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Austerity leads to higher death rates.

I actually didn't offer a solution, but if I were the ECB should treat its member states like they do with states in the US and continue to supply Greece with the Wuros to pay that debt. OT Greece should leave and start their own currency.
 
Greece is a perfect example of why Governments should get out of the "take care of you" business, and focus ont he "Make sure society if free, and legally equal". People fail, life sucks, trying to pay for it all with borrowed money and oppressive taxes never works.

EVER.
 
Living within your means is not austerity, it is responsibility. Austerity is the path the irresponsible must travel to get there.
 
I actually didn't offer a solution, but if I were the ECB should treat its member states like they do with states in the US and continue to supply Greece with the Wuros to pay that debt. OT Greece should leave and start their own currency.

You realize the only thing keeping Greece afloat right now is central bank funding; if they werent getting that you would see real austerity, the kind granted by not having any money. As opposed to right now where they have some.
 
It amounts to little more than enslavement to the state.

It is worth noting that the type of individual who would make pompous pontifications such as this is most likely as removed as far as possible from the individuals who need help and stand the most to lose from austerity programs. It is like the French nobility covering their powdered noses with perfumed handkerchiefs so they will not have to smell the body odor of the riffraff while on the streets of Paris.
 
It is worth noting that the type of individual who would make pompous pontifications such as this is most likely as removed as far as possible from the individuals who need help and stand the most to lose from austerity programs. It is like the French nobility covering their powdered noses with perfumed handkerchiefs so they will not have to smell the body odor of the riffraff while on the streets of Paris.

Being a responsible citizen is your duty, buddy. Now go get jiggy with it, and stop living off your brother.
 
You realize the only thing keeping Greece afloat right now is central bank funding; if they werent getting that you would see real austerity, the kind granted by not having any money. As opposed to right now where they have some.

Right now Greece is cutting their spending, hence why people are on the streets protesting there, they are definitely using Austerity. The money they are receiving is simply to cover budget shortfalls.
 
Living within your means is not austerity, it is responsibility. Austerity is the path the irresponsible must travel to get there.

And how were the Greeks irresponsible? Are they to blame for the worldwide economic collapse, in which they now suffer from?
 
And how were the Greeks irresponsible? Are they to blame for the worldwide economic collapse, in which they now suffer from?
You are right, they are victims. Everyone else is to blame for the fact that they have spent themselves into oblivion. It is not their fault that no one wants to lend them any more money. Its not the Greek peoples fault that they elected to office people who promised them more than they could deliver. I guess it must be my fault.
 
Being a responsible citizen is your duty, buddy. Now go get jiggy with it, and stop living off your brother.

Please get off your elitist high horse and stop preaching to me. For your information ----- as if it matters ----- I have been self sufficient all my life and have never lived off anyone since I moved out of my folks house when I got out of college. And that was over forty years ago. So I do NOT need your pompous pontifications about what a good citizen is and what I am responsible for.

Having a society where the needy are taken care of and the weak are not allowed to starve and die in the streets is among the hallmarks of being a responsible citizen.
 
Please get off your elitist high horse and stop preaching to me. For your information ----- as if it matters ----- I have been self sufficient all my life and have never lived off anyone since I moved out of my folks house when I got out of college. And that was over forty years ago. So I do NOT need your pompous pontifications about what a good citizen is and what I am responsible for.

Having a society where the needy are taken care of and the weak are not allowed to starve and die in the streets is among the hallmarks of being a responsible citizen.
Agreed. People ought not allow the needy and weak to die in the street.

Fortunately, I don't know of anyone who would stand by an allow someone to die in the street.
 
Agreed. People ought not allow the needy and weak to die in the street.

Fortunately, I don't know of anyone who would stand by an allow someone to die in the street.

I know many who would set up the situation where that eventuality then comes to pass regardless of if they would personally let it happen or not. I work with them every day in the Michigan legislature .
 
You are right, they are victims. Everyone else is to blame for the fact that they have spent themselves into oblivion. It is not their fault that no one wants to lend them any more money. Its not the Greek peoples fault that they elected to office people who promised them more than they could deliver. I guess it must be my fault.

When it comes to deficit spending and what the Greeks get out of it, their actual government spending per GDP is much smaller compared to other "fiat" countries like GB, Japan, China, and several others.

The issues for them wasn't spending, it was a recession. People can't pay taxes when they don't have jobs. IF the ECB implemented a jobs program tomorrow, their budget problems would disappear.
 
I know many who would set up the situation where that eventuality then comes to pass regardless of if they would personally let it happen or not. I work with them every day in the Michigan legislature .
You know people who set up a situation where people allow the poor to die in the street? How do the legislate this? Do they pass laws that forbid feeding and clothing of the needy? That would be messed up.
 
You know people who set up a situation where people allow the poor to die in the street? How do the legislate this? Do they pass laws that forbid feeding and clothing of the needy? That would be messed up.

They legislate this by proposing legislation which cuts off such assistance that people now receive.

But since you are a person of average intellect, I highly suspect this is not a knew revelation and your question was rather disingenuous.

This should help you understand the mentality and ideology of far too many members of the Michigan legislature and where they get their ideas from.

http://alecexposed.org/wiki/Bills_Affecting_Human_Health

Scores and scores of ideas which would hurt people now getting help.
 
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They legislate this by proposing legislation which cuts off such assistance that people now receive.

But since you are a person of average intellect, I highly suspect this is not a knew revelation and your question was rather disingenuous.

This should help you understand the mentality and ideology of far too many members of the Michigan legislature and where they get their ideas from.

Bills Affecting Human Health - Alec Exposed

Scores and scores of ideas which would hurt people now getting help.

I see. So when you earlier said, "Having a society where the needy are taken care of and the weak are not allowed to starve and die in the streets is among the hallmarks of being a responsible citizen.", what you really meant was, "Having a government where the needy are taken care of and the weak are not allowed to starve and die in the streets is among the hallmarks of being a responsible citizen."

To me, society and government are not synonymous. To think they are inevitably leads to a government that does everything and a society that does nothing.
 
I see. So when you earlier said, "Having a society where the needy are taken care of and the weak are not allowed to starve and die in the streets is among the hallmarks of being a responsible citizen.", what you really meant was, "Having a government where the needy are taken care of and the weak are not allowed to starve and die in the streets is among the hallmarks of being a responsible citizen."

To me, society and government are not synonymous. To think they are inevitably leads to a government that does everything and a society that does nothing.

I am sure that you see no role for government. I am also sure you prefer to live in some sort of fantasy land where there is enough charity to do the job that government now does. Just go back into the days of America BEFORE government assumed these roles and tell me how all the poor and needy were taken care of in your fantasy.
 
I am sure that you see no role for government. I am also sure you prefer to live in some sort of fantasy land where there is enough charity to do the job that government now does. Just go back into the days of America BEFORE government assumed these roles and tell me how all the poor and needy were taken care of in your fantasy.

You are right. I don't think that it is appropriate or effective for the government, specifically a distant central government, to make sure that people don't die of starvation on the streets of my town. That is up to me and others in the community. If the government has to force us to take a dying person off the street, then we're in a pretty sad state.
 
You are right. I don't think that it is appropriate or effective for the government, specifically a distant central government, to make sure that people don't die of starvation on the streets of my town. That is up to me and others in the community. If the government has to force us to take a dying person off the street, then we're in a pretty sad state.

Human greed and indifference to others is indeed a pretty sad state. Sadly it is also reality as our own history proves. Once again, go back before government assumed this role and show us how wonderfully the private charity sector met the needs of the poor. I welcome that.
 
Please get off your elitist high horse and stop preaching to me. For your information ----- as if it matters ----- I have been self sufficient all my life and have never lived off anyone since I moved out of my folks house when I got out of college. And that was over forty years ago. So I do NOT need your pompous pontifications about what a good citizen is and what I am responsible for.

Having a society where the needy are taken care of and the weak are not allowed to starve and die in the streets is among the hallmarks of being a responsible citizen.

I agree. Wholeheartedly. A hallmark of a responsible citizen - the individual. But it is NOT the responsibility of the federal government.
 
I agree. Wholeheartedly. A hallmark of a responsible citizen - the individual. But it is NOT the responsibility of the federal government.

Perhaps you would care to go back into American history and demonstrate with verifiable evidence when these tasks were adequately taken care of before government assumed them?
 
Human greed and indifference to others is indeed a pretty sad state. Sadly it is also reality as our own history proves. Once again, go back before government assumed this role and show us how wonderfully the private charity sector met the needs of the poor. I welcome that.
I regard care for the poor as the responsibility of people in the community and state and local government. To me, the purpose of the federal government is to perform tasks that no individual state can accomplish on its own. Certainly, a state doesn't need the federal government to take care of its indigent citizens.
 
I regard care for the poor as the responsibility of people in the community and state and local government. To me, the purpose of the federal government is to perform tasks that no individual state can accomplish on its own. Certainly, a state doesn't need the federal government to take care of its indigent citizens.

I suspect a starving or needy person does not place a great deal of importance on the differences between a hamburger, a bowl of soup and a sandwich or the entity or level of government that it comes from. What matters to you - when you say "to me" is not consistent with our Constitution.
 
I suspect a starving or needy person does not place a great deal of importance on the differences between a hamburger, a bowl of soup and a sandwich or the entity or level of government that it comes from. What matters to you - when you say "to me" is not consistent with our Constitution.
Perhaps you're right. I still don't think that the states formed their compact so that the union could take care of their indigent. They were and are perfectly capable of performing this function on their own. To me (and that means IN MY OPINION) this responsibility is better handled by individuals in the community, local government, or state government.
 
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