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What? You still can't show us the surrender documents? :lamo
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What? You still can't show us the surrender documents? :lmao
So a war is only lost if it is officially notarized on paper. Got it. :roll:
I'm sure the Gauls would love to know that the didn't actually get crushed by the Romans.
It is no longer the 60's and 70's. We lost Vietnam. It is not cowardice to judge actions. I did my time in the service and at war.
Are we sure this isn't a bunch of America hating libs acting like marines? No surprise that your link takes us to Huffington Post.See more and video @: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan (GRAPHIC VIDEO)Well this certainly will not help our cause. These soldiers need to be brought to justice ASAP. This makes my stomach just numb...
Thoughts?
Comments?
Response?
Allen West on the Marines Incident: 'Shut Your Mouth, War Is Hell'
Daniel Halper
January 13, 2012 1:37 PM
Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.), a former Army lieutenant colonel, sends THE WEEKLY STANDARD an email commenting on the Marines' video, and has given us permission to publish it.
“I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah.
“All these over-emotional pundits and armchair quarterbacks need to chill. Does anyone remember the two Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division who were beheaded and gutted in Iraq?
“The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General Officer level letter of reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter.
“As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell.”
The war in Nam was lost in America not in Nam and sadly the people that lost it now run America.
What standard are you using to suggest that the United States, "lost", the Vietnam War?
And please, don't misinterpret Clauswitz again.
Are we sure this isn't a bunch of America hating libs acting like marines? No surprise that your link takes us to Huffington Post.
How different do you think US-Vietnam relationship would be today if we had won?
That's a good question because our relationship with them now seems like we did win, very cordial and we do alot of business with them.
The local news just reported that 3/4 Marines have retained counsel. I think the guy who recorded it and whomever posted it on youtube are worse
This happens in a lot of instances, not just with the military. In religious threads, you have Christians who don't think non-Christians can have a valid opinion about Christianity. In threads about the Constitution, lawyers don't think non-lawyers can have valid opinions about the constitutionality of law. It goes on and on.So, today, along with the "race card," the "race card" card, we now have the "war is hell, you have never served so don't judge our troops" card.
This happens in a lot of instances, not just with the military. In religious threads, you have Christians who don't think non-Christians can have a valid opinion about Christianity. In threads about the Constitution, lawyers don't think non-lawyers can have valid opinions about the constitutionality of law. It goes on and on.
There is certainly something to say for experience and from what I've seen, most non-military people have acknowledged rather than dismissed what military people have said about war being hell and soldiers having to dehumanize the opposition. So it seems that the "you just don't understand" card is just a way to shout down different opinions.
The rest of your post was spot on as well. I, personally, hold the military in high regard. I hold my country to high standards and I imagine that most military vets and current members hold the military and the country to high standards as well. In fact, the veterans in my family took/take the "honor code" very seriously. Consequently, I have a problem with the idea that the hell of war makes pissing on dead bodies okay, particularly since so many troops come home without ever doing it or similar things. To a certain extent, their actions are understandable, but the explanations for their behavior should not be used as excuses.
So, today, along with the "race card," the "race card" card, we now have the "war is hell, you have never served so don't judge our troops" card.
It's funny to me that the people who are first in line to put military personnel on an untouchable pedestal, are also the first in line to let this kinda **** slide. Once again, whatever happened to HONOR, Courage, and Commitment? Do you consider these acts honorable? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell you that pissing on dead corpses is not ethical behavior, whether it's an expected or normal response or not.
Do you stand for a military that adheres to high moral and ethical standards (not to mention not doing stupid **** like taking a video and uploading this **** onto Youtube)?
Why are there so many low-expectation-havin mother****ers in this thread?
What should the punishment be then? Hanging? Twenty years hard labor at Leavenworth?
I think Wests punishment would be enough, especially for brave men who risk there lifes so you could spew your talking points on Forums like this
The killing was ethical but the pissing wasnt? Really..... Do you have any knowledge of what went on in WW2 against the Japs? You know the stuff that wasnt in most of the history books. I really dont think you have a clue what go's on in war and how it can traumitze people in different ways. And you dont seem to have any sympathy for there plight.
Its pretty easy for a know it all, holier than thou, Liberal like you to put yourself on a pedestal and claim moral superiority. The fact is you've probably never been in anywhere near as tough a position as these guys may have been or guys like them who have probably had to see several of there friends go home in little pieces or see little Afghan kids who they gave candy to the week before get there hand cut off because of it. No I doubt that with any sincerity that you could claim that in a killing zone where almost anything go's that you would not end up doing something not up to "Your" Ethical standards. Compared to the guys who risk there as* for the right for guys like you to sit your as* on that computer and give your opinions you simply have no credibility.
A lot of military men and women have gone through the same or similar things and didn't piss on dead bodies. Consequently, while the actions described in the OP are understandable given the amount of mental stress these soldiers might have experienced (we don't even know what they've experienced), it doesn't excuse their behavior.The fact is you've probably never been in anywhere near as tough a position as these guys may have been or guys like them who have probably had to see several of there friends go home in little pieces or see little Afghan kids who they gave candy to the week before get there hand cut off because of it. .
"I have viewed an internet video that depicts Marines desecrating several dead Taliban in Afghanistan. I want to be clear and unambiguous, the behavior depicted in the video is wholly inconsistent with the high standards of conduct and warrior ethos that we have demonstrated throughout our history." - Gen. James Amos, Commandant of the Marine Corps
Honor: Honor requires each Marine to exemplify the ultimate standard in ethical and moral conduct. Honor is many things; honor requires many things. A U.S. Marine must never lie, never cheat, never steal, but that is not enough. Much more is required. Each Marine must cling to an uncompromising code of personal integrity, accountable for his actions and holding others accountable for theirs. And, above all, honor mandates that a Marine never sully the reputation of his Corps.
:lamo
Now that's funny right there. Marines steal everything that isn't nailed down and sometimes stuff that is nailed down but inadequately guarded. That's how we get gear.
We also lie all the time:
Colonel out "visiting the troops to buck up their morale": "Hey there devil-dog! How's it going"
Marine who hates everyone above the rank of Sergeant and who just spent his 6 hours of sleep time cleaning because the F'ing Colonel was coming: "Going fine, Sir."
We cheat all the time too - you think calling in air support in a small arms engagement is fair? Of course it's not - but screw those guys, they have it coming.
You seem to have fallen for the propaganda. The more accurate version is "A U.S. Marine Must Never Be Caught A) Lying to those who don't want the truth, B)Stealing from the other services, Or C) Cheating in a fight in such a way as to draw censure". The only thing that's fully accurate is the last - no Marine is allowed to sully the Corps by being caught - hence these guys will get what they have coming to them irregardless.
A lot of military men and women have gone through the same or similar things and didn't piss on dead bodies.