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Atheist messages displace CA park nativity scenes

misterman said:
So they got 14 slots, and everyone else got 7? That's not fair. That's why there was a lottery, apparently. And they lost. They should deal with that and stop whining. They had the dominant spot, with twice the slots as everyone else combined, and now they don't.
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They got 14 slots because no one else ever really applied for any of the slots. The OP article was quite clear on this.

The Santa Monica Daily Press (Santa Monica nativity scenes displaced by atheist messages ) reported that churches had little or no competition for the spaces during the past 57 years. This year, 13 people bid for spaces, prompting City Hall to use a random lottery system to allot the spots.
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You're trying make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Edit to add: The churches very well could have applied to use ALL the slots...now that would have been crowding.

misterman said:
Like I said before, this whole affair just reveals how dumb and pointless it is to seek an official "slot" to put up your little display in the first place. Just put it in your front yard or church or a park where there is plenty of room for everyone, instead of a place where it gets into "respecting an establishment of religion" territory.
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Dumb and pointless to you.
 
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Kal'Stang said:
They got 14 slots because no one else ever really applied for any of the slots. The OP article was quite clear on this.
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Okay. So why the lottery system?

Dumb and pointless to you.
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Yes, because it's an attempt to compromise when none is possible.
 
Zyphlin said:
A nativity scene doens't do that. At worst its a positive assertion regarding ones own faith or belief. Blatantly placing a picture of Jesus next to Minitaurs and Posiden is a negative assertion towards someone elses faith or belief.
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And the last laugh goes to the big man because Posiden and Minotaurs actually exsisted at one point. :D (that would be funny)
 
Thorgasm said:
People looking for something to be offended by will find it every time. How do you know that they weren't trying to educate people about hypothetical constructs?
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Right now in the video game in playing online there is a forumn movement to try to ban people for saying "GG noobs". People will get offended by ANYTHING if you look long enough.
 
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dirtpoorchris said:
Right now in the video game in playing online there is a forumn movement to try to ban people for saying "GG noobs". People will get offended by ANYTHING if you look long enough.
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You've got to be kidding me.....What game is this?
 
Kal'Stang said:
You've got to be kidding me.....What game is this?
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League of Legends. Tons of keyboard warrior, Lords of the InterFlies (kids), neckbeards, pansies, hotshots all mixed and forced to play in a 10 player battle/contest.
 
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Kal'Stang said:
Same here. I use to work in a Casino and my wife still does. Neither one of us ever saw/heard of anyone getting called 9 times in a single drawing (they have weekly drawings...half the time more than 1 drawing in a day). And my wife has worked there for 12 years almost.
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Well the odds may...just may be a bit different between the two cases. It is rather suspect that 2 groups won 18, very well could have been rigged. Very well could have been a statistical anomaly. We don't really have data one way or the other on that.
 
digsbe said:
Because their goal was to displace a nativity scene. Their goal was to overshadow someone else's traditional display and interject their own. This was hardly some innocent educational ploy.
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It's not so innocent. It's pretty much exactly what the Christians did to the Pagans when they began usurping their holidays. Hahahahah, damned history!
 
Kal'Stang said:
Edit to add: The churches very well could have applied to use ALL the slots...now that would have been crowding.
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So you're saying the atheists here are not crowding because they did not apply to use ALL the slots.
 
Kal'Stang said:
:shock: At least read the full quote from the article that I gave. It tells you why....or am I misunderstanding you?
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I did read it.

Because more people wanted slots, they used a lottery. And some churches who were used to having the slots all to themselves suddenly couldn't.

They weren't entitled to those slots in the first place. They were just lucky nobody wanted theirs. Now that somebody did, they lose. Too bad.

Riiiigghhhttt....
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Brilliant rebuttal.

The lottery was an attempt to compromise. Not everyone is happy, are they?

Either they have to give a slot to anyone who requests one, expanding them to whatever number is necessary, or they need to stop giving them out at all. But maybe a lottery will work if the losers stop whining when they lose.
 
Ikari said:
So you're saying the atheists here are not crowding because they did not apply to use ALL the slots.
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By the rules of the newly implemented lottery they could not have applied for all of the slots. I would bet that if they could have applied for all the slots they would have. This is evidenced by the fact that they did apply for the maximum number of slots that they could get, got em, and then only used 3 of the 18 slots that they got.

The point I was trying to make is that before all this the religious groups could have applied for all the slots. The fact that they voluntarily did not shows that they were not trying to crowd out anyone.
 
misterman said:
I did read it.

Because more people wanted slots, they used a lottery. And some churches who were used to having the slots all to themselves suddenly couldn't.

They weren't entitled to those slots in the first place. They were just lucky nobody wanted theirs. Now that somebody did, they lose. Too bad.
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So, are you willing to admit that the churches never tried to crowd anyone out in the first place?

misterman said:
The lottery was an attempt to compromise. Not everyone is happy, are they?
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Either you are ignoring the reason for not everyone being happy or you're trying to gloss over it. I doubt very seriously the the religious groups would have said anything had those two people not set out to purposely crowd out and attack religion.
 
Kal'Stang said:
I doubt very seriously the the religious groups would have said anything had those two people not set out to purposely crowd out and attack religion.
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As if religious groups don't crowd out and attack atheists, or other religions.

Look, I wouldn't be dickish like these guys if I had the opportunity. But I don't much blame them for it.
 
misterman said:
As if religious groups don't crowd out and attack atheists, or other religions.
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Bring up an example and I'll condemn it. Two wrongs don't make a right.

misterman said:
Look, I wouldn't be dickish like these guys if I had the opportunity. But I don't much blame them for it.
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But you will apparently try to defend it.
 
This whole fuss is just the bitterness of entitlement denied.
 
Kal'Stang said:
By the rules of the newly implemented lottery they could not have applied for all of the slots. I would bet that if they could have applied for all the slots they would have. This is evidenced by the fact that they did apply for the maximum number of slots that they could get, got em, and then only used 3 of the 18 slots that they got.
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They could have if they had gotten one more person.

Kal'Stang said:
The point I was trying to make is that before all this the religious groups could have applied for all the slots. The fact that they voluntarily did not shows that they were not trying to crowd out anyone.
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Up to 9 per individuals, which is rather large I suppose. 24 slots. 9*3=27, which is greater than 24. So had they really wanted to apply for "all" slots, they could have. But didn't.
 
Ikari said:
They could have if they had gotten one more person.



Up to 9 per individuals, which is rather large I suppose. 24 slots. 9*3=27, which is greater than 24. So had they really wanted to apply for "all" slots, they could have. But didn't.
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But they didn't have 1 more person. We can only deal with the numbers that we have. Not on what they could have gotten if they had just one more person. The reason that they didn't have one more person could have been simply that they didn't have anyone else that would go along with them. And yes...it might have been that they didn't want to get all the slots. We don't know. So bringing in possibility that they could have brought in more people is just clouding up the issue.
 
Kal'Stang said:
But they didn't have 1 more person. We can only deal with the numbers that we have. Not on what they could have gotten if they had just one more person. The reason that they didn't have one more person could have been simply that they didn't have anyone else that would go along with them. And yes...it might have been that they didn't want to get all the slots. We don't know. So bringing in possibility that they could have brought in more people is just clouding up the issue.
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The Christian group may not have even realized that the other groups would snap up "waste" lots to be spiteful, so it would follow they were trying to keep things honest and got "ambushed".
 
Ikari said:
Well the odds may...just may be a bit different between the two cases. It is rather suspect that 2 groups won 18, very well could have been rigged. Very well could have been a statistical anomaly. We don't really have data one way or the other on that.
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Maybe god made them win so they would show how foolish they are.
 
Kal'Stang said:
But they didn't have 1 more person. We can only deal with the numbers that we have. Not on what they could have gotten if they had just one more person. The reason that they didn't have one more person could have been simply that they didn't have anyone else that would go along with them. And yes...it might have been that they didn't want to get all the slots. We don't know. So bringing in possibility that they could have brought in more people is just clouding up the issue.
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They could have found one more person. I think what you're trying to do is claim that the over abundance of theist displays could not be "crowding", even though it was and trying desperately to paint this move as something different than before. Had they really wanted to "crowd" out theists, they could have easily gotten another person.
 
Ikari said:
They could have found one more person. I think what you're trying to do is claim that the over abundance of theist displays could not be "crowding", even though it was and trying desperately to paint this move as something different than before. Had they really wanted to "crowd" out theists, they could have easily gotten another person.
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All that you're doing is conjecturing. We have no idea why they didn't bring in another person. We do know what they did have and what the other side had before and after the athiest group came in.
 
Kal'Stang said:
All that you're doing is conjecturing. We have no idea why they didn't bring in another person. We do know what they did have and what the other side had before and after the athiest group came in.
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So once again we are back to being upset at competition.
 
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