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U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

not-this-again.jpg

What? You still can't show us the surrender documents? :lamo
 
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What? You still can't show us the surrender documents? :lmao

So a war is only lost if it is officially notarized on paper. Got it. :roll:

I'm sure the Gauls would love to know that the didn't actually get crushed by the Romans.
 
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My take on this is that it is in bad taste that we have Marines, or any other service members acting in such fashion. They are there to protect the U.S.A. I can understand that stress of war will get to people over time. Its bad taste, but certainly does not go to the level of such disdain. The biggest problem I have is that there will be a huge investigation, all kinds of heads will roll, but ultimately who is responsible for the actions of the Marines is the Marines who did this. Lately it is all too common of a practice in government to make way too big of an issue with this type of incident. Those who acted with a lack of military bearing should be repremanded in accordance with the UCMJ for acting with a lack of military bearing. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
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So a war is only lost if it is officially notarized on paper. Got it. :roll:

I'm sure the Gauls would love to know that the didn't actually get crushed by the Romans.

What standard are you using to suggest that the United States, "lost", the Vietnam War?

And please, don't misinterpret Clauswitz again.
 
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My sentiments exactly:


Allen West on the Marines Incident: 'Shut Your Mouth, War Is Hell' | The Weekly Standard

Allen West on the Marines Incident: 'Shut Your Mouth, War Is Hell'

Daniel Halper

January 13, 2012 1:37 PM



Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.), a former Army lieutenant colonel, sends THE WEEKLY STANDARD an email commenting on the Marines' video, and has given us permission to publish it.
“I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah.
“All these over-emotional pundits and armchair quarterbacks need to chill. Does anyone remember the two Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division who were beheaded and gutted in Iraq?
“The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General Officer level letter of reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter.
“As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell.”
 
The war in Nam was lost in America not in Nam and sadly the people that lost it now run America.

How different do you think US-Vietnam relationship would be today if we had won?
 
What standard are you using to suggest that the United States, "lost", the Vietnam War?

And please, don't misinterpret Clauswitz again.

Hint: Today, Vietnam is a country ruled by the Communist Party. I'd say that's a pretty heavy indictment.
 
Are we sure this isn't a bunch of America hating libs acting like marines? No surprise that your link takes us to Huffington Post.

Sometimes you just gotta shake your head...FYI, it's not just HuffPo that's reporting this. You'd know this if you read/watch the damn news.
 

So, today, along with the "race card," the "race card" card, we now have the "war is hell, you have never served so don't judge our troops" card.

It's funny to me that the people who are first in line to put military personnel on an untouchable pedestal, are also the first in line to let this kinda **** slide. Once again, whatever happened to HONOR, Courage, and Commitment? Do you consider these acts honorable? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell you that pissing on dead corpses is not ethical behavior, whether it's an expected or normal response or not.

Do you stand for a military that adheres to high moral and ethical standards (not to mention not doing stupid **** like taking a video and uploading this **** onto Youtube)?

Why are there so many low-expectation-havin mother****ers in this thread?
 
The local news just reported that 3/4 Marines have retained counsel. I think the guy who recorded it and whomever posted it on youtube are worse
 
That's a good question because our relationship with them now seems like we did win, very cordial and we do alot of business with them.

My thoughts too. It makes me wonder if we lost 58,000 of my generation for nothing.

Am not anti-military either. I remember being in boot camp marching and singing we were going to kill Viet Cong and we were all bursting at the seam to do just that.
I just don't about that war now.
World War II was just and Pearl Harbor still angers me even though I was not born yet.

Not to wonder off on a tangent but I read statistics on Vietnam Vets and the fact that Vietnam veterans have a lower unemployment rate than our non-vet age group made me wonder about all those guys at the stoplights with signs saying Vietnam Vet, Anything Helps.
 
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The local news just reported that 3/4 Marines have retained counsel. I think the guy who recorded it and whomever posted it on youtube are worse

These soldiers were aware of the Geneva Convention and Rules of War and they filmed this violation of such laws. They should be punished, just for being stupid if nothing else.

Besides what grown man wants another grown man to be shooting film of him while he is making PeePee. That is my big question.:shock:
 
So, today, along with the "race card," the "race card" card, we now have the "war is hell, you have never served so don't judge our troops" card.
This happens in a lot of instances, not just with the military. In religious threads, you have Christians who don't think non-Christians can have a valid opinion about Christianity. In threads about the Constitution, lawyers don't think non-lawyers can have valid opinions about the constitutionality of law. It goes on and on.

There is certainly something to say for experience and from what I've seen, most non-military people have acknowledged rather than dismissed what military people have said about war being hell and soldiers having to dehumanize the opposition. So it seems that the "you just don't understand" card is just a way to shout down different opinions.

The rest of your post was spot on as well. I, personally, hold the military in high regard. I hold my country to high standards and I imagine that most military vets and current members hold the military and the country to high standards as well. In fact, the veterans in my family took/take the "honor code" very seriously. Consequently, I have a problem with the idea that the hell of war makes pissing on dead bodies okay, particularly since so many troops come home without ever doing it or similar things. To a certain extent, their actions are understandable, but the explanations for their behavior should not be used as excuses.
 
This happens in a lot of instances, not just with the military. In religious threads, you have Christians who don't think non-Christians can have a valid opinion about Christianity. In threads about the Constitution, lawyers don't think non-lawyers can have valid opinions about the constitutionality of law. It goes on and on.

There is certainly something to say for experience and from what I've seen, most non-military people have acknowledged rather than dismissed what military people have said about war being hell and soldiers having to dehumanize the opposition. So it seems that the "you just don't understand" card is just a way to shout down different opinions.

The rest of your post was spot on as well. I, personally, hold the military in high regard. I hold my country to high standards and I imagine that most military vets and current members hold the military and the country to high standards as well. In fact, the veterans in my family took/take the "honor code" very seriously. Consequently, I have a problem with the idea that the hell of war makes pissing on dead bodies okay, particularly since so many troops come home without ever doing it or similar things. To a certain extent, their actions are understandable, but the explanations for their behavior should not be used as excuses.

I'm 100% with you bro.
 
So, today, along with the "race card," the "race card" card, we now have the "war is hell, you have never served so don't judge our troops" card.

It's funny to me that the people who are first in line to put military personnel on an untouchable pedestal, are also the first in line to let this kinda **** slide. Once again, whatever happened to HONOR, Courage, and Commitment? Do you consider these acts honorable? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell you that pissing on dead corpses is not ethical behavior, whether it's an expected or normal response or not.

Do you stand for a military that adheres to high moral and ethical standards (not to mention not doing stupid **** like taking a video and uploading this **** onto Youtube)?

Why are there so many low-expectation-havin mother****ers in this thread?

What should the punishment be then? Hanging? Twenty years hard labor at Leavenworth?

I think Wests punishment would be enough, especially for brave men who risk there lifes so you could spew your talking points on Forums like this

The killing was ethical but the pissing wasnt? Really..... Do you have any knowledge of what went on in WW2 against the Japs? You know the stuff that wasnt in most of the history books. I really dont think you have a clue what go's on in war and how it can traumitze people in different ways. And you dont seem to have any sympathy for there plight.

Its pretty easy for a know it all, holier than thou, Liberal like you to put yourself on a pedestal and claim moral superiority. The fact is you've probably never been in anywhere near as tough a position as these guys may have been or guys like them who have probably had to see several of there friends go home in little pieces or see little Afghan kids who they gave candy to the week before get there hand cut off because of it. No I doubt that with any sincerity that you could claim that in a killing zone where almost anything go's that you would not end up doing something not up to "Your" Ethical standards. Compared to the guys who risk there as* for the right for guys like you to sit your as* on that computer and give your opinions you simply have no credibility.
 
What should the punishment be then? Hanging? Twenty years hard labor at Leavenworth?

I think Wests punishment would be enough, especially for brave men who risk there lifes so you could spew your talking points on Forums like this

I said nothing about the punishment. I am not concerned with their punishment, and I'm not asking for a harsh punishment. I am concerned with, as I said above, the playing of the "war is hell" card.

The killing was ethical but the pissing wasnt? Really..... Do you have any knowledge of what went on in WW2 against the Japs? You know the stuff that wasnt in most of the history books. I really dont think you have a clue what go's on in war and how it can traumitze people in different ways. And you dont seem to have any sympathy for there plight.

As a student of military history, I am quite aware of the crap that went down. I have also made it very clear elsewhere that I know very well that war dehumanizes and brutalizes the individual. That should not be an excuse for engaging in unethical (much less stupid) conduct, especially given the lengths we, as Americans go to praise the professionalism of our troops.

It's about as ridiculous as saying "I'm a teenager, therefore I am entitled to do dumb **** and go out and drive while intoxicated and nobody should get mad at me because I am a teenager, and people expect teenagers to do dumb ****."

Its pretty easy for a know it all, holier than thou, Liberal like you to put yourself on a pedestal and claim moral superiority. The fact is you've probably never been in anywhere near as tough a position as these guys may have been or guys like them who have probably had to see several of there friends go home in little pieces or see little Afghan kids who they gave candy to the week before get there hand cut off because of it. No I doubt that with any sincerity that you could claim that in a killing zone where almost anything go's that you would not end up doing something not up to "Your" Ethical standards. Compared to the guys who risk there as* for the right for guys like you to sit your as* on that computer and give your opinions you simply have no credibility.

Hogwash. This is a perfect example of what I was just talking about. This has jack to do with MY ethical standards and everything to do with how the Corps bills itself to the public. It has everything to do with putting your money where your mouth is. The military claims to instill ethical and moral values and its own troops - it's good to see that they're concerned when the code is violated, so I have no problem with the military's institutional response to this situation. I have absolutely no problem with how the military is handling this.

Like I said, I'm more upset with people who seem to think that one can't judge other's actions simply because one hasn't been in a similar situation. Why all this bull**** about black liberals playing the "race card" then? Most critics of those people aren't black, the **** you know about what it's like to be black in America? Nevertheless people voice their own opinions anyway, and in many cases those opinions about people playing the race card are legitimate and valid despite those people not being black.

At the end of the day, my response has to do with holding individuals to a high standard - standards that the military, as an institution, has created for itself. It pisses me off to no end that for some people, it means jack **** when those standards aren't met, and yet those individuals are the first to praise the military unconditionally and engage in bumper-sticker patriotism elsewhere.
 
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The fact is you've probably never been in anywhere near as tough a position as these guys may have been or guys like them who have probably had to see several of there friends go home in little pieces or see little Afghan kids who they gave candy to the week before get there hand cut off because of it. .
A lot of military men and women have gone through the same or similar things and didn't piss on dead bodies. Consequently, while the actions described in the OP are understandable given the amount of mental stress these soldiers might have experienced (we don't even know what they've experienced), it doesn't excuse their behavior.

Your argument amounts to "if you haven't experienced it, you don't have a valid opinion". By that logic, no one should ever comment on anything that they haven't experienced which makes absolutely zero sense, particularly in this case since everyone has a stake in how our military behaves.

I can understand your desire to defend these guys since you seemingly know what it's like to be them in some sense, but when they sign up to represent an entire country, then the members of that country can certainly have a valid opinion on their behavior. At the same time, non-military individuals should also seek to understand their potential mentality before making judgments which it seems most non-military people in this thread have done. There's really not more you can ask than to have people seek to understand before coming to conclusions. So unless the Marines stop representing me, unless you start paying my taxes and unless the actions of those soldiers stop having the potential to affect me, my family and my country, then that's what I'm going to do and your attempt to shout down any non-military opinion will be done in vain.
 
As an addendum to my previous post:

"I have viewed an internet video that depicts Marines desecrating several dead Taliban in Afghanistan. I want to be clear and unambiguous, the behavior depicted in the video is wholly inconsistent with the high standards of conduct and warrior ethos that we have demonstrated throughout our history." - Gen. James Amos, Commandant of the Marine Corps

From the mouth of the man himself. Once again, Iron Yank, this has NOTHING to do with my personal beliefs or ethics.

Honor: Honor requires each Marine to exemplify the ultimate standard in ethical and moral conduct. Honor is many things; honor requires many things. A U.S. Marine must never lie, never cheat, never steal, but that is not enough. Much more is required. Each Marine must cling to an uncompromising code of personal integrity, accountable for his actions and holding others accountable for theirs. And, above all, honor mandates that a Marine never sully the reputation of his Corps.

The Corps itself claims to adhere to high standards of conduct - I did not make them say that. Once again, this has nothing to do with my liberal self-righteousness and everything to do with the Corps own professed values. It is only fair that they put their money where their mouth is and adhere to, and reaffirm, those standards when they are violated.

So, given the above, I believe I bring up a fair point about the behavior of those Marines regardless of whether or not I've served in uniform or combat, so you can shut it with the "war is hell so don't judge them" card.

It's about about as ridiculous as accusing a white person of 'not knowing what it's like to be black, how dare you judge me when you're not black' when the race card is played.
 
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:lamo


Now that's funny right there. Infantry Marines are taught and trained to steal everything that isn't nailed down and sometimes stuff that is nailed down but inadequately guarded. That's how we get gear.

We also lie all the time:
Colonel out "visiting the troops to buck up their morale": "Hey there devil-dog! How's it going"
Marine who hates everyone above the rank of Sergeant and who just spent his 6 hours of sleep time cleaning because the F'ing Colonel was coming: "Going fine, Sir."

We cheat all the time too - you think calling in air support in a small arms engagement is fair? Of course it's not - but screw those guys, they have it coming.


You seem to have fallen for the propaganda. The more accurate version is "A U.S. Marine Must Never Be Caught A) Lying to those who don't want the truth, B)Stealing from the other services, Or C) Cheating in a fight in such a way as to draw censure". The only thing that's fully accurate is the last - no Marine is allowed to sully the Corps by being caught - hence these guys will get what they have coming to them irregardless.
 
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:lamo


Now that's funny right there. Marines steal everything that isn't nailed down and sometimes stuff that is nailed down but inadequately guarded. That's how we get gear.

We also lie all the time:
Colonel out "visiting the troops to buck up their morale": "Hey there devil-dog! How's it going"
Marine who hates everyone above the rank of Sergeant and who just spent his 6 hours of sleep time cleaning because the F'ing Colonel was coming: "Going fine, Sir."

We cheat all the time too - you think calling in air support in a small arms engagement is fair? Of course it's not - but screw those guys, they have it coming.


You seem to have fallen for the propaganda. The more accurate version is "A U.S. Marine Must Never Be Caught A) Lying to those who don't want the truth, B)Stealing from the other services, Or C) Cheating in a fight in such a way as to draw censure". The only thing that's fully accurate is the last - no Marine is allowed to sully the Corps by being caught - hence these guys will get what they have coming to them irregardless.

lol I actually got a good laugh out of that.
 
A lot of military men and women have gone through the same or similar things and didn't piss on dead bodies.

no, they do other things. I've seen them play with the bodies, for example. Guys watching "kill tv" will often have a running bookie on whether or not a guy will make it or become paste.


Or they live in a Locked Up Chain Of Command who doesn't allow them any relaxation on deployment, so they go home, become alcoholics, and beat their wives and children. :shrug:
 
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