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New GM pickup will have natural gas option

How much would a natural gas compressor unit be for your home? Couldn't you use your own?

Edit: Yep, there is an Italian company that makes one that uses less power than "a kitchen appliance".
 
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CNG is a great idea if you can afford one of those home refueling units, but they cost $4000, not including installation, and it takes all night to refuel. CNG isn't ready for prime time when it comes to non-fleet uses. Gasoline is still king.
 
The fact is we have natural gas and could become very close to energy independent if we switched over to it on a large scale. From what I gather this stuff burns cleaner too so it's good all the way around. I hate to say this I really do because 99% of the time I am against the Feds getting involved in anything and usually say let the market decide what we do but this may be an exception. As Rocket said theres a bit of a catch 22 here, no filling stations nobody buys the cars, no cars nobody builds the filling stations so in this one instance I would be for the Feds giving no interest loans and tax breaks to get the ball rolling and maybe even tax breaks to buy these cars. This is a national security issue in alot of ways and that is one of the main jobs the Fed gov is supposed to do.
 
The fact is we have natural gas and could become very close to energy independent if we switched over to it on a large scale. From what I gather this stuff burns cleaner too so it's good all the way around. I hate to say this I really do because 99% of the time I am against the Feds getting involved in anything and usually say let the market decide what we do but this may be an exception. As Rocket said theres a bit of a catch 22 here, no filling stations nobody buys the cars, no cars nobody builds the filling stations so in this one instance I would be for the Feds giving no interest loans and tax breaks to get the ball rolling and maybe even tax breaks to buy these cars. This is a national security issue in alot of ways and that is one of the main jobs the Fed gov is supposed to do.
I think if cities would adopt perks based policy such as giving a preferable business tax rate to stations that provide x amount of CNG in fast-fill capacity within the year and possibly having a "waiver" of certain taxes for drivers it would be a cheap way to garner interest.
 
This is an alternative for medium and large businesses who have access to the required infrastructure. A great way to increase productivity, but as stated, government subsidy is required to gain fast traction.
 
I truly apreciate allthe effort being put into new techknowledgy, but from a practical perspective, where am I going to fuel up on natural gas?
At home...
 
This is an alternative for medium and large businesses who have access to the required infrastructure. A great way to increase productivity, but as stated, government subsidy is required to gain fast traction.
Eh, I don't know if subsidy is the only way, I think you try tax breaks and other incentives first. If that fails then you do a viability study and figure out if a tax subsidy shows a return and if so I have no problems with local and state governments doing it, no federal though.
 
Eh, I don't know if subsidy is the only way, I think you try tax breaks and other incentives first. If that fails then you do a viability study and figure out if a tax subsidy shows a return and if so I have no problems with local and state governments doing it, no federal though.

Maybe i should clarify; subsidize the infrastructure to be built. Taxes can be phased in as the requisite for subsidizing the industry begins to dissipate, as a way of making it long term revenue neutral. There is what, 400 NG retailers nation wide? Earlier intervention via federal, state, or local governments (take your pick, it really is trivial) coulda/woulda increased this number rather dramatically.

Although someone made an obvious observation; 64 million homes are heated with natural gas, meaning they have direct access to local energy providers.
 
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Maybe i should clarify; subsidize the infrastructure to be built. Taxes can be phased in as the requisite for subsidizing the industry begins to dissipate, as a way of making it long term revenue neutral. There is what, 400 NG retailers nation wide? Earlier intervention via federal, state, or local governments (take your pick, it really is trivial) coulda/woulda increased this number rather dramatically.

Although someone made an obvious observation; 64 million homes are heated with natural gas, meaning they have direct access to local energy providers.
The reason I don't believe the federal should lift a finger is that they already do too much that isn't covered in their legal authority. For states and locals they have every right to do this and it's probably not a bad investment. The problem is that if people don't buy the vehicles it's wasted tax dollars so this is why I think tax incentives and other perks should be tried before anything, then take the results from there. For instance if I were the owner of a filling station and my taxes would be signifigantly lower to carry one or two full duty CNG tanks I would be interested, if it took, say 10k per tank to install and minimal maintenance if I got a tax break for 10k or more I would jump on it, sure I may break even or lose a little in year one, but after costs are made up I make a net 10k in tax savings every year and it adds up. As well if it were per tank, or if my demand went up it would make sense to add more capacity.
 
The reason I don't believe the federal should lift a finger is that they already do too much that isn't covered in their legal authority. For states and locals they have every right to do this and it's probably not a bad investment. The problem is that if people don't buy the vehicles it's wasted tax dollars so this is why I think tax incentives and other perks should be tried before anything, then take the results from there. For instance if I were the owner of a filling station and my taxes would be signifigantly lower to carry one or two full duty CNG tanks I would be interested, if it took, say 10k per tank to install and minimal maintenance if I got a tax break for 10k or more I would jump on it, sure I may break even or lose a little in year one, but after costs are made up I make a net 10k in tax savings every year and it adds up. As well if it were per tank, or if my demand went up it would make sense to add more capacity.

You are essentially describing a subsidy. As stated, it makes little difference to me which aspect of government "incentivizes" the private sector into providing a NG infrastructure. The only reason i would lean toward the federal side is due to uniformity, i.e. there is no guarantee state A or B will jump at the chance. The existence of a national infrastructure is key in quickly developing a market for NG vehicles.

Some tax subsidization on the consumer/demand side would be very helpful as well.
 
You are essentially describing a subsidy. As stated, it makes little difference to me which aspect of government "incentivizes" the private sector into providing a NG infrastructure. The only reason i would lean toward the federal side is due to uniformity, i.e. there is no guarantee state A or B will jump at the chance. The existence of a national infrastructure is key in quickly developing a market for NG vehicles.

Some tax subsidization on the consumer/demand side would be very helpful as well.

Well if you drive from Idaho to Texas in a NG vehicle......

I'd hope one could get NG in both states as well as the ones in between.
 
You are essentially describing a subsidy. As stated, it makes little difference to me which aspect of government "incentivizes" the private sector into providing a NG infrastructure. The only reason i would lean toward the federal side is due to uniformity, i.e. there is no guarantee state A or B will jump at the chance. The existence of a national infrastructure is key in quickly developing a market for NG vehicles.

Some tax subsidization on the consumer/demand side would be very helpful as well.
Eh. I don't consider incentives to be subsidies for two important reasons: 1) It's not taking out of general funds to directly pay for something. and 2) Even though taxes have to be adjusted from one sector they can be made up in other taxable revenues such as vehicle purchases, it more directly benefits the locality to have more and smaller taxes by a larger body than individual businesses paying large lump sums so basically it would be shifting the tax demand to smaller and more reasonable bites from a larger pool. I don't subscribe to uniformity, while I understand the argument that having supply readily available nationwide is good, we can point to other uniform and centralized national laws that don't fit everyone. I am not ready to further empower the national government in any way.
 
Also in competition will be more fuel efficient hybrid pickups:

Ford and Toyota Partnering Up to Produce Hybrid Trucks

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"If there was any doubt that new fuel regulations would make an immediate and widespread impact on the automotive industry, it evaporated this morning. Today, Ford and Toyota announced an agreement to jointly develop — as equal partners — a new hybrid drivetrain specifically for light trucks and SUVs. This new technology would go on sale by the end of the decade.

The types of rear-wheel-drive vehicles this will be applied to include some of the most popular vehicles in the country, big pickups like Ford’s F-150 and the Toyota Tundra, along with large body-on-frame SUVs like the Toyota Sequoia and Ford Expedition. Ford and Toyota currently have just a handful of these types of vehicles in their portfolios, but the F-150 accounts for such a huge portion of sales that it alone would warrant this type of development."

Ford and Toyota Partnering Up to Produce Hybrid Trucks - PickupTrucks.com News
 
Also in competition will be more fuel efficient hybrid pickups:

Ford and Toyota Partnering Up to Produce Hybrid Trucks

6a00d83451b3c669e2015434baa9d5970c-800wi



"If there was any doubt that new fuel regulations would make an immediate and widespread impact on the automotive industry, it evaporated this morning. Today, Ford and Toyota announced an agreement to jointly develop — as equal partners — a new hybrid drivetrain specifically for light trucks and SUVs. This new technology would go on sale by the end of the decade.

The types of rear-wheel-drive vehicles this will be applied to include some of the most popular vehicles in the country, big pickups like Ford’s F-150 and the Toyota Tundra, along with large body-on-frame SUVs like the Toyota Sequoia and Ford Expedition. Ford and Toyota currently have just a handful of these types of vehicles in their portfolios, but the F-150 accounts for such a huge portion of sales that it alone would warrant this type of development."

Ford and Toyota Partnering Up to Produce Hybrid Trucks - PickupTrucks.com News

Correct me if I'm wrong, I very well may be but don't hybrid vehicles only really work in stop and go traffic? AsI understand it once you are cruising down the road at 60 MPH or better they are just regular gasoline engine vehicles. This is what most pickup trucks do, they are not used for commuting in the city as a rule.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, I very well may be but don't hybrid vehicles only really work in stop and go traffic? AsI understand it once you are cruising down the road at 60 MPH or better they are just regular gasoline engine vehicles. This is what most pickup trucks do, they are not used for commuting in the city as a rule.

I think you're right. In city driving you do a lot of starting to move again. Hybrids use the gas engine to get going, then keep the momentum going with the stored electricity. Which is why I laugh at people driving hybrids in city traffic.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, I very well may be but don't hybrid vehicles only really work in stop and go traffic? AsI understand it once you are cruising down the road at 60 MPH or better they are just regular gasoline engine vehicles. This is what most pickup trucks do, they are not used for commuting in the city as a rule.

There's two kinds of hybrids: parallel (Prius, etc) and series (Volt).

Parallels have a regular drivetrain with an electeic motor grafted in. They perfkrm well in stop and go but lose their advantage on the freeway.

Series types have smaller ICEs, running at a steady state to provide pkwer to the electric drivetrain. Don't know how the Volts does, bht in theory they shouldn't have the same loss of advantage at freeway speeds.
 
As I thought hybrids are just regular gasoline engines on the open road except worse because you have the extra weight of a huge battery bank.


"That's because, as the term implies, hybrid cars have two different powerplants under the hood: a powerful electric motor and a conventional gasoline engine.

The electric motor, powered by a stack of rechargeable batteries, is the primary workhorse for moving the car during slow-speed driving — such as through a residential neighborhood or in stop-and-go urban traffic.

During coasting and slow-down phases when a driver lightly taps on the brakes, the car's wheels are automatically engaged to an electrical generator. The generator creates an extra "load" to assist the brakes in slowing the car down, but more importantly, it converts the car's mechanical energy back into electricity to recharge the car's batteries.

At higher speeds, such as steady highway cruising, computers automatically switch on the gas-burning engine, which then takes over as the primary driving force of the car. Typically, the small engine is designed with variable valve timing intelligence, or VVT-i, and other advances to ensure that the fuel is burned most efficiently and completely"


How Do Hybrid Cars Work? - ABC News
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, I very well may be but don't hybrid vehicles only really work in stop and go traffic? AsI understand it once you are cruising down the road at 60 MPH or better they are just regular gasoline engine vehicles. This is what most pickup trucks do, they are not used for commuting in the city as a rule.

Yes, you're right. Hybrids are mostly an advantage if you live in the city, and travel short distances in your routine habits. For someone like me, who drives 90 miles round-trip for work, it would be a waste of money overall.
 
Yes, you're right. Hybrids are mostly an advantage if you live in the city, and travel short distances in your routine habits. For someone like me, who drives 90 miles round-trip for work, it would be a waste of money overall.


Huh. Guess I was wrong. You learn something new everyday.
 
As I sit here this moment NPR just had a story on natural gas saying we could be virtually energy independent in 10 years. We need to make this happen!

Ok, looks good. naturaly The next question is given all the other products we make from patrolium, how many of those same products can be made from natural gas?
 
Ok, looks good. naturaly The next question is given all the other products we make from patrolium, how many of those same products can be made from natural gas?

We will always need oil but if we can move most of our transportation to ng that frees oil up for other things. The NPR report I referred to was saying between our natural gas and Canada's shale oil we could tell the Mideast goodbye and good luck, wouldn't THAT feel good.
 
Ok, looks good. naturaly The next question is given all the other products we make from patrolium, how many of those same products can be made from natural gas?

Probably not many, but oil dependence for gasoline is our single biggest use of petroleum, so it might make a considerable impact on our foreign dependence, which is something I can get fully behind.
 
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