• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

In South Carolina, attorney general says voting rights at risk

Karl said:
Please -- don't make stuff up and offer it as an argument.
Click to expand...
So you are saying this woman went out and got a ID as soon as the law was passed?f she is unable to vote then that is her own fault.She had sufficient time to get a ID and to able to take care of any potential problems that may come up.
It just wastes everyone's time, and makes the thread look dumb.
Click to expand...

Repeating that same dumb nonsense makes you look stupid.
 
Last edited:
upsideguy said:
first, your list of items that require photo ID's are for the exercise of privileges; voting is a right. The issue is about creating a barrier in the exercise of a RIGHT.
Click to expand...

Voting is not a unrestricted right.Notice it does not say shall not infring.

The only reason to require photo idea is voter suppression. Moreover, intelligent people realize that the vote that people are trying to suppress tends to vote for a particular party.
Click to expand...

The only people whose votes would be suppressed are those who are not supposed to be voting in the first place and those too lazy to get a ID or driver's license.

Its time to stop the intellectual dishonesty and just call this what it is: a Republican tactic to suppress Democratic votes.
Click to expand...

The only intellectual dishonesty is from those claiming that democrats are either too poor or too damn stupid to get a ID or driver's license.
 
ARealConservative said:
The counter proposals would undermine the results we would like to achieve. School ID’s are not a good method of improving the process.

Each school ID is unique, making it pretty much impossible for those in charge of monitoring the process to know if the ID is legitimate or a forgery. It also would make it easy for students to vote in two states, or even two districts in the same state.
Click to expand...

People forge documents of all varieties all the time. Correct me if I'm wrong...but the purpose of a photo ID is to make sure you are you....not replace any documentation required to register to vote.

I guess the question is....how many people are you willing to make it more difficult or more costly to vote to stop a handful of cases of voting fraud? If from the numbers I've seen millions now have to get some form of allowed voter ID as an expense to vote to stop less than a hundred voter fraud cases worth it?
 
danarhea said:
I don't know how it works in South Carolina, but in Texas, if you don't have a driver's license, you have to pay to get a state issued ID. If it is the same in South Carolina, and that ID is required in order to vote, then this amounts to a poll tax, and would be unconstitutional.
Click to expand...

I think the law is only defensible if the state will issue an ID card free of charge. Most states that require photo ID's do so to avoid any constitutional issues.
 
jamesrage said:
Voting is not a unrestricted right.Notice it does not say shall not infring.



The only people whose votes would be suppressed are those who are not supposed to be voting in the first place and those too lazy to get a ID or driver's license.



The only intellectual dishonesty is from those claiming that democrats are either too poor or too damn stupid to get a ID or driver's license.
Click to expand...

The right to vote is unconditional for those who meet the qualifications for voting. What states cannot do is impose 'unreasonable' qualifications on voting - such as the old poll tax or the grandfather clause or any of those other cute tricks used by southern states to disenfranchise blacks for a hundred years. The question then becomes whether or not the photo ID is one of those cute tricks. For example, how many locations are available where someone can obtain a photo ID if they don't drive? What does such an ID cost?

NOt Having enough money to purchase a photo ID would not sustain a constitutional challenge if that resulted in the disenfrachisement of voters.
 
Last edited:
iliveonramen said:
People forge documents of all varieties all the time.
Click to expand...

Correct. Take money for example. Imagine how much more difficult it would be to verify a bill was authentic if we had hundreds of varieties of the same bill.

School Id’s would create such a situation. So many different valid forms of Id’s would exist that it would be very difficult to spot a forged one.

I guess the question is....how many people are you willing to make it more difficult or more costly to vote to stop a handful of cases of voting fraud? If from the numbers I've seen millions now have to get some form of allowed voter ID as an expense to vote to stop less than a hundred voter fraud cases worth it?
Click to expand...

This type of fraud is so hard to get statistics on, and the importance of fair elections is so vital, I feel this is a major function of the existence of state power.
 
This type of fraud is so hard to get statistics on, and the importance of fair elections is so vital, I feel this is a major function of the existence of state power.
Click to expand...

I have no problem with voter ID's with pictures on them just to be clear that my problems have nothing to do with fair election..

According to hard statistics we do have...millions of Americans which come from the worst off in society do not have any of the accepted identifications. So you don't have any hard statistics proving the voter fraud is a major problem but we'll go ahead and pass laws that will impact millions of Americans we know according to hard statistics that will negatively impact them and we can safely say that some will become disanfranchised. I don't think that's rational at all.

Correct. Take money for example. Imagine how much more difficult it would be to verify a bill was authentic if we had hundreds of varieties of the same bill.

School Id’s would create such a situation. So many different valid forms of Id’s would exist that it would be very difficult to spot a forged one.
Click to expand...
Here is a list of different states with different allowable forms of identification.
Voter ID: State Requirements
 
iliveonramen said:
According to hard statistics we do have...millions of Americans which come from the worst off in society do not have any of the accepted identifications]
Click to expand...

A state should certainly do their best to implement an education policy to get the citizens aware of changes, but this is not a valid reason to not improve the process.
 
ARealConservative said:
A state should certainly do their best to implement an education policy to get the citizens aware of changes, but this is not a valid reason to not improve the process.
Click to expand...

It would be prudent to first decide what actions would improve the process. The one being discussed here is dubious.
 
ARealConservative said:
A state should certainly do their best to implement an education policy to get the citizens aware of changes, but this is not a valid reason to not improve the process.
Click to expand...

Like I said...I'm all for making elections as fair as possible. Creating a monetary barrier that would affect the least well off I do not agree with. Everything should pass the bar of...if a homeless man was registered to vote...he should have no problem exercising that right. Put a picture on the ID card or print out pictures next to the names on the lists.
 
ARealConservative said:
This type of fraud is so hard to get statistics on, and the importance of fair elections is so vital, I feel this is a major function of the existence of state power.
Click to expand...

So its that hard to get statistics on? Then, on what do you base your opinion?

How do you really know it is an issue at all?
 
tryreading said:
So its that hard to get statistics on? Then, on what do you base your opinion?

How do you really know it is an issue at all?
Click to expand...

why does it have to be proved to be a major issue? Every season we find some crazy occurrence somewhere in the country. Just happened in Iowa this month in fact.

We know elections can be decided by the smallest of numbers, and we know voting irregularities, including people double voting have been found.

the function of the state is to provide fair honest elections. I'm certainly not arguing this is the largest issue facing the country today, but it is a problem.
 
ARealConservative said:
why does it have to be proved to be a major issue? Every season we find some crazy occurrence somewhere in the country. Just happened in Iowa this month in fact.

We know elections can be decided by the smallest of numbers, and we know voting irregularities, including people double voting have been found.

the function of the state is to provide fair honest elections. I'm certainly not arguing this is the largest issue facing the country today, but it is a problem.
Click to expand...

At least it has to be proved to be an issue, or we are all wasting our time here.

If its so hard to prove the issue at all, as you suggested, then there is no need to address it.
 
tryreading said:
At least it has to be proved to be an issue, or we are all wasting our time here.

If its so hard to prove the issue at all, as you suggested, then there is no need to address it.
Click to expand...

residents of some states disagree apparently.
 
ARealConservative said:
[...] the function of the state is to provide fair honest elections. [...]
Click to expand...
If the state introduces a voting requirement that prevents some legal voters from casting their ballot, then the state is not providing fair honest elections. Agreed?
 
The right to vote is an extremely important right. I understand the desire to make it as legitimate as possible but that can't be done in a way that makes it harder.

I really have a problem with a guy that had no problem with thugs outside of a polling place with nightsticks telling me this though.
 
I find it funny that the two major parties have implemented all kinds of rules preventing people from gaining ballot access, and we are worried about ID's suppressing peoples votes.
 
ARealConservative said:
I find it funny that the two major parties have implemented all kinds of rules preventing people from gaining ballot access, and we are worried about ID's suppressing peoples votes.
Click to expand...
Can you give us some examples of these rules that have been implemented by the Democratic Party?
 
1Perry said:
The right to vote is an extremely important right. I understand the desire to make it as legitimate as possible but that can't be done in a way that makes it harder.

I really have a problem with a guy that had no problem with thugs outside of a polling place with nightsticks telling me this though.
Click to expand...
1. Your argument that Holder "had no problem"? (observation: missing).

2. How many "thugs" were there? (answer: 2).

3. How many of those "thugs" lived in the building they were standing outside of? (answer: 1).

4. How many nightsticks were there? (answer: 1).

5. How many of the "thugs" were served an injunction? (answer: 1 -- the 1 that had the nightstick and did not live there).

6. How many of the "thugs" received no legal action at all? (answer: 1 -- the 1 that did not have a nightstick and did live there).

7. How many people were prevented from voting?
 
Wiggen said:
The right to vote is unconditional for those who meet the qualifications for voting.
Click to expand...

That is a contradictory statement seeing how qualification is a condition.


NOt Having enough money to purchase a photo ID would not sustain a constitutional challenge if that resulted in the disenfrachisement of voters.
Click to expand...

A photo ID is cheap and in some states that ID is free..The idea that a ID to vote or is a disenfranchisement of voters is laughable. I guess its nice to know that the left think the elderly and minorities either too stupid to walk down to a DMV to get a free ID or too stupid to save up 5 or 10 bucks to get a ID.
 
ARealConservative said:
Karl said:
ARealConservative said:
I find it funny that the two major parties have implemented all kinds of rules preventing people from gaining ballot access, and we are worried about ID's suppressing peoples votes.
Click to expand...
Can you give us some examples of these rules that have been implemented by the Democratic Party?
Click to expand...
List of States with Open and Closed Primaries « Grassroots Idaho GOP

[url]http://freethevotenc.com/news/?p=624
[/URL]
Click to expand...
I looked at both your links. I didn't find your response in either of them. Perhaps you could spell it out in your own words?
 
Karl said:
I looked at both your links. I didn't find your response in either of them. Perhaps you could spell it out in your own words?
Click to expand...

the two major parties are obviously trying to control who is on the ballot and have done a remarkable job in that regard in some states. Leaving out other ideologies is a form of voter suppression.
 
jamesrage said:
[...] A photo ID is cheap and in some states that ID is free..The idea that a ID to vote or is a disenfranchisement of voters is laughable. I guess its nice to know that the left think the elderly and minorities either too stupid to walk down to a DMV to get a free ID or too stupid to save up 5 or 10 bucks to get a ID.
Click to expand...
So, you think the elderly should walk 5 -30 miles in order to vote (to get an ID).

You also think that the elderly and minorities should pay 5 or 10 bucks to vote (to get an ID).

Interesting type of democracy you've laid out there.

But tell us... to get an ID, you just walk to the DMV and cough up 5 or 10 bucks, right? That's all there is to it? You just tell them what your name is, and where you live, and they print all that out and stick your picture on it and you're done, right?

You don't have to bring any, like, documentation with you, right? Documentation that some legal citizens may not have, right?

96-year-old Chattanooga woman denied voter ID -- The Associated Press

Ninety-six-year-old Dorothy Cooper has been voting for more than seven decades, so the Chattanooga resident was eager to get a photo identification card when she heard it would be required for the next election.

On Monday, Cooper gathered a rent receipt, a copy of her lease, her voter registration card and her birth certificate and went to a Driver Service Center to get the free identification card offered by the state as part of the new voter identification law. But the clerk refused to give Cooper a card because her birth certificate carried her maiden name, Dorothy Alexander, and she didn't have a copy of her marriage certificate, she told the Chattanooga Times Free Press [...]

RealClearPolitics - Politics - Oct 07, 2011 - 96-year-old Chattanooga woman denied voter ID
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom