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U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

Enola said:
Would anyone be upset if that vid was of the Taliban pissing on dead marines? Would you (general you) "understand" the whys and wherefores but still think the Taliban should punish the men that did it? Or claim it's no worse than what they've done before?

Just curious.
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Why wouldn't people be upset?
 
Enola said:
Would anyone be upset if that vid was of the Taliban pissing on dead marines? Would you (general you) "understand" the whys and wherefores but still think the Taliban should punish the men that did it? Or claim it's no worse than what they've done before?

Just curious.
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I wouldn't expect anything from the Taliban. If anything, I'd think that'd be among the milder things they're capable of.
 
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Enola said:
Would anyone be upset if that vid was of the Taliban pissing on dead marines? Would you (general you) "understand" the whys and wherefores but still think the Taliban should punish the men that did it? Or claim it's no worse than what they've done before?

Just curious.
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The entire point of pissing on the Taliban was to show the disrespect for them.
 
Risky Thicket said:
Exactly and that's been my position all along. The whining public at home with their knickers in a twist puts pressure on Washington and then every veteran knows, "excreta rolls downhill." Three or four good Marines are going to be in a world of hurt and get a lot more punishment than they deserve because the folks back home want to believe in John Wayne and want to believe that the Marines are basically like Boy Scouts with guns. Whatever is handled will be directed from Washington, because to paraphrase Jack Nickelson "civilians can't handle the truth". As such civilians rarely get the truth. This whole thing is perfect example.

The peeing incident is out of context. Making a video was dumb, making good Marines the target of an "investigation" and ****ing over American warriors by causing Washington to be involved is even dumber.
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I've told this story more than once, others may have heard it. I once had a Marine recruiter say to me (a rough paraphrasing): "To civilians, the Marine Corps is like the beef patty in a Big Mac. Everyone loves to eat the Big Mac, nobody wants to see the cow slaughtered. Our job is thankless and your contributions for the most part will go unappreciated."

There is one way to rectify this, in my opinion: national service.
 
StillBallin75 said:
If that were the case I'd try to cut in line to be the first to shoot those mofos.
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I ask out if genuine curiosity, SB. Why would that make you want to shoot them, yet when acts of terrorism occur, you're more interested in "understanding" it?
 
X Factor said:
I ask out if genuine curiosity, SB. Why would that make you want to shoot them, yet when acts of terrorism occur, you're more interested in "understanding" it?
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The two aren't contradictory, nor are they mutually exclusive. Either way, I want to do defeat the enemy.

So from a macro perspective, to formulate the best strategy to defeat the enemy, one must first understand one's enemy. For our policymakers and military leaders, this involves understanding his motivations, understanding how he draws supporters to his cause, and why he is able to do so, among other factors.

On a micro/individual level, killing the enemy is one of the most effective ways for an individual to defeat his enemy, not to mention the purely emotional reaction one has to such an act as pissing on your dead fellow comrades.
 
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Ok, thanks for explaining. I have a more emotional response to terrorism than the thought of pissing on a corpse.
 
StillBallin75 said:
On a micro/individual level, killing the enemy is one of the most effective ways for an individual to defeat his enemy, not to mention the purely emotional reaction one has to such an act as pissing on your dead fellow comrades.
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...or walking single file with your fellow American soldiers across the desert and suddenly one of them falls down dead. Yeah, snipers. One of your good friends just went bye-bye.

Perhaps with their emotional feelings, these American soldiers who peed on the repulsive Taliban are justified.
 
Wake said:
...or walking single file with your fellow American soldiers across the desert and suddenly one of them falls down dead. Yeah, snipers. One of your good friends just went bye-bye.

Perhaps with their emotional feelings, these American soldiers who peed on the repulsive Taliban are justified.
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I agree with you about the emotional part. The feelings are understandable, and justified. The actions, on the other hand are understandable, but not justified under the Corps core values and code of honor.

And uploading the vids onto YouTube is just stupid.
 
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StillBallin75 said:
I've told this story more than once, others may have heard it. I once had a Marine recruiter say to me (a rough paraphrasing): "To civilians, the Marine Corps is like the beef patty in a Big Mac. Everyone loves to eat the Big Mac, nobody wants to see the cow slaughtered. Our job is thankless and your contributions for the most part will go unappreciated."

There is one way to rectify this, in my opinion: national service.
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Exactly, SB. We don't know, but it could be that in AO they've had a real problem getting local support to identify Taliban. No one likes the Taliban but if you're living in a village and you can help the Americans you might be taking a big risk. So you say nothing. Marines may be in the village making it safe during the day, but the Taliban may rule the village at night. The villagers are in between both groups and they are afraid to get involved and to help either side. Who knows maybe intelligence has determined that the villages in the AO are being told by the Taliban that Marines are ******s and cannot be trusted, that Marines are afraid of the Taliban. That Marines won't fight like real men because they are afraid. (The real reason may well be that the Marines are being held back by stupid assed directives that come from the civilians in Washington. But in the village it may look as if the Taliban is correct about Marines being afraid of the Taliban.) Village leaders aren't looking for some pansy assed "standards of conduct" imposed on Marines by the clueless American public who have this notion of Americans fighting fair and being nice to everyone whenever they can. Perhaps what the village leaders need to see is ruthless and staggering violence by Marines with a good measure of disrespect added for effect. That could easily be the case or something like it.
 
Wake said:
...or walking single file with your fellow American soldiers across the desert and suddenly one of them falls down dead. Yeah, snipers. One of your good friends just went bye-bye.

Perhaps with their emotional feelings, these American soldiers who peed on the repulsive Taliban are justified.
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Being open about being gay = not justified.

Pissing on corpses = justified.

You conservative people are funny.
 
Risky Thicket said:
Exactly, SB. We don't know, but it could be that in AO they've had a real problem getting local support to identify Taliban. No one likes the Taliban but if you're living in a village and you can help the Americans you might be taking a big risk. So you say nothing. Marines may be in the village making it safe during the day, but the Taliban may rule the village at night. The villagers are in between both groups and they are afraid to get involved and to help either side. Who knows maybe intelligence has determined that the villages in the AO are being told by the Taliban that Marines are ******s and cannot be trusted, that Marines are afraid of the Taliban. That Marines won't fight like real men because they are afraid. (The real reason may well be that the Marines are being held back by stupid assed directives that come from the civilians in Washington. But in the village it may look as if the Taliban is correct about Marines being afraid of the Taliban.) Village leaders aren't looking for some pansy assed "standards of conduct" imposed on Marines by the clueless American public who have this notion of Americans fighting fair and being nice to everyone whenever they can. Perhaps what the village leaders need to see is ruthless and staggering violence by Marines with a good measure of disrespect added for effect. That could easily be the case or something like it.
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I would be entirely okay with this way of warfighting if:

1) It is indeed effective and

2) politics and public opinion were on board with it.

The thing is, every effective military strategy has to take politics into account. If one is unable to develop an effective strategy in this manner, then perhaps the need to go to war itself needs to be re-evaluated, in my opinion. We've seen the consequences of what happens when policymakers seem to think that they can unleash the military to do God-knows-what and expect the public to just go along with it and not hold the executive accountable. There's two sides to every coin, and whether military/political leaders like it or not, you cannot go to war without taking into account the role public opinion will play in the range of your policy options.
 
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1. Peeing on dead people accomplishes nothing useful and only serves for emotional satisfaction. Soldiers should be professionals and not act like this.
2. Its frickin stupid, because it can (and has been used for propaganda against US interests). Those soldiers just harmed the war effort with their child like behaviors.

I hope they are tried because of the harm they caused against the thing they were supposed to be fighting for.
 
megaprogman said:
1. Peeing on dead people accomplishes nothing useful and only serves for emotional satisfaction. Soldiers should be professionals and not act like this.
2. Its frickin stupid, because it can (and has been used for propaganda against US interests). Those soldiers just harmed the war effort with their child like behaviors.

I hope they are tried because of the harm they caused against the thing they were supposed to be fighting for.
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Caused harm? How much? To whom? The big question is what specifically is the mission in Afghanistan? What are they fighting for?
 
Karzai slams US desecration of bodies

"It has stirred up already strong anti-US sentiment in Afghanistan after more than a decade of war that has seen other cases of abuse.

Residents in Afghanistan's southern city of Kandahar as well as in the capital Kabul staged rallies on Thursday to slam the desecration of the corpses, saying the US marines committed crimes.

The demonstrators said, “Since they've committed such a crime, we don't want them anymore on our soil, we don't like foreign soldiers to be on our soil and they have to leave.”

On January 7, Afghan officials stated that inmates in the US-run Bagram prison in Afghanistan's eastern province of Parwan have faced abuses including torture, beatings and other mistreatment.

Chairman of Afghanistan's Constitutional Oversight Commission said that prisoners in what is sometimes called the “Afghan Guantanamo” complained of being held in prison long after they were acquitted or their prison term had finished.

The video also comes to light as Afghan leaders ratchet up pressure on the United States to hand over security and law enforcement duties more quickly to the country's forces.

The US-led invasion of Afghanistan took place in 2001 under the pretext of combating terrorism, toppling the Taliban regime and establishing security in the country.

However, insecurity continues to rise across Afghanistan despite the presence of foreign forces in the country."

PressTV - Karzai slams US desecration of bodies
 
CriticalThought said:
Being open about being gay = not justified.

Pissing on corpses = justified.

You conservative people are funny.
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How many 'liberals' (since for some reason you want to tard it up with the political thing though Bubba and several others here are very much liberal and dont feel the way you do) play Battlefield, Modern Warfare, and drool over the prospect of killing people...on video games. Who was it here that said they went so far as to 'Tea bag' an enemy they killed?

Yeah...good thing those types dont take their bloodlust to the actual battlefield, huh?
 
It would appear that, if they can identify these men, they're toast. They will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Catawba's post should remind us all of unintended consequences...although if it means our guys come home tomorrow, then we owe these guys a thank-you along with their probable prison sentences. It's really a shame...but the news media all over the world has now picked up "it violates the Geneva Convention against desecrating dead bodies" and calling it war crimes. Our military is probably in an untenable position here.

I wonder, though. Are soldiers impressed with the seriousness of such offenses? That they will go to prison? Be prosecuted vigorously? Or is it glossed over as they focus on teaching our guys to fight so they can maybe stay alive?

I feel sorry for those soldiers. I really do.

It's also occurred to me that the soldier who took the video is probably not the one who posted it up. He'd have to be a complete fool. But he undoubtedly was foolish enough to email it to some "friends."
 
Catawba said:
Karzai slams US desecration of bodies

"It has stirred up already strong anti-US sentiment in Afghanistan after more than a decade of war that has seen other cases of abuse.

Residents in Afghanistan's southern city of Kandahar as well as in the capital Kabul staged rallies on Thursday to slam the desecration of the corpses, saying the US marines committed crimes.

The demonstrators said, “Since they've committed such a crime, we don't want them anymore on our soil, we don't like foreign soldiers to be on our soil and they have to leave.”

On January 7, Afghan officials stated that inmates in the US-run Bagram prison in Afghanistan's eastern province of Parwan have faced abuses including torture, beatings and other mistreatment.

Chairman of Afghanistan's Constitutional Oversight Commission said that prisoners in what is sometimes called the “Afghan Guantanamo” complained of being held in prison long after they were acquitted or their prison term had finished.

The video also comes to light as Afghan leaders ratchet up pressure on the United States to hand over security and law enforcement duties more quickly to the country's forces.

The US-led invasion of Afghanistan took place in 2001 under the pretext of combating terrorism, toppling the Taliban regime and establishing security in the country.

However, insecurity continues to rise across Afghanistan despite the presence of foreign forces in the country."

PressTV - Karzai slams US desecration of bodies
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I should care what their opinions are....why?

Maybe this will piss them off and they will ask us to leave their pos country. That then, would be a good outcome to this incident.
 
MaggieD said:
It would appear that, if they can identify these men, they're toast. They will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Catawba's post should remind us all of unintended consequences...although if it means our guys come home tomorrow, then we owe these guys a thank-you along with their probable prison sentences. It's really a shame...but the news media all over the world has now picked up "it violates the Geneva Convention against desecrating dead bodies" and calling it war crimes. Our military is probably in an untenable position here.

I wonder, though. Are soldiers impressed with the seriousness of such offenses? That they will go to prison? Be prosecuted vigorously? Or is it glossed over as they focus on teaching our guys to fight so they can maybe stay alive?

I feel sorry for those soldiers. I really do.

It's also occurred to me that the soldier who took the video is probably not the one who posted it up. He'd have to be a complete fool. But he undoubtedly was foolish enough to email it to some "friends."
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look, they acted stupidly. not only did they desecrate the corpses, they FILMED it. that's hardly a spur of the moment stress reliever, is it? that said, they shouldn't receive prison sentences for this. but they embarrassed themselves, their country and their fellow marines by their actions.
 
liblady said:
look, they acted stupidly. not only did they desecrate the corpses, they FILMED it. that's hardly a spur of the moment stress reliever, is it? that said, they shouldn't receive prison sentences for this. but they embarrassed themselves, their country and their fellow marines by their actions.
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Now that I can agree with.
 
StillBallin75 said:
So from a macro perspective, to formulate the best strategy to defeat the enemy, one must first understand one's enemy. For our policymakers and military leaders, this involves understanding his motivations, understanding how he draws supporters to his cause, and why he is able to do so, among other factors.
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I wish people would get this more. Oftentimes, when a person uses the word "understanding" when referring to anyone but American soldiers, all hell breaks loose.
 
a777pilot said:
I should care what their opinions are....why?

Maybe this will piss them off and they will ask us to leave their pos country. That then, would be a good outcome to this incident.
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Why are we there, if we don't care what Afghans think? They've already said they would side with Pakistan in a fight with the US, how many hints do you need???
 
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