More American workers sue employers for overtime pay

Americans were pushed to their limit in the recession and its aftermath as they worked longer hours, often for the same or less pay, after businesses laid off almost 9 million employees

More American workers sue employers for overtime pay


Theres pros and cons to everything, nothing is perfect. Unions do have their negatives. However, taking the history of labor and its abuses of workers, unions have far more positives than negatives. This is just one example, unions do NOT ALLOW employers to steal from and cheat their employees out of wages earned and make them work untold hours for basically nothing lining their pockets. It happens far more than its known in non union employment where theres nothing to make the employers do the right thing.
No im not a socialist but I am all about workers getting a fair shake.

I think part of the solution to the problem is providing employees with more paid time off. The reality of many offices is that since people can be on call 24/7, customers expect resolutions to problems 24/7. So, instead of doing end runs around wage and hour issues, embrace the fact that someone in the office needs to be available 24/7, or close to it, to resolve problems. Make it well known to new hires what is expected, but offer them more paid downtime to use at their discretion so that they can deal with their personal lives and take a break from the rigors of 24 hr. access.

IMO it's really about respect for personal time rather than a money issue. I think people realize that sometimes they'll have to do extra work, especially in a hard hit economy...it's having to work without getting a break so that they can enjoy what they earn I think that gets most people angry.

The labor market operates under supply and demand like everything else. Import a bunch of slaves, trade with foreign slave nations, and the demand for labor here goes down. This isn't rocket science, it's brain surgery.

Matt Foley said:

The labor market operates under supply and demand like everything else. Import a bunch of slaves, trade with foreign slave nations, and the demand for labor here goes down. This isn't rocket science, it's brain surgery.

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Whats your point ?

lpast said:

Whats your point ?

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The point should be that we have really screwed up immigration and trade policies that make it ridiculously difficult for companies based in the U.S. to compete. So I am not suprised to find employers stretching the law or using the laws to their advnatage to reduce their expenses. It is unfair to the employee for sure some of whom are just happy to have a job. Government stupidity is the cause for creating this atmosphere. We sold our country to foreign countries and for what?

This is a major issue where I have worked for the last decade when it comes to "Storm Work". I work for a major electric utility company here in the Northeast. The significant differences between how Non-Union and Union employees are treated when it comes to overtime is astounding.....

In terms of "regular" Overtime:

There is no such thing as regular OT for non-union employees. It's either considered "incidental" OT (less than an hour at a time) which they are not paid for at all, or they have to get a senior management official to grant them "special" OT, which is paid at the straight (1x hourly rate) rate. Those who are on salary (about 2/3 of the non-union employees) are exempt from ANY Overtime pay at all.

On the other hand, those of us in the Union get a 3 hour minimum every time we're asked to stay with less than 8 hours notice.


When it comes to Storm/Emergency Work it's even crazier:

The Non-Union personnel get forced onto whatever shift their manager wants them on. They're often forced to work 14-16 hour shifts with little to no compensation. They can be sent to other offices, districts, or even regions (Upstate NY, Long Island, New England) without any recourse. They are rarely paid actual OT. They may be paid straight time for hours over 40, but rarely any 1.5x pay.

On the Union side, the moment there's a major storm event our Storm Premium kicks in and we get paid 1.5x hourly (at least) for all hours worked. WE tell the company which employees are reporting to which locations, based on Seniority and canvasing of the affected employees. We get paid "roming" to go to the other offices. We have set limits on how much time we can be forced to work in a shift, and how much time off we must be given between shifts.

I was an "On-Call" employee when we went Union three years ago. As soon as the company saw the additional cost for keeping the eight "system operators" in my office On-Call, they got us off the list as quickly as they could. Amazing, but not surprising.

ChuckBerry said:

I think part of the solution to the problem is providing employees with more paid time off. The reality of many offices is that since people can be on call 24/7, customers expect resolutions to problems 24/7. So, instead of doing end runs around wage and hour issues, embrace the fact that someone in the office needs to be available 24/7, or close to it, to resolve problems. Make it well known to new hires what is expected, but offer them more paid downtime to use at their discretion so that they can deal with their personal lives and take a break from the rigors of 24 hr. access.

C
IMO it's really about respect for personal time rather than a money issue. I think people realize that sometimes they'll have to do extra work, especially in a hard hit economy...it's having to work without getting a break so that they can enjoy what they earn I think that gets most people angry.

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Chuck the bottom line is if you are going to mandate they work overtime...you have to pay them...period...if you want them to have the time off, then you dont have to pay them...its not complicated....people work...they get paid...you make them work overtime you pay them overtime...or hire more workers.

Tigger said:

This is a major issue where I have worked for the last decade when it comes to "Storm Work". I work for a major electric utility company here in the Northeast. The significant differences between how Non-Union and Union employees are treated when it comes to overtime is astounding.....

In terms of "regular" Overtime:

There is no such thing as regular OT for non-union employees. It's either considered "incidental" OT (less than an hour at a time) which they are not paid for at all, or they have to get a senior management official to grant them "special" OT, which is paid at the straight (1x hourly rate) rate. Those who are on salary (about 2/3 of the non-union employees) are exempt from ANY Overtime pay at all.

On the other hand, those of us in the Union get a 3 hour minimum every time we're asked to stay with less than 8 hours notice.


When it comes to Storm/Emergency Work it's even crazier:

The Non-Union personnel get forced onto whatever shift their manager wants them on. They're often forced to work 14-16 hour shifts with little to no compensation. They can be sent to other offices, districts, or even regions (Upstate NY, Long Island, New England) without any recourse. They are rarely paid actual OT. They may be paid straight time for hours over 40, but rarely any 1.5x pay.

On the Union side, the moment there's a major storm event our Storm Premium kicks in and we get paid 1.5x hourly (at least) for all hours worked. WE tell the company which employees are reporting to which locations, based on Seniority and canvasing of the affected employees. We get paid "roming" to go to the other offices. We have set limits on how much time we can be forced to work in a shift, and how much time off we must be given between shifts.

I was an "On-Call" employee when we went Union three years ago. As soon as the company saw the additional cost for keeping the eight "system operators" in my office On-Call, they got us off the list as quickly as they could. Amazing, but not surprising.

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You just gave the perfect explanation why the teaparty hates unions ..they want to assure slave labor is alive and well forever....

Heres a simple truth that no one can dispute with any facts or honesty....non union workers have been stripped of rights and benefits and union workers public and private are the only ones being close to treated fairly....the teaparty HATES THAT...the corporate entities hate that...they want slave labor they have total control over...like legions of chinese that work 18 hrs a day to make ipads so Apple can be the richest corporation..at everyone elses expense.

lpast said:

You just gave the perfect explanation why the teaparty hates unions ..they want to assure slave labor is alive and well forever....

Heres a simple truth that no one can dispute with any facts or honesty....non union workers have been stripped of rights and benefits and union workers public and private are the only ones being close to treated fairly....the teaparty HATES THAT...the corporate entities hate that...they want slave labor they have total control over...like legions of chinese that work 18 hrs a day to make ipads so Apple can be the richest corporation..at everyone elses expense.

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I wondered if someone was going to bring this sort of thing up....

In the 11 years I've worked for this company, I've seen all three angles. I was a contract employee for 5 years before being hired as a non-union employee and then three years ago we signed a Union contract (I'm also my department's Steward and was part of the Negotiating Committee that came up with the contract). I was not exactly the greatest supporter of the Union when the idea was first brought up. My family's experience with Unions has not been very good up until mine, so I was very reluctant to jump on board. However, when I stood back and took a look at the situation without the emotion involved, it became a no-brainer.

Why? Because the company I work for (which is a subsidiary company) is not interested in our employees, or customers, or our product. The only thing they're interested in is little rectangular pieces of green paper with the image of deceased POTUS' on them. Literally. We fired (laid off) 1600 non-union employees last year because the bigwigs had GUARANTEED a certain profit level to their investors and after having all of our rate cases turned down, the only way to make that dividend was to cut 1600 jobs. It ended up being almost 1800 people gone, because they offered a voluntary severance package and got over 500 respondants rather than the 300 they wanted. Oh, and the company that runs their 401K/retirement plan sent out the notices on who was being let go in the middle of a major storm event; so guys were coming home from a 16 hour day running storm crews to find out they were on the list to be canned.

The problem isn't necessarily the money. That's more a symptom than the real disease. It's much more a matter of these companies no longer having any interest in their employees, their customers, or their products. They're driven by nothing more than profit. If they can make an extra $1 Million and destroy 100 lives or make their product less safe, they think nothing of it. When I started with this company a little over a decade ago, it had just been bought by the other company and there was still a level of openness and contact between the management and the employees. In just the last 11 years I've seen that disolve COMPLETELY. There is no contact or understanding anymore. I spend more time on a weekly basis just banging my head on my desk over the latest STUPID management decision than I do getting anything done.

Yes, it would be nice to see a leveling of the playing field for everyone in the company. That's why there have been more departments going Union in the last 4 years in this company than at any time in the last 50 years. Now the only non-union employees left are the managers/supervisors, the planning engineers, and a portion of the system operations group. ALL of our outside/operations employees are now Union. Most of our engineering staff are. Almost all of our clerks and administrative staff are as well. Yet the company cannot figure out why there is zero morale in the company and why everyone is moving over to the Union side.

lpast said:

You just gave the perfect explanation why the teaparty hates unions ..they want to assure slave labor is alive and well forever....

Heres a simple truth that no one can dispute with any facts or honesty....non union workers have been stripped of rights and benefits and union workers public and private are the only ones being close to treated fairly....the teaparty HATES THAT...the corporate entities hate that...they want slave labor they have total control over...like legions of chinese that work 18 hrs a day to make ipads so Apple can be the richest corporation..at everyone elses expense.

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...and the only way they can get slave labor is through immigration and free trade.

jambalaya said:

The point should be that we have really screwed up immigration and trade policies that make it ridiculously difficult for companies based in the U.S. to compete. So I am not suprised to find employers stretching the law or using the laws to their advnatage to reduce their expenses. It is unfair to the employee for sure some of whom are just happy to have a job. Government stupidity is the cause for creating this atmosphere. We sold our country to foreign countries and for what?

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It's perfectly fair to the employee because they voted for the globalists who put them in this spot in the first place.

jambalaya said:

The point should be that we have really screwed up immigration and trade policies that make it ridiculously difficult for companies based in the U.S. to compete. So I am not suprised to find employers stretching the law or using the laws to their advnatage to reduce their expenses. It is unfair to the employee for sure some of whom are just happy to have a job. Government stupidity is the cause for creating this atmosphere. We sold our country to foreign countries and for what?

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This presumes that employers would gladly hand out more money and benefits if there were no cheap foreign competition. I'm sorry, but in my life's observations, such largesse by employers would indeed be rare without outside coercion... i.e.: government mandate or union representation. Most business, if given a break in costs, would simply pocket the difference.