forbids cruel and unusual punishment?

And you military men willing to throw one of your own under the bus for a guy who released files that were not even classified?

I've worked with the kinds of men whose children were tortured to death because of this a$$hole. I would take very real grim satisfaction in pulling the trigger myself.
 
Fox News Fascists call for Assanges death, including phony liberal Bob Beckel.

What nice Nazis we have working in media or should we say, fronting for "democracy."

:thumbdown

Who Wants Assange Killed? | The Global Conspiracy

I've worked with the kinds of men whose children were tortured to death because of this a$$hole. I would take very real grim satisfaction in pulling the trigger myself.

What BS!

Nobody believes that comic book fantasy you just cooked up!
 
Manning has never helped any enemy to the U.S. (from what I've seen) Have the U.S. government formally declare war and then maybe it would count.

So what have we learned? That spreading a video of a helicopter lighting up an unarmed crawling man = enemy of the US government... (what happened to ALLL the rest of his leaks? Contained situation from the beginning maybe?) Boy, what a world we live in.
 
Manning has never helped any enemy to the U.S. (from what I've seen) Have the U.S. government formally declare war and then maybe it would count.

So what have we learned? That spreading a video of a helicopter lighting up an unarmed crawling man = enemy of the US government... (what happened to ALLL the rest of his leaks? Contained situation from the beginning maybe?) Boy, what a world we live in.

but be sure he will get a fair trial [/s]
while his defense is denied the information which would exculpate him from possible conviction
 
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