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Atheist messages displace CA park nativity scenes

ReverendHellh0und said:
It was a chance to show themselves different than thier stated enemy. :shrug:
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They have not stated any one was their enemy.

Edit: oh, and remember: I before E except after C or in the word "their".
 
Redress said:
From the article:

They got upset that there is competition for public space. Boo ****ing hoo.
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From the article:

"Our belief is that these new applicants have been working together to displace and push out the nativity scenes from the park, rather than erecting a full display of their own," said Hunter Jameson, a spokesman for a coalition of the city's churches.
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The line you point to seems to suggest they're upset that people are applying SPECIFICALLY to displace nativity scenes rather than to erect their own display. IE, that the people aren't "competing" to put up their own stuff...but rather their entering it simply to STOP someone else from putting something up and then just leaving their own blank. Seems like someone suggested that could be a reason they were complaining:

Zyphlin said:
- They could be complaining that people entered into the lottery to get spots with the explicite purpose to PREVENT people from putting ANYTHING up rather than to put up their own things as evidenced by 15 of the 18 spots being simply left vacant
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Nope, based on the comment you point out I 100% disagree that the people who put up the nativity scenes are the same level of dickishness as the athiest groups in this case. The quote you posted clearly shows their issue isn't that someone is competing to put up stuff, its that people are competing specifically with the intent and purpose to stop them from putting something up with no intent or desire to put anything up of their own. And you know what, I agree with them. I'd be complaining to, because that's a ****ing dick move. If you want to get the spot and put up a display and participate in what the purpose of those spots are there for...go right ahead! More power to you and if it makes me have less space, no problem. But don't participate for no other reason than to try and make me get less with having no intent what so ever to use it yourself, essentially just squating on it to thumb your nose at me.

That's dickish. Being annoyed by that is not dickish.
 
I think it's pretty obvious that if these people don't use all of the spaces then they are being dicks. I think they should use up the ones they want and give the rest to whatever churches want to use them. It's not their fault that they just so happened to get all the spaces they applied for but if they weren't planning on using them then they should give them back.
 
roughdraft274 said:
I think it's pretty obvious that if these people don't use all of the spaces then they are being dicks. I think they should use up the ones they want and give the rest to whatever churches want to use them. It's not their fault that they just so happened to get all the spaces they applied for but if they weren't planning on using them then they should give them back.
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Even if they don't give it to the churchs, give it back to have another lottery. Or hell give it to local organizations of their choice to put up decorations. Just don't sit there squatting in them doing nothing.
 
Wake said:
If I'm correct, there's 21 displays up for lottery. Traditionally churches have claimed 14 of the 21, but now atheists have claimed 18 out of 21. Something may be afoot. I can't say with certainty.
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You didn't seem to think "something was afoot" when the churches won 14 of the 21.
 
misterman said:
You didn't seem to think "something was afoot" when the churches won 14 of the 21.
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They didn't use a lottery system then. From the article it is easy to show that last year and the years preceeding they probably did a first come first serve basis.

But atheists got all but three of the spaces this year because of a new lottery system. The coalition got two spots to display Jesus, Mary and the wise men. The third went to Isaac Levitansky of Chabad Channukah Menorah.
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In the previous years there were 14 different people/groups applying for the slots and getting just 14 slots. IE 1 slot per person/group. And they used them all, not just part of them. And they did not use those slots to attack anyone else. These 2 people/groups got 18 slots, are not useing even a quarter of them and are attacking religion.

See the difference?
 
Kal'Stang said:
They didn't use a lottery system then. From the article it is easy to show that last year and the years preceeding they probably did a first come first serve basis.
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In that case, 14 out of 21 is even worse! It's unfair.

In the previous years there were 14 different people/groups applying for the slots and getting just 14 slots. IE 1 slot per person/group. And they used them all, not just part of them.
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So? This is religion. People can say or believe whatever they want, including nothing.

And they did not use those slots to attack anyone else. These 2 people/groups got 18 slots, are not useing even a quarter of them and are attacking religion.
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Again, so? You don't like someone else's religious message. Deal with it. There are absolutely no rules when it comes to religion. You can believe whatever you want and say whatever you want.

Eventually, perhaps you'll realize that we solved this problem a few centuries ago with the First Amendment. We just let people do or say whatever they want about religion, and leave the government or any official slots for special religious recognition out of it.
 
misterman said:
That's true. The problem comes when other religions are excluded though. Hence the lottery solution.

It's weird that you see setting up a Christian display as innocent, yet setting up a different one is "oppression." Wouldn't that make a Christian display "oppression" to non-Christians?
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Other religions don't celebrate Christmas, so why should they be represented in a Nativity scene? By your logic a Nativity scene should be present in a display for Hannuka.
 
misterman said:
In that case, 14 out of 21 is even worse! It's unfair.
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Huh? 14 different groups/people: 21 slots - 14 slots = 7 slots left for anyone else that wants to use them. 2 people: 21 slots - 18 slots = 3 slots left for anyone else that wants to use them. My math may be off (not!) but I don't see how 14 out of 21 is "even worse" when compared to what happened.

misterman said:
So? This is religion. People can say or believe whatever they want, including nothing.
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I thought that atheism wasn't a religion? Not that it matters. You are correct that they can say or do what they want, including nothing. But doing what these 2 people/groups did was obviously them being dicks and anyone, no matter thier personal view regarding atheism/religion, would acknowledge that fact.

misterman said:
Again, so? You don't like someone else's religious message. Deal with it. There are absolutely no rules when it comes to religion. You can believe whatever you want and say whatever you want.
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So, in your mind its perfectly OK to attack and crowd out someone else's message just because you hate them?

misterman said:
Eventually, perhaps you'll realize that we solved this problem a few centuries ago with the First Amendment. We just let people do or say whatever they want about religion, and leave the government or any official slots for special religious recognition out of it.
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What you don't seem to understand is that no one here in this forum is attempting to deny anyones 1st amendment rights. What we are condemning is how these two people/groups are going about using thier 1st amendment rights. In my mind these 2 groups/people are acting no different than the Westboro Baptist Church's people. Their acts are dispicable, but they have a right to thier message. If you condemn what the WBC does then at least try to be consistant and condemn what these 2 people/groups did.
 
Kal'Stang said:
I thought that atheism wasn't a religion? Not that it matters. You are correct that they can say or do what they want, including nothing. But doing what these 2 people/groups did was obviously them being dicks and anyone, no matter thier personal view regarding atheism/religion, would acknowledge that fact.
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They have a right to be dicks if they want to. It's not going to win them any friends or convert anyone to their way of thinking, but freedom of speech does include the right to be a dick.

Some of our current candidates for office are exercising that right, too, but that's an aside.
 
Dittohead not! said:
They have a right to be dicks if they want to. It's not going to win them any friends or convert anyone to their way of thinking, but freedom of speech does include the right to be a dick.

Some of our current candidates for office are exercising that right, too, but that's an aside.
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Did you read my whole post?
 
Redress said:
It is the same thing, it is speech about your particular belief.
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Except the Athiest display is not really a belief. It is mocking and belittling someone else's belief.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Huh? 14 different groups/people: 21 slots - 14 slots = 7 slots left for anyone else that wants to use them. 2 people: 21 slots - 18 slots = 3 slots left for anyone else that wants to use them. My math may be off (not!) but I don't see how 14 out of 21 is "even worse" when compared to what happened.
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I just meant it was even fishier.

I thought that atheism wasn't a religion? Not that it matters. You are correct that they can say or do what they want, including nothing. But doing what these 2 people/groups did was obviously them being dicks and anyone, no matter thier personal view regarding atheism/religion, would acknowledge that fact.
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Sure, whatever. Sometimes atheists are dicks, sometimes religious people are dicks.

So, in your mind its perfectly OK to attack and crowd out someone else's message just because you hate them?
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No, it's not nice. Yes, it's legally okay, but that's not what you're asking. But don't you think it's also dickish to put up your religious display at a public building, as if it were an official one endorsed by the government, and then exclude all others?
 
bicycleman said:
Other religions don't celebrate Christmas, so why should they be represented in a Nativity scene? By your logic a Nativity scene should be present in a display for Hannuka.
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Huh? I didn't say that.

Other religions may want to set up some kind of symbol. You have to either let them all do it, or none.
 
jambalaya said:
Except the Athiest display is not really a belief. It is mocking and belittling someone else's belief.
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Are college courses in Greek or Norse mythology mocking and belittling?
 
Thorgasm said:
Are college courses in Greek or Norse mythology mocking and belittling?
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Interesting question.

Is calling it "mythology" belittling to the believers? Would a course in Christian mythology be seen as belittling?
 
Further indication that Atheism should be outlawed.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Interesting question.

Is calling it "mythology" belittling to the believers? Would a course in Christian mythology be seen as belittling?
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That's the thing. Since people don't believe in Greek or Norse mythology anymore no one gives it a second thought. But if someone so much as suggests that the popular religions are a myth and people become offended and outraged. That's all that really happened here. They called Christianity a myth. How dare they disagree publicly! Basically, it's offensive to not validate others' belief systems or at least stay silent about dissent with them.
 
Wake said:
Sorry, but that one's out of the ballpark.

As in bat**** crazy.
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Many regimes have outlawed religion, it's time we became proactive with these pesky atheists. Professed atheists should be jailed for society's protection, or better yet stripped of their citizenship and sent to China where they work along side other ChiComm atheists for $.75 a day and 2 bowls of rice. Let them experience Maoism and Marxism first hand, let them experience regimes that are hostile to religion.

America was bulit on the backs of the Religious it's time these atheists shape up or ship out. Get with the program or enjoy your 3 hots and a cot rotting in an 8 x 10 jail cell till you shape up.

Same with the Communists, outlaw them, much like Germany has outlawed Nazism, we need to be proactive here in America and start getting rid of the rats. Communism and Atheism go hand in hand.
 
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C-21 Cowboy said:
Many regimes have outlawed religion, it's time we became proactive with these pesky atheists. Professed atheists should be jailed for society's protection, or better yet stripped of their citizenship and sent to China where they work along side other ChiComm atheists for $.75 a day and 2 bowls of rice
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Oh ok, so you were just joking, I see.

You had better not be serious.
 
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