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Rick Perry Defends Marines Who Urinated On Corpses

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TheDemSocialist

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WASHINGTON — Republican presidential hopeful Rick Perry on Sunday accused the Obama administration of "over-the-top rhetoric" and "disdain for the military" in its condemnation of a video that purportedly shows four Marines urinating on corpses in Afghanistan.
Perry's comments put him at odds with Sen. John McCain, the top Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, who said the images could damage the war effort.[FONT=Arial, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif]"The Marine Corps prides itself that we don't lower ourselves to the level of the enemy," McCain said when asked about Perry's position. "So it makes me sad more than anything else, because ... I can't tell you how wonderful these people (Marines) are. And it hurts their reputation and their image."[/FONT]

Texas Gov. Perry said the Marines involved should be reprimanded but not prosecuted on criminal charges.
"Obviously, 18-, 19-year-old kids make stupid mistakes all too often. And that's what's occurred here," Perry told CNN's "State of the Union."
He later added: "What's really disturbing to me is the kind of over-the-top rhetoric from this administration and their disdain for the military."
[FONT=Arial, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif]Later appearing on the same show, McCain said he disagreed.[/FONT]

"We're trying to win the hearts and minds" of the Afghanistan population, he said. "And when something like that comes up, it obviously harms that ability."
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[FONT=Arial, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif]Read full article @: [/FONT]Rick Perry Defends Marines Who Urinated On Corpses[FONT=Arial, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif]My find a rarity in my case but i agree with McCain here. Seems like Perry is just pulling the "look at me i disagree with Obama here, so like me!" card.

Thoughts?
Comments?
Response? [/FONT]

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TheDemSocialist said:
[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif]Read full article @: [/FONT]Rick Perry Defends Marines Who Urinated On Corpses[FONT=Arial, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif]My find a rarity in my case but i agree with McCain here. Seems like Perry is just pulling the "look at me i disagree with Obama here, so like me!" card.

Thoughts?
Comments?
Response? [/FONT]

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I also agree with McCain. I reallly don't see Perry at odds with McCain with his comments either.

I rather agree that Panetta was a bit over the top in his comments, so I understand where Perry's coming from there as well.
 
Perry will say WHATEVER it takes to get the conservative vote. I don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth.
 
MaggieD said:
I also agree with McCain. I reallly don't see Perry at odds with McCain with his comments either.

I rather agree that Panetta was a bit over the top in his comments, so I understand where Perry's coming from there as well.
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That it could hurt peace talks? The article says this:

Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said last week that he worried the video could be used by the Taliban to undermine peace talks.

And some think this is more over the top than, say, this:

Republican presidential hopeful Rick Perry on Sunday accused the Obama administration of "over-the-top rhetoric" and "disdain for the military" in its condemnation of a video that purportedly shows four Marines urinating on corpses in Afghanistan.

?????

While I agree with part of Perry's comments ("Obviously, 18-, 19-year-old kids make stupid mistakes all too often. And that's what's occurred here," . . . ), he should have stopped there.
 
He doesn't seem to be defending the Marines who did this. He seems to be saying that they need corrective discipline, but that destroying their careers over this would be a mistake.

I'm disgusted by what they did, but I agree with him. The people we need to be angry with are the people that don't see a problem with what they did.
 
Boo Radley said:
That it could hurt peace talks? The article says this:

Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said last week that he worried the video could be used by the Taliban to undermine peace talks.

And some think this is more over the top than, say, this:

Republican presidential hopeful Rick Perry on Sunday accused the Obama administration of "over-the-top rhetoric" and "disdain for the military" in its condemnation of a video that purportedly shows four Marines urinating on corpses in Afghanistan.

?????

While I agree with part of Perry's comments ("Obviously, 18-, 19-year-old kids make stupid mistakes all too often. And that's what's occurred here," . . . ), he should have stopped there.
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I was referring to Panetta's comments that included calling their conduct "utterly deplorable." But we've been having that argument on another thread for 800+ posts. ;)
 
MaggieD said:
I was referring to Panetta's comments that included calling their conduct "utterly deplorable." But we've been having that argument on another thread for 800+ posts. ;)
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I was just checking. Though while I would not destroy their careers, I wouldn't call utterly deplorable an over the top rethoric. Especially in comparison with the distain for the military comment.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif]Read full article @: [/FONT]Rick Perry Defends Marines Who Urinated On Corpses[FONT=Arial, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif]My find a rarity in my case but i agree with McCain here. Seems like Perry is just pulling the "look at me i disagree with Obama here, so like me!" card.

Thoughts?
Comments?
Response? [/FONT]

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Hard to believe, but I agree with Perry. If it's OK to shoot the SOB, it's OK to piss on 'em. It's real war to the pissers and they are just kids. That doesn't mean it is something to be encouraged just degrading, the same as war in general. The pictures are the mistake. You know the military likes to get these kids while they can still adjust their minds and that, in itself, speaks volumes. OBL is dead, what the hell are we doing in Afghanistan? Send your indignation up the chain of command where it belongs and stop the friggin' war. The war causes the deaths, the pissing is incidental.
 
Viktyr Korimir said:
He doesn't seem to be defending the Marines who did this. He seems to be saying that they need corrective discipline, but that destroying their careers over this would be a mistake.

I'm disgusted by what they did, but I agree with him. The people we need to be angry with are the people that don't see a problem with what they did.
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I think those soldiers should face charges, and be busted down to private. They can attempt to repair their own careers at that point. What they did reflects badly on the other 99.9% of soldiers who are honorable.
 
I agree with Perry on this one they need to be taken care of within the Marines, these guys should not be hung out to dry by the government just to secure a peace deal. This kind of thing happens in war and I know myself and im sure other who have served can back me up on that fact, most of the time you look the other way when its going on. They were stupid to video it but Marines are not known for their common sense.
 
Doesn't their basic training include any instruction on how a marine is expected to behave towards the bodies of dead enemy combatants? Seems like the failure lies a little further up the chain of command.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif]Read full article @: [/FONT]Rick Perry Defends Marines Who Urinated On Corpses[FONT=Arial, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif]My find a rarity in my case but i agree with McCain here. Seems like Perry is just pulling the "look at me i disagree with Obama here, so like me!" card.

Thoughts?
Comments?
Response? [/FONT]

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I agree with what both of them have said.

It was bad judgement - check.
It was a stupid idea - check.
It makes marines look bad - check.
It makes us look bad - check.
It might make others less likely to want to cooperate with us - check.
Our government at times seems to care more about how we treat the enemy dead than how our dead and captured are treated - check.
 
When this story first came out I was shocked and appalled as anyone else. I tried to understand what state of mind the Marine's could possibly be in to commit such an attrocity.

Then I let it sink in for a while. I read a zillion opinions on it here at Debate Politics.

I calmed down a bit. I thought about, how bad should I feel that a military representative from my country, was video taped showing the most utter disrespect for our enemy, most likey the taliban or a taliban supporter/sympathizer, by urinating on their dead, stinking, rotting corpses?

My thoughts on this topic tend to change from day to day.

I am at a "piss on 'em" kinda place right now.

It's been an interesting ride so far.

Carry on.
 
danarhea said:
I think those soldiers should face charges, and be busted down to private. They can attempt to repair their own careers at that point. What they did reflects badly on the other 99.9% of soldiers who are honorable.
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Without knowing what their service records, you're ready to illegally bust some of them down to private?

These men have done something that most of the handwringers never have: risked their lives in the service of their country. They've earned a little slack.

And no, Obama isn't risking his life. He's surrounded by multiple layers of security that is inpenetrable.
 
Andalublue said:
Doesn't their basic training include any instruction on how a marine is expected to behave towards the bodies of dead enemy combatants? Seems like the failure lies a little further up the chain of command.
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In a word...no.

I spent 12 years in the Army, as an infantryman--one of the very soldiers that needed to know those kinds of regulations the most--and I was in the service for about 8 years before I was ever exposed to anything that might remotely come close to suggesting that pissing on a dead enemy might even sorta be a violation of any rule, regulation, or order.

Now, was I educated on how to treat a live enemy? i.e. a POW? Hell yes! But, dead enemies? No, not really too much at all.
 
I just think it's emensely ironic how the treatment of a dead body means so much.

After they were given training, permission and support to kill him in the first place.

"It's ok to kill him - but you better on touch him after he's dead" . . . lol - oh please.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
I just think it's emensely ironic how the treatment of a dead body means so much.

After they were given training, permission and support to kill him in the first place.

"It's ok to kill him - but you better on touch him after he's dead" . . . lol - oh please.
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A lot of the general public "support" the troops they like the romantic idea that these guys are out there fighting for freedom and defending the flag. They buy the bumper stickers and buy a Vet a beer at the bar etc, they are fine with it all because they normally only see the "good side" of war but as soon as it gets a little dirty they are they first to start crying and calling for justice. If they want these guys to kill for them then they have to expect a little collateral damage
 
TheDemSocialist said:
[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif]Read full article @: [/FONT]Rick Perry Defends Marines Who Urinated On Corpses[FONT=Arial, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif]My find a rarity in my case but i agree with McCain here. Seems like Perry is just pulling the "look at me i disagree with Obama here, so like me!" card.

Thoughts?
Comments?
Response? [/FONT]

[/LEFT]
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Whatever. It's Perry. He's said plenty of things stupider than this.
 
danarhea said:
I think those soldiers should face charges, and be busted down to private. They can attempt to repair their own careers at that point.
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Yes, I believe that would be adequate. I'm just saying that anything more than restricted privileges, punishment details, and demotion would be unwarranted.

apdst said:
These men have done something that most of the handwringers never have: risked their lives in the service of their country. They've earned a little slack.
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I'm sorry, but what about the thousands of men who have also risked-- and in some cases, given-- their lives in service to our country, and still managed to uphold the honor of the uniform and the values of our people? I would think that anyone who has served this country with honor, especially in dangerous and stressful situations like these Marines have, would be insulted if we cut these Marines too much slack because we "understand" what they did. To me, that says that we don't expect better of our servicemen than this, which is almost as insulting to our military personnel as the filth that comes out of the war protesters' mouths.

All of the veterans I know in real life are disgusted by this. The only people I've met who don't have a problem with it have been civilians and people on the internet whose claims of military service I can only take at face value.
 
Viktyr Korimir said:
Yes, I believe that would be adequate. I'm just saying that anything more than restricted privileges, punishment details, and demotion would be unwarranted.



I'm sorry, but what about the thousands of men who have also risked-- and in some cases, given-- their lives in service to our country, and still managed to uphold the honor of the uniform and the values of our people? I would think that anyone who has served this country with honor, especially in dangerous and stressful situations like these Marines have, would be insulted if we cut these Marines too much slack because we "understand" what they did. To me, that says that we don't expect better of our servicemen than this, which is almost as insulting to our military personnel as the filth that comes out of the war protesters' mouths.

All of the veterans I know in real life are disgusted by this. The only people I've met who don't have a problem with it have been civilians and people on the internet whose claims of military service I can only take at face value.
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you can still be disgusted by it but still not want them to be hung out to dry
 
Viktyr Korimir said:
Exactly. I want to use them as an example, not as sacrificial lambs.
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ok fair enough I agree with that. There are proper channels that can and will be used to punish these guys and I don't know much about the US Marines but im sure that they will struggle to move forward with their military careers from now on. It would be too risky for the US military to allow these men to ever reach a rank where they would be in charge of other men, im sure the press would be all over it.
 
I am certain that these men can learn to behave appropriately with the proper guidance, and a well-phrased apology is usually sufficient to make something like this go away.

The problem is that public apologies are so very rarely well-phrased.
 
I had no higher expectations of Perry, so I cannot say that I am at all surprised.
 
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