GOP gets ready to say 'yes'

lpast · Dec 2, 2011

Ive posted a few threads on inner turmoil in the gop between the moderate traditionals and the far right...I posted about Cantor ready to compromise and now this...a much bigger compromise with boehner agreeing.
I believe there is pressure being put on the GOP leadership about the far right stonewalling from the majority of house members...

The narrative over the past 11 months is that House Republicans are the party of no: “no” to President Barack Obama, “no” to congressional Democrats and “no” to their own leaders.
But an amazing thing is about to happen at the close of one of the most politically contentious years in recent history: Republican leadership is about to say yes to Democrats. Yes to unemployment benefits, yes to Obama’s payroll tax holiday and yes on passing an unwieldy pile of year-end spending bills.

It’s surprising on several levels. Republicans have voiced measured opposition to the payroll tax holiday. Many conservatives don’t believe long-term unemployment benefits encourage people to go back to work and nearly all of them think the current system is broken. Republicans also came into office vowing not to fund the government using massive omnibus bills.

GOP gets ready to say 'yes' - Jake Sherman - POLITICO.com

liblady · Dec 2, 2011

i have had a slight change of heart on unemployment benefits. i believe that after a year, they should be halved, and at 2 years, they should end.

mike2810 · Dec 2, 2011

Here is a good question that was in your post article that I will reword to include all elected officials: why should politicians undermine Social Security by cutting the tax that funds it?. If the current tax rate for SS, before the break, was needed to ensure its continued existence. Why would we continue to pay at a lower rate. How do people(taxpayers) want the shortfall in the future made up for SS?

Too many people want govt. services/benefits yet do not want to pay for them or have someone else pay for them.

Tigger · Dec 2, 2011

mike2810 said:
Too many people want govt. services/benefits yet do not want to pay for them or have someone else pay for them.

Even more of us would be more than happy to OPT OUT of ever taking those services/benefits in the future if we could stop having to pay for them now.

mike2810 · Dec 2, 2011

Tigger said:
Even more of us would be more than happy to OPT OUT of ever taking those services/benefits in the future if we could stop having to pay for them now.

I can't disagree. My concern is too many today would say let me opt out, and 20 years from now say I am broke, the govt needs to help me. Your idea would work if people would really be accountable for their own actions. Many do not want to be.

Tigger · Dec 2, 2011

mike2810 said:
I can't disagree. My concern is too many today would say let me opt out, and 20 years from now say I am broke, the govt needs to help me. Your idea would work if people would really be accountable for their own actions. Many do not want to be.

The way the documents should be worked is simple..... You legally sign away all rights to any future SS/Medicare aid in return for not paying the taxes now. Very simple. It would be required to be notarized

cpwill · Dec 2, 2011

mike2810 said:
I can't disagree. My concern is too many today would say let me opt out, and 20 years from now say I am broke, the govt needs to help me. Your idea would work if people would really be accountable for their own actions. Many do not want to be.

hence the Cpwill Social Security Fix - which only lets you opt out in a way that assures your responsibility.

cpwill · Dec 2, 2011

liblady said:
i have had a slight change of heart on unemployment benefits. i believe that after a year, they should be halved, and at 2 years, they should end.

I am kicking myself for never having thought of a timelined reduction in payouts. I'm going to steal that idea.

cpwill · Dec 2, 2011

lpast said:
I believe there is pressure being put on the GOP leadership about the far right stonewalling from the majority of house members..

.... then I would have to ask where you see this coming from. Most Republicans are generally okay with how the House Leadership has held up since the spring debacle.

The narrative over the past 11 months is that House Republicans are the party of no: “no” to President Barack Obama, “no” to congressional Democrats and “no” to their own leaders.

the problem being, of course, that that narrative is a lie.

Republicans were willing to start with the Bowles Simpson Commission. Democrats said "no".
The House has passed a budget which would have saved us from a downgrade. The Senate said "no".
The House has passed no less than 20 jobs bills to which the Senate said "no".
House Republicans have offered no less than three major compromises which would have included net effective tax rate increases, to which Obama and the Senate have said "no.

in fact, there is only one thing Republicans have said "no" consistently to over the past year - and that is the continued Democrat insistence on doing nothing without a minimum Trillion dollar tax hike.

But an amazing thing is about to happen at the close of one of the most politically contentious years in recent history: Republican leadership is about to say yes to Democrats. Yes to unemployment benefits, yes to Obama’s payroll tax holiday and yes on passing an unwieldy pile of year-end spending bills.

which they propose to pay for by holding federal civilian employee wages flat for 5 years. going to be interesting to see how you spin it if democrats say "no" to that.

liblady · Dec 2, 2011

cpwill said:
I am kicking myself for never having thought of a timelined reduction in payouts. I'm going to steal that idea.

i actually just thought of it....wonder why it's never been mentioned?

lpast · Dec 2, 2011

mike2810 said:
I can't disagree. My concern is too many today would say let me opt out, and 20 years from now say I am broke, the govt needs to help me. Your idea would work if people would really be accountable for their own actions. Many do not want to be.

That mike is a fantastic point to make...the people that whine about paying for SS now and medicare who say they dont want it or need it...need to remember theres no guarantees and theres thousands upon thousands of RICH bankruptcy lawyers for those that lost all their wealth...for whatever reasons.

lpast · Dec 2, 2011

liblady said:
i have had a slight change of heart on unemployment benefits. i believe that after a year, they should be halved, and at 2 years, they should end.

Liblady ive always had concerns about unemployment being extended indefinitely...the problem is there is no doubt people that dont look for work because they are getting the check...but on the other hand theres families with kids that have one spouse working that just doesnt make enough to near float the ship...and another that cant find work...Its a tough one for me.

lpast · Dec 2, 2011

cpwill said:
.... then I would have to ask where you see this coming from. Most Republicans are generally okay with how the House Leadership has held up since the spring debacle.

the problem being, of course, that that narrative is a lie.

Republicans were willing to start with the Bowles Simpson Commission. Democrats said "no".
The House has passed a budget which would have saved us from a downgrade. The Senate said "no".
The House has passed no less than 20 jobs bills to which the Senate said "no".
House Republicans have offered no less than three major compromises which would have included net effective tax rate increases, to which Obama and the Senate have said "no.

in fact, there is only one thing Republicans have said "no" consistently to over the past year - and that is the continued Democrat insistence on doing nothing without a minimum Trillion dollar tax hike.

which they propose to pay for by holding federal civilian employee wages flat for 5 years. going to be interesting to see how you spin it if democrats say "no" to that.

I disagree most republicans are not ok with the stonewalling by the teaparty....

The bigger story here is that the moderates are pushing the leadership to stop the stonewalling...this decision was not made by boehner an cantor they were pushed into it...there was even talk about leadership challenges....
Rep Tunney <R> is writing a compromise bill with Claire McCaskill D that they are confident they can get support for...there are other GOP congressman coming out publically and indicating their willingness to compromise and their realization its necessary.
I believe compromise is precisely what we need to start getting out of this mess...the teaparty pledges and No taxs never and all the other crap is just that...and the same with the other side....
If most of the GOP wanted the stonewalling...there would be these indications of compromise...

liblady · Dec 2, 2011

lpast said:
Liblady ive always had concerns about unemployment being extended indefinitely...the problem is there is no doubt people that dont look for work because they are getting the check...but on the other hand theres families with kids that have one spouse working that just doesnt make enough to near float the ship...and another that cant find work...Its a tough one for me.

when all is said and done, some people will have to reduce their standard of living, at least for awhile. there is work out there, just not great wages in a lot of cases. you do what you can. i have no probelm with soeone trying to hold out for a better job (for a reasonable period) , but i am a little tired of hearing that there are NO jobs. if we reduced benefits at a year, more people WOULD find work.

lpast · Dec 2, 2011

liblady said:
when all is said and done, some people will have to reduce their standard of living, at least for awhile. there is work out there, just not great wages in a lot of cases. you do what you can. i have no probelm with soeone trying to hold out for a better job (for a reasonable period) , but i am a little tired of hearing that there are NO jobs. if we reduced benefits at a year, more people WOULD find work.

Umm people that are on unemployment are living a reduced standard of living...keep in mind...everyone doesnt get maximum benefits most do not get the maximum...no one gets what they were making before layoff...

liblady · Dec 2, 2011

lpast said:
Umm people that are on unemployment are living a reduced standard of living...keep in mind...everyone doesnt get maximum benefits most do not get the maximum...no one gets what they were making before layoff...

i understand that. i just think people need to face facts and get what jobs they can. i would rather see someone working for minimum wage than getting it from the taxpayers.

lpast · Dec 2, 2011

liblady said:
i understand that. i just think people need to face facts and get what jobs they can. i would rather see someone working for minimum wage than getting it from the taxpayers.

No doubt...I agree...its not a taxpayer provided job...its a ltemporary lifeline...but unemployment hasnt been this high or up so long in my lifetime

Kandahar · Dec 2, 2011

liblady said:
when all is said and done, some people will have to reduce their standard of living, at least for awhile. there is work out there, just not great wages in a lot of cases. you do what you can. i have no probelm with soeone trying to hold out for a better job (for a reasonable period) , but i am a little tired of hearing that there are NO jobs. if we reduced benefits at a year, more people WOULD find work.

There just aren't enough jobs to go around. The benefits-reduction idea would work fine in an economy that was already at full employment, where the only people out of work were the lazy folks who weren't looking very hard. But with unemployment near 9% that logic doesn't really apply, because the issue isn't that people aren't looking for work, it's that there isn't enough work available.

All taking away unemployment benefits will do is further impoverish those who are down on their luck, and reduce aggregate demand which will therefore make a double-dip recession more likely.

cpwill · Dec 2, 2011

lpast said:
No doubt...I agree...its not a taxpayer provided job...its a ltemporary lifeline...but unemployment hasnt been this high or up so long in my lifetime

well yeah. we haven't seen an extension of the amount of time we are willing to pay someone not to work to this limit in your lifetime, either.

wonder if the two are connected.

alabama farmers are desperate to hire... oddly, all those unemployed people seem to think farm labor is beneath them.

Simon W. Moon · Dec 2, 2011

cpwill said:
alabama farmers are desperate to hire... oddly, all those unemployed people seem to think farm labor is beneath them.

It may also be related to the logistics of moving families across the country to do some seasonal work.

conservativeguy · Dec 2, 2011

It's amazing how many folks here cheer the massive generational theft taking place in DC.....absolutely amazing.

lpast · Dec 2, 2011

conservativeguy said:
It's amazing how many folks here cheer the massive generational theft taking place in DC.....absolutely amazing.

I find it more amazing how many cheer corporations creating our greatest threat, making the fabulously rich at the expense of their fellow americans...china all out of greed.....I find it amazing how many people on here cheer the rape of the middleclass...so I guess you can say its mutual amazement

Kandahar · Dec 2, 2011

cpwill said:
well yeah. we haven't seen an extension of the amount of time we are willing to pay someone not to work to this limit in your lifetime, either.

wonder if the two are connected.

Yeah, they are connected in the sense that the high unemployment caused the unemployment benefit extension...not the other way around. It's not like it's commonplace in this economy for employers to be unable to find workers because everyone prefers to live off unemployment. There are far more workers willing to supply their labor than there are employers willing to demand it, so until we correct that imbalance, concerns about reducing the supply of labor (e.g. people who prefer to collect unemployment instead of finding work) should not be a very high priority.

cpwill said:
alabama farmers are desperate to hire... oddly, all those unemployed people seem to think farm labor is beneath them.

If that is the case, it's an exception to the rule. With high unemployment this is overwhelmingly an employer's market.

cpwill · Dec 3, 2011

Simon W. Moon said:
It may also be related to the logistics of moving families across the country to do some seasonal work.

no, there are plenty of unemployed in Alabama as well. Farmers report that Americans tend to show up late, do shoddy work, demand a raise, and then quit; sometimes all in the same day.

cpwill · Dec 3, 2011

Kandahar said:
Yeah, they are connected in the sense that the high unemployment caused the unemployment benefit extension...not the other way around. It's not like it's commonplace in this economy for employers to be unable to find workers because everyone prefers to live off unemployment. There are far more workers willing to supply their labor than there are employers willing to demand it, so until we correct that imbalance, concerns about reducing the supply of labor (e.g. people who prefer to collect unemployment instead of finding work) should not be a very high priority.

If that is the case, it's an exception to the rule. With high unemployment this is overwhelmingly an employer's market.

sadly you are incorrect - we have trained Americans to think that if they are working low-paying, difficult jobs they have somehow "lost", and unemployment benefits are often enough to make it not profitable.

but this is easy enough to test. Simply mandate E-Verify all across the nation, the illegals will flee, and then stop unemployment benefits for anyone who is A) healthy and B) under the age of 30. They will then move into the jobs that the illegals just fled, and start being productive again. We'll get the taxes from their labor, too, so it will help the deficit on both ends.

GOP gets ready to say 'yes'

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