Another Unarmed Black Man Killed

ric27 said:

I have a simple rule....

See the mofo. Shoot the mofo and quit thinking about it.

Next

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So if someone is on your porch you are just going to shoot them? Without thinking?

Aunt Spiker said:

What's sad is that these teens and one dad didnt' have the decency to respect anyone in the neighborhood - to the point of the cops needing to be called over the noise of a party going on with underaged drinking involved while everyone else was minding their own quiet business trying to sleep for the night.

What's sad and dangerous is that other people believe they have the right to go onto your property - on your porch - in the middle of the night - after they spent the night causing a ruckus and disturbing the entire neighborhood.

What's sad and dangerous is that apparently some people think that someone going onto your property - on your porch - in the middle of the night after disturbing the peace abd having the cops called on you doesn't raise any sense of alarm - at all - and would best you just hide in the corner of your livingroom from things that go bump in the night.

Sad and dangerous :roll: - The kid should have known better. Likely: he DID know better and decided he didn't give a ****. If they tried - remotely tried - to just be decent law abiding nice people none of it ever would have happened - the cops never would have been called - there wouldn't have been a party going on - and one teen wouldn't have been skulking around on a porch making himself a target of suspicion and ultimately the target of someone's protective firearm.

We live in an armed society - use your brains.

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None of this addresses what I said. The party has nothing to do with what I said, the kid "knowing better" has nothing to do with what I said and I certainly never suggested that people should "hide in the corner when someone's on your property". I said that I value human life even if it's on my property, that I believe in responsible gun ownership and I believe in using weapons as a last resort. I also said, "if they tried to enter my house or pointed a gun at me, I would shoot them" which is the farthest thing from "hiding in a corner." Consequently, your entire response to me was a complete, sad and epic FAIL.

Jesus Christ. It's like I can't even find a poster anymore who's capable of addressing what is written instead of going on tangents and distorting posts. This place is getting more overrun with pathetic nonsense by the minute. Just disagree or agree. You don't have to deflect and distort in order to make a point.

I'll post what I said again in the form of simple, easy to understand questions to see if you can muster up enough honesty to address what I actually said: Do you believe in responsible gun ownership? Do you believe in shooting as a last resort? Do you believe in the value of human life even it's on your property?

Goshin said:

Screw him. The dumbass should not have entered someone else's enclosed porch, late at night. In the dark it is hard to know what someone's intent is, and best to assume to the worst.

Give him a Darwin award and move on.

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This is such a gross post. While I agree with the "it's best to assume the worst" part since that's necessary for safety, the complete disregard for a human life being taken is despicable.

I started out on this board with a pretty liberal, in the literal sense, view on gun rights. I wanted some restrictions for severe mental illness and gun registration. I was definitely for things like Castle Doctrine and all that and at the beginning of the Martin/Zimmerman case, I had no problems with laws like Stand Your Ground. However, my time spent on this board reading so many posts like this has completely changed that mindset.

I based my original position on the assumption that most gun owners thought like me that killing others was a necessary evil rather than a seemingly frivolous, almost amusing thing where we joke about "Darwin awards" and make callous remarks like "screw him". So ****ing sick. It appears that it's not just the criminals who have a low regard for human life.

JohnWOlin said:

So if someone is on your porch you are just going to shoot them? Without thinking?

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I'm thinking...

It's the guy on my porch thats not thinking

ric27 said:

I'm thinking...

It's the guy on my porch thats not thinking

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So if someone is on your porch, you are just going to think and then shoot them?

Look at all these responsible gun owners we got here.

ThePlayDrive said:

This is such a gross post. While I agree with the "it's best to assume the worst" part since that's necessary for safety, the complete disregard for a human life being taken is despicable.

I started out on this board with a pretty liberal, in the literal sense, view on gun rights. I wanted some restrictions for severe mental illness and gun registration. I was definitely for things like Castle Doctrine and all that and at the beginning of the Martin/Zimmerman case, I had no problems with laws like Stand Your Ground. However, my time spent on this board reading so many posts like this has completely changed that mindset.

I based my original position on the assumption that most gun owners thought like me that killing others was a necessary evil rather than a seemingly frivolous, almost amusing thing where we joke about "Darwin awards" and make callous remarks like "screw him". So ****ing sick. It appears that it's not just the criminals who have a low regard for human life.

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You're going to always vote liberal and thereby vote against guns. Don't try to use Goshins' post as some lame excuse for you to justify your true feelings.

American said:

You're going to always vote liberal and thereby vote against guns. Don't try to use Goshins' post as some lame excuse for you to justify your true feelings.

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You obviously know nothing about the diversity of liberal opinions on guns if you think "voting liberal" is synonymous with "voting against guns". Your posts are always a complete fail.

ThePlayDrive said:

So if someone is on your porch, you are just going to think and then shoot them?

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If you are in my home (including an enclosed porch) without my permission, YES there is a very good chance you're going to get shot. You MIGHT get one momentary opportunity to comply with my order to place yourself in a surrendered position (facing away from me, face down on the ground, ankles crossed and fingers interlaced on the top of the head. The instant you do not do so, or you move from that position, will be your last. That's IF I'm in a generous enough mood to even give you that opportunity.

ReverendHellh0und said:

Wait, there is an underage party going on and they are troubled by the neighbor calling the police?

kid young adult breaks and enters, gets shot, sad, but one shouldn't be trespassing like this, how would the neighbor know the kids intentions?

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Well, considering that the shooter had just spoken to the cops six minutes prior to the shooting, the most reasonable assumption would be that the commotion in his enclosed porch was connected with the party next door. It sounds like more of an occasion to go downstairs and tell the kid to get the **** off his property, then to go downstairs and shoot him. It would be different if some OTHER neighbor had called the cops about the party, and the shooter had no idea what was going on...under those circumstances I'd find it a lot more plausible that he thought he might be in danger. But as it stands, he knew goddamn well that there was a party going on next door. A reasonable person might conclude that the kid on his property was causing some teenage mischief, but a reasonable person would not conclude under those circumstances that his life was in danger.

This is why "castle doctrine" laws are ****ing retarded.

Kandahar said:

Well, considering that the shooter had just spoken to the cops six minutes prior to the shooting, the most reasonable assumption would be that the commotion in his enclosed porch was connected with the party next door. It sounds like more of an occasion to go downstairs and tell the kid to get the **** off his property, then to go downstairs and shoot him. It would be different if some OTHER neighbor had called the cops about the party, and the shooter had no idea what was going on...under those circumstances I'd find it a lot more plausible that he thought he might be in danger. But as it stands, he knew goddamn well that there was a party going on next door. A reasonable person might conclude that the kid on his property was causing some teenage mischief, but a reasonable person would not conclude under those circumstances that his life was in danger.

This is why "castle doctrine" laws are ****ing retarded.

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Could be the party goer was coming for retribution for calling the cops. Could be he's coming to rape his wife, could be he's coming to steal his ****. Castle doctrine laws are our right, it's a sad unfortunate tragedy, (one that this thread started and the article abused with the stupid "another unarmed black man killed" idiocy).


Let me ask you a question, if someone breaks into my house, when would it be ok for me to shoot them? before, during or after he tries to rape and kill my wife? Steal my ****? when? and when can I assume he is coming to do his worst and shoot him? on my porch? through my window? when?



Oh and, this "kid" is 20 years old, he's an adult.

ThePlayDrive said:

This is such a gross post. While I agree with the "it's best to assume the worst" part since that's necessary for safety, the complete disregard for a human life being taken is despicable.

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The idiot who is trespassing on another's property is the one who has no regard for his own life. If he's really so stupid as to go around just assuming he can enter someone's private property, then he should be aware of the possible consequences.

Kandahar said:

This is why "castle doctrine" laws are ****ing retarded.

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No. The problem isn't "Castle Doctrine". The problem is a society that refuses to actually punish anyone for breaking the law anymore.

You want to place some blame.... Put it on the parents who went away without properly ensuring there wasn't going to be an illegal party at their house. Put it on the cops who couldn't break the party up. Put it on the idiot who decided to break and enter into another person's property.

Obviously this guys owns some liability since he pulled the trigger, but there were AT LEAST three steps before that where this could have been averted and wasn't.

This kind of stuff is why gun control people feel the way we do. If the killer in this instance hadn't been armed, probably no one would have been hurt, but certainly no one would have been killed. We've created a culture of paranoia where we don't trust our neighbors. America is a pretty safe place. Put down the gun and try to understand the people around you instead of killing them when you get spooked.

ReverendHellh0und said:

Could be the party goer was coming for retribution for calling the cops.

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What kind of "retribution" do you think normally happens to people who call the cops on underage drinking parties? Usually nothing. Perhaps they can expect to get their house egged or toilet papered. Assuming that someone is going to rape you or rob you because you called the cops on an underage drinking party is stupid and paranoid.

Could be he's coming to rape his wife, could be he's coming to steal his ****. Castle doctrine laws are our right, it's a sad unfortunate tragedy, (one that this thread started and the article abused with the stupid "another unarmed black man killed" idiocy).

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Well why the hell else would you assume that someone is "coming to rape your wife" in retribution for ruining their stupid party? If the guy had been white and clean-cut, would that possibility even cross your mind?

Kandahar said:

What kind of "retribution" do you think normally happens to people who call the cops on underage drinking parties? Usually nothing. Perhaps they can expect to get their house egged or toilet papered. Assuming that someone is going to rape you or rob you because you called the cops on an underage drinking party is stupid and paranoid.

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Once someone crosses into your home, you would take that chance? You would put the life and death decision into the mercy of a criminal? I sure wouldn't.

Well why the hell else would you assume that someone is "coming to rape your wife" in retribution for ruining their stupid party? If the guy had been white and clean-cut, would that possibility even cross your mind?

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he could be dressed as a ****ing cop for all I care, if you break into my house, I am not going to assume you are here to wash my car. as far as the "white and clean cut", what the **** does race have to do with it?

Paschendale said:

This kind of stuff is why gun control people feel the way we do. If the killer in this instance hadn't been armed, probably no one would have been hurt, but certainly no one would have been killed. We've created a culture of paranoia where we don't trust our neighbors. America is a pretty safe place. Put down the gun and try to understand the people around you instead of killing them when you get spooked.

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Why the **** SHOULD I trust my neighbors? What have they ever done to earn that trust, Paschendale? Trust, like Respect is EARNED, not given, in my mind. So why would I have either for people so stupid they cannot even follow the simple rules of the condo complex we live in? What is there to make me believe that anyone who comes into my condo unanounced and uninvited is NOT there to do me harm or to steal from me?

Kandahar said:

If the guy had been white and clean-cut, would that possibility even cross your mind?

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Welcome to Racism 101.

Paschendale said:

This kind of stuff is why gun control people feel the way we do. If the killer in this instance hadn't been armed, probably no one would have been hurt, but certainly no one would have been killed. We've created a culture of paranoia where we don't trust our neighbors. America is a pretty safe place. Put down the gun and try to understand the people around you instead of killing them when you get spooked.

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To the bolded:
We rank 3rd in the world, behind Russia and South Africa, in regard to murder rates per 1000 people. That's not really too comforting to know.

So we have someone whose underage and drinking, ignoring attempts for FOURTY FIVE MINUTES of cops trying to get into the location they're at, then proceeds to flee when the owner of the location arrives, and in fleeing decides to trespass onto another person's property and actually entering into an enclosed area on said property, an action his own parents state was likely to elude cops because he had already been ticketed before for underage drinking, ends up getting shot, the cops find no reason to suspect any wrong doing on the part of the home owner.....


naturally this means we need a thorough additional investigation done on the culpability of the home owner. Because as we know, those you use guns are evil and they're extra evil and criminal if the person they have to use the gun against happens to be black.


Is it a ****ty situation? Yes. Know what else would be a ****ty situation? If rather than some kid acting dumb it had been someone thinking they were going to rob the place and was armed. ****ty situations are going to happen, regardless of the law...the difference being do you want to have ****ty situations where those who are not guilty of wrong doing get screwed, or ****ty situations where those who are guilty of wrong doing get screwed?

Look, I'd be lying if I said I didn't drink underage. That's not something worth dying for. Getting arrest by police for it isn't worth dying for. Just going onto someone elses porch isn't worth dying for. Going to a party and ignoring cops isn't worth dying. Trying to elude cops isn't worth dying. But you know what? When you make poor decisions, and especially illegal decisions, YOU choose to risk that consequences will happen to you and when those poor decisions include going onto other peoples property at 2:00 AM then those consequences may include getting shot.

JohnWOlin said:

So you're saying all these 432 black men that killed these other 432 black men are free men or aren't wanted?

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Probably as much as yo'ure saying all 432 of them aren't free men or aren't wanted.

JohnWOlin said:

So if someone is on your porch you are just going to shoot them? Without thinking?

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Absolutely hard to say.

Is it Noon? 6:00 PM in the evening? The middle of the night? Am I home alone? With my wife? With children? Has there been illegal activity going on that night or recently in the neighborhood? What's my mentality going into it...IE am I of completely sound and clear mind, with plenty of sleep and feeling good or am I perhaps not at my quickest reactionary point because I've been kept up for the past 5 hours by loud thumping music? Am I aware of the individual long before I see him? Do I hear sounds? Do those sounds sound suspicious, possibly raising alarms in me? Do I hear noises and go to investigate, only to get shocked as someone comes out from somewhere I'm not expecting someone to come out from? Or do I see the guy just kind of hanging around as I look through the door? Is the person acting threatening, aggressive, or in a way that could even be percieved as such? And on and on.

lizzie said:

The idiot who is trespassing on another's property is the one who has no regard for his own life. If he's really so stupid as to go around just assuming he can enter someone's private property, then he should be aware of the possible consequences.

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Talking about the "idiot" has nothing to do with my point even though it's a common deflection.

ThePlayDrive said:

This is such a gross post. While I agree with the "it's best to assume the worst" part since that's necessary for safety, the complete disregard for a human life being taken is despicable.

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What's discpicable to me is that you have an utter disregard for the basis of human nature that everyone, when it comes down to push and shove and you get them talking honestly, values their loved ones lives more than the lives of an equal amount of others.

Gun up to a strangers head and one up to your wife or mother's head....you have to choose one to live...you tell me honestly which you'd choose.

Situation like that you're stuck with a scenario where you either err on the side of caution for the life of the person invading your property or err on the side of caution for the life of you and your loved ones. I find it despicable that you seek to insult and degrade those that would put their loved ones lives ahead of those who are acting in the wrong.

I'm sorry that people on this board or the castle doctrine have changed your mind about gun laws, but to be honest I don't really care. It's people like you who actually strengthen my normally rather ambivelent attitude towards the need to elect and support significantly strong 2nd amendment individuals because you remind me of the type of unrealistic, ridiculously cowardly, rainbow and lollipops believing, foolish views there are out there that people hold on the issue and why it actually is important. You keep deluding yourself that you have some higher regard for human life, becuase that's all you're doing.

Talking about it until we are blue, or red, in the face isn't going to bring Bo back.

I'm selling my hoodies on ebay.

JohnWOlin said:

So you're saying all these 432 black men that killed these other 432 black men are free men or aren't wanted?

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No, baby...I'm not 'implying' anything. I'm stating directly you don give a **** about them or these two individuals. You 'care' about a cause. Nothin more.