Detroit High School Protest: Students Suspended After Demanding 'An Education' (edite

[MarineTpartier]

I wish this story would get more attention. This is an awesome display of motivated youths demanding they be educated. Those youths also happen to come from the black inner city of Detroit. Where's Al Shapton on this one? These kids need exposure. They need a voice larger than a back page story. This is the kind of stuff activists should get behind. Highlighting schools that fail their students. Highlighting absent fathers. These are the roots of the black community's struggles. If they tackle this stuff, I believe they would find a much more accepting and willing public arena to speak in when they set forth claims of racism and inequality. People like Al Sharpton, if they really want to help their race, should work on improving THEIR race and not everyone else's. You can't change the way people perceive you. But you can improve your perception of yourself. Bravo to these kids for taking an interest in their education when no one else would!
Detroit High School Protest: Students Suspended After Demanding 'An Education'

 

[Kreton]

Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

having received a large part of my education in detroit public schools i can say these kids are right. Schools and teachers there dont give a damn.

 

[StillBallin75]

Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

I wish this story would get more attention. This is an awesome display of motivated youths demanding they be educated. Those youths also happen to come from the black inner city of Detroit. Where's Al Shapton on this one? These kids need exposure. They need a voice larger than a back page story. This is the kind of stuff activists should get behind. Highlighting schools that fail their students. Highlighting absent fathers. These are the roots of the black community's struggles. If they tackle this stuff, I believe they would find a much more accepting and willing public arena to speak in when they set forth claims of racism and inequality. People like Al Sharpton, if they really want to help their race, should work on improving THEIR race and not everyone else's. You can't change the way people perceive you. But you can improve your perception of yourself. Bravo to these kids for taking an interest in their education when no one else would!
Detroit High School Protest: Students Suspended After Demanding 'An Education'

I think it is getting proper attention. This story was all over my facebook feed (for those who actually use facebook). It's good that someone is standing up.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

Hmm - since it's a special school that they had to apply to gain entry - and considering that those entry-standards have lessened (to where new students don't even have to apply) - I dont' blame them.

Is this an example of what might happen if everyone goes to private schools in the belief that they're superior by default?

Overall - good for them and the parents who are showing concern - can't do anything without parental involvement, concern and support.

 

[MarineTpartier]

Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

Public schools are so hit or miss. My son went to a DOD school prior to the one he's in now and its night and day difference. DOD schools are so far advanced compared to public schools. I don't know why. The children come from all walks of life so its not a historical trend of good education. If someone could tell me why this is, please do. I'm going to guess that its the teachers being held to a higher standard. You can say its money all you want but its been proven time and again that money never fixes bad education. All the new schools, computers, etc in the world won't fix a bad teacher or principal.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

Public schools are so hit or miss. My son went to a DOD school prior to the one he's in now and its night and day difference. DOD schools are so far advanced compared to public schools. I don't know why. The children come from all walks of life so its not a historical trend of good education. If someone could tell me why this is, please do. I'm going to guess that its the teachers being held to a higher standard. You can say its money all you want but its been proven time and again that money never fixes bad education. All the new schools, computers, etc in the world won't fix a bad teacher or principal.

Parents are crucial at improvements and changes - when you ahve a failing school you have parents who aren't involved, instrument and who don't remotely give a **** in large numbers.

It's not because the government runs education - it's because the parents are absent.

 

[MarineTpartier]

Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

Hmm - since it's a special school that they had to apply to gain entry - and considering that those entry-standards have lessened (to where new students don't even have to apply) - I dont' blame them.

Is this an example of what might happen if everyone goes to private schools in the belief that they're superior by default?

Overall - good for them and the parents who are showing concern - can't do anything without parental involvement, concern and support.

Agreed. Good to see the parents involved as well.

 

[Mr. Invisible]

Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

I wish this story would get more attention. This is an awesome display of motivated youths demanding they be educated. Those youths also happen to come from the black inner city of Detroit. Where's Al Shapton on this one? These kids need exposure. They need a voice larger than a back page story. This is the kind of stuff activists should get behind. Highlighting schools that fail their students. Highlighting absent fathers. These are the roots of the black community's struggles. If they tackle this stuff, I believe they would find a much more accepting and willing public arena to speak in when they set forth claims of racism and inequality. People like Al Sharpton, if they really want to help their race, should work on improving THEIR race and not everyone else's. You can't change the way people perceive you. But you can improve your perception of yourself. Bravo to these kids for taking an interest in their education when no one else would!

Detroit High School Protest: Students Suspended After Demanding 'An Education'

While I agree with you on this, in general I don't really like the notion of people pretending to know that they know the problems of the black community- or any community for that matter. While there may be obvious problems, there are problems that no one talks about such as the historical, economic, and psychological affects of slavery. As well as the co-optation of the Civil Rights Movement. Please note that I am not saying that black people should just blame their problems on these things and not try to improve. I'm just saying that there are seriously deep problems in the black community that are much deeper than just chronic fatherlessness. We need to understand- truly understand- how black people got here in order for us to begin thinking of ways to solve our problems.

On another note, I completely and totally agree that students should demand an education. High school students on up need to be flooding their Congressional representatives with letters demanding a quality education that prepares us for the future and to be intelligent, competitive and think outside the box in a globalized economy. If we can consistently find money for wars, subsidies to massive corporations, and bailouts for banks, than I think that we can find the money to invest in the intellectual infrastructure of our nation. Believe it or not, these kids are going to be leading the country one day and we should do everything in our power to make sure that we have the best and the brightest minds available to make sure that this nation succeeds.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

I wish this story would get more attention. This is an awesome display of motivated youths demanding they be educated. Those youths also happen to come from the black inner city of Detroit. Where's Al Shapton on this one? These kids need exposure. They need a voice larger than a back page story. This is the kind of stuff activists should get behind. Highlighting schools that fail their students. Highlighting absent fathers. These are the roots of the black community's struggles. If they tackle this stuff, I believe they would find a much more accepting and willing public arena to speak in when they set forth claims of racism and inequality. People like Al Sharpton, if they really want to help their race, should work on improving THEIR race and not everyone else's. You can't change the way people perceive you. But you can improve your perception of yourself. Bravo to these kids for taking an interest in their education when no one else would!
Detroit High School Protest: Students Suspended After Demanding 'An Education'

Wow. That's just so awesome. It gives me chills. And you're right, where is their exposure? For something that's, uh, constructive??

 

[MarineTpartier]

Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

Parents are crucial at improvements and changes - when you ahve a failing school you have parents who aren't involved, instrument and who don't remotely give a **** in large numbers.

It's not because the government runs education - it's because the parents are absent.

I agree to an extent. But when you spend more time at school than at home, as all kids do, the quality of school can have a huge impact. A good after school program with a couple of teachers who give a crap could go a long way in these areas where the parents historically don't give a crap.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

I agree to an extent. But when you spend more time at school than at home, as all kids do, the quality of school can have a huge impact. A good after school program with a couple of teachers who give a crap could go a long way in these areas where the parents historically don't give a crap.

So could getting rid of the so-called students whose only "job" at school is one of intimidation.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

I agree to an extent. But when you spend more time at school than at home, as all kids do, the quality of school can have a huge impact. A good after school program with a couple of teachers who give a crap could go a long way in these areas where the parents historically don't give a crap.

If the kids resort to trouble after school instead - I see your point.

'Failing' in school - or being failed by the school (on a personal level) - doesn't mean the kids are hoodlums all of a sudden.

 

[lizzie]

Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

If someone could tell me why this is, please do. I'm going to guess that its the teachers being held to a higher standard. You can say its money all you want but its been proven time and again that money never fixes bad education. All the new schools, computers, etc in the world won't fix a bad teacher or principal.

I'm going to guess it's parental interest and involvement. All the good teachers and principals in the world won't fix a broken home environment.

 

[MarineTpartier]

Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

While I agree with you on this, in general I don't really like the notion of people pretending to know that they know the problems of the black community- or any community for that matter. While there may be obvious problems, there are problems that no one talks about such as the historical, economic, and psychological affects of slavery. As well as the co-optation of the Civil Rights Movement. Please note that I am not saying that black people should just blame their problems on these things and not try to improve. I'm just saying that there are seriously deep problems in the black community that are much deeper than just chronic fatherlessness. We need to understand- truly understand- how black people got here in order for us to begin thinking of ways to solve our problems.

On another note, I completely and totally agree that students should demand an education. High school students on up need to be flooding their Congressional representatives with letters demanding a quality education that prepares us for the future and to be intelligent, competitive and think outside the box in a globalized economy. If we can consistently find money for wars, subsidies to massive corporations, and bailouts for banks, than I think that we can find the money to invest in the intellectual infrastructure of our nation. Believe it or not, these kids are going to be leading the country one day and we should do everything in our power to make sure that we have the best and the brightest minds available to make sure that this nation succeeds.

Sorry bud, but I'm not buying the slavery thing anymore. It can only go so far. How long does it take to recover from something? Jewish people have, by far, endured the most cataclysmic events in the history of any race. Yet, they prosper.

 

[StillBallin75]

Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

Public schools are so hit or miss. My son went to a DOD school prior to the one he's in now and its night and day difference. DOD schools are so far advanced compared to public schools. I don't know why. The children come from all walks of life so its not a historical trend of good education. If someone could tell me why this is, please do. I'm going to guess that its the teachers being held to a higher standard. You can say its money all you want but its been proven time and again that money never fixes bad education. All the new schools, computers, etc in the world won't fix a bad teacher or principal.

I'd say the problem is primarily geographical and economic in nature. I'm making a bit of a sweeping generalization here, but inner city schools are usually crap because they are poorly funded (which is in turn due to the fact that the neighborhoods are poor.) As a result, they don't have the best equipment and facilities, nor are they really able to hold on to the best teachers.

Also, yes, committed parents make a huge difference, but many parents in the lower and working classes are either incapable of, or unable to, give their children sufficient support when it comes to school.

 

[MarineTpartier]

Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

If the kids resort to trouble after school instead - I see your point.

'Failing' in school - or being failed by the school (on a personal level) - doesn't mean the kids are hoodlums all of a sudden.

By after school programs I mean a program where kids get the help they would normally get from their parents. I'm sure this is being attempted somewhere so I'm not going to act like I'm some kind of revolutionary. I know kids don't automatically turn into hoodlums. That wasn't my point about it. I was just saying the after school program could give them help with homework that they normally don't get.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

By after school programs I mean a program where kids get the help they would normally get from their parents. I'm sure this is being attempted somewhere so I'm not going to act like I'm some kind of revolutionary. I know kids don't automatically turn into hoodlums. That wasn't my point about it. I was just saying the after school program could give them help with homework that they normally don't get.

True.

In the OP I think it's interesting that they cite a lack of homework (etc) as a reason for the school slipping.

 

[MarineTpartier]

Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

I'd say the problem is primarily geographical and economic in nature. I'm making a bit of a sweeping generalization here, but inner city schools are usually crap because they are poorly funded (which is in turn due to the fact that the neighborhoods are poor.) As a result, they don't have the best equipment and facilities, nor are they really able to hold on to the best teachers.

Also, yes, committed parents make a huge difference, but many parents in the lower and working classes are either incapable of, or unable to, give their children sufficient support when it comes to school.

I see your point with the parent thing. However, I think a parent that gives a crap can overcome a lack of time. Having a child isn't always easy and we have a responsibility to give them everything we have. It sucks sometimes when you'd rather just sit down and relax after a long day but its part of the deal. I know that I will reach a point where my child is learning stuff I don't remember well enough to help him at home. But at least pointing him in the right direction to get help, encouraging him to make good grades, and giving him consequences for not making them goes a lot further than leaving him to fend for himself.

 

[StillBallin75]

Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

Sorry bud, but I'm not buying the slavery thing anymore. It can only go so far. How long does it take to recover from something? Jewish people have, by far, endured the most cataclysmic events in the history of any race. Yet, they prosper.

The residual effects of slavery and Jim Crow racism are definitely still with us today. It has only been within the past generation that a significant proportion of black households have been able to accumulate a degree of wealth and transition into the middle and upper classes.

As for the Jews, it's simply not a good comparison for a variety of historical reasons, not least of which is the fact that the world Jewry as a whole has been able to accumulate wealth and resources for centuries.

 

[MarineTpartier]

Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

True.

In the OP I think it's interesting that they cite a lack of homework (etc) as a reason for the school slipping.

Agreed. I thought that was interesting as well. The lack of teachers is what really shocked me. I couldn't imagine my kid showing up to school and having no teacher.

 

[Enola]

Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

I get what Marine is saying. My ancestors were indentured servants (been doing a bit more genealogy) from ireland and that meant slavery forever in some cases. They NEVER could pay off their debt. And look how the irish were treated when they came through ellis island.
Australians were from debtors prison...sent off to an island in horrible conditions.
Everyone pulled their bootstraps up and continued on without blaming someone else. They survived. And the Jews? I don't think anything can compare to what they have suffered. No particular group of people can lay claim to "having it the worst".

Meanwhile..bravo to those students!!

 

[MarineTpartier]

Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

The residual effects of slavery and Jim Crow racism are definitely still with us today. It has only been within the past generation that a significant proportion of black households have been able to accumulate a degree of wealth and transition into the middle and upper classes.

As for the Jews, it's simply not a good comparison for a variety of historical reasons, not least of which is the fact that the world Jewry as a whole has been able to accumulate wealth and resources for centuries.

Racism, yes, in some portions of the country is still a problem. Slavery? No way. Slavery ended 150 years ago. Thats plenty of time to recover. Many a Irishman and Italian migrated to this country with little to no education, no knowledge of the English language (Italians), and no prospects. Those races are doing just fine. I'm not claiming to know why the black race hasn't prospered, but I know it can't be blamed on slavery anymore. That's ridiculous. As for the Jewish comparison, don't just think holocaust. Look back further at what that people has been through. Each time adversity came to them, they overcame it. As they still do today.

 

[StillBallin75]

Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

I get what Marine is saying. My ancestors were indentured servants (been doing a bit more genealogy) from ireland and that meant slavery forever in some cases. They NEVER could pay off their debt. And look how the irish were treated when they came through ellis island.
Australians were from debtors prison...sent off to an island in horrible conditions.
Everyone pulled their bootstraps up and continued on without blaming someone else. They survived. And the Jews? I don't think anything can compare to what they have suffered. No particular group of people can lay claim to "having it the worst".

Meanwhile..bravo to those students!!

All I'm saying is that comparing the plight and history of African-Americans to other minorities in THIS country isn't particularly useful if we're going to go the "well everyone else pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, why can't black people?" route. There are a host of historical, social, and economic reasons why the plight of blacks has been different, and IMHO most of those factors play a much larger role in holding black people back than the so-called victim mentality. Just my $0.02.

 

[MarineTpartier]

Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

All I'm saying is that comparing the plight and history of African-Americans to other minorities in THIS country isn't particularly useful if we're going to go the "well everyone else pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, why can't black people?" route. There are a host of historical, social, and economic reasons why the plight of blacks has been different, and IMHO most of those factors play a much larger role in holding black people back than the so-called victim mentality. Just my $0.02.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not accusing anyone of the victim mentality. Im just debating the point with you is all. Like I said, I don't know the reason the black race hasn't improved as fast as other races. Couldn't tell you. But I don't believe we can say slavery is the cause, or even one of the causes, anymore.

 

[StillBallin75]

Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

Racism, yes, in some portions of the country is still a problem. Slavery? No way. Slavery ended 150 years ago. Thats plenty of time to recover. Many a Irishman and Italian migrated to this country with little to no education, no knowledge of the English language (Italians), and no prospects. Those races are doing just fine. I'm not claiming to know why the black race hasn't prospered, but I know it can't be blamed on slavery anymore. That's ridiculous. As for the Jewish comparison, don't just think holocaust. Look back further at what that people has been through. Each time adversity came to them, they overcame it. As they still do today.

I suppose it's not accurate to say "it's just slavery." It's the entire legacy of racism and slavery in this country, up to and including the Jim Crow Era, which only ended a generation ago. The European immigrant comparison isn't particularly apt because despite their situation, they didn't suffer institutionalized, overt discrimination over several generations the way blacks have. Historically, there have been economic opportunities there for European immigrants that simply haven't been there for blacks. For instance, it wasn't even until World War II that Officer Candidate School really opened up its ranks to African-Americans.