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Major profitable corporations are paying negative income taxes.

danarhea

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Which means that, instead of paying money to the government, the government gives THEM money, despite the fact that they are more profitable than ever. This is Robin Hood in reverse - Steal from the poor and give to the rich.

There are welfare queens in America, and they are the super rich, who receive the lion's share of welfare payments. Dare to take the red pill, and read this report on Verizon. Whether you are Liberal, Conservative, or Libertarian, this report should make your blood boil. No, we are not being turned into batteries..... yet, but we are nevertheless beset by parasites, who are sucking our blood, with the help of Democrats and Republicans who don't give two ****s for We the People. It is time for a third party.

Article is here.
 
Which means that, instead of paying money to the government, the government gives THEM money, despite the fact that they are more profitable than ever. This is Robin Hood in reverse - Steal from the poor and give to the rich.

There are welfare queens in America, and they are the super rich, who receive the lion's share of welfare payments. Dare to take the red pill, and read this report on Verizon. Whether you are Liberal, Conservative, or Libertarian, this report should make your blood boil. No, we are not being turned into batteries..... yet, but we are nevertheless beset by parasites, who are sucking our blood, with the help of Democrats and Republicans who don't give two ****s for We the People. It is time for a third party.

Article is here.

Since the poor pay no income tax, it's hardly stealing from them. ;)

Seriously, I feel your pain. Makes a person wanna' puke.
 
when profitable corporations pay negative income tax, cuts have to come from somewhere. typically, it's programs designed to help people out of poverty. so yes, it IS stealing from the poor.
 
The first way to deal with this problem is the same for corporations and the general public.... STOP THE GOVERNMENT FROM SPENDING MONEY ON UNCONSTITUTIONAL PROGRAMS..... like Welfare (corporate or personal), Medicare, HUD, Education, Environment, etc.....
 
So let me get this straight. Verizon seeks to do what the 99% also do:

1. Pay as little tax, legally, as they can

Who exactly can give *all of us* any sort of tax break? Government. So what you have is an argument against government power....not verizon, not a corporations, not a profitable company, etc. Can be fixed with a flat(ter) tax by the way!

And it's interesting, listening to NPR this morning you have Obama and liberals proclaiming that government should subsidize the renewable energy industry (competing with private..thanks guys for cheating!). But that's exactly what state/local government do with verizon, they suibsidize them via tax breaks, because they want what verizon brings. Jobs and money. Why the title that piece "jobs first" or whatever, that's a crock of ****. They are subsidzed because those states want those jobs there, lol. Jobs first indeed!

Some liberals want the fantasy of competitive renewables. But even more people want jobs and income. If you're going give government that much power, you can't then pick and choose personally where you think it's best spent, because the PEOPLE are choosing. Those state/locals are elected representatives or appointed as such. You reap what you sow. Give government all that tax and spend power, give them the ability to pick and choose winners and losers, and don't come crying to me when you lose.

Limit government power like the libertarians suggest, and you'll go a long way to fixing that. It's about GOVERNMENT, not verizon.
 
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when profitable corporations pay negative income tax, cuts have to come from somewhere. typically, it's programs designed to help people out of poverty. so yes, it IS stealing from the poor.

What cuts? The government just continues to run a deficit, they don't cut anything unless forced, which is nearly impossible, hence our current debt mess.
 
wMoney is intangable...oh some will say it is tangable because you can see it and feel it, but hat is it really worth? it is worth what the country can put behind it in sweat and labor. I would love to see one of the OWS people open a business and pay their employees more than they pay themselves. Everyone hates big business but big business made America strong because they were smarter than the average bear, they knew how to make money and how to make it grow. If you want them to pay taxes the answer is so simple it is laughable...re-elect no one then go to your newly elected congressman and get him/her to introduce legislation making a Federal Sales tax on all goods and services with no loopholes. You will buy food for your family and pay a few dollars in tax on it, the factory will buy machinery and pay hundreds of thousands of dollars on it. It is loopholes that have helped drive us into the ditch...the only tow truck that can pull us out is the no-loophole truck.
 
So let me get this straight. Verizon seeks to do what the 99% also do:

1. Pay as little tax, legally, as they can

Who exactly can give *all of us* any sort of tax break? Government. So what you have is an argument against government power....not verizon, not a corporations, not a profitable company, etc. Can be fixed with a flat(ter) tax by the way!

And it's interesting, listening to NPR this morning you have Obama and liberals proclaiming that government should subsidize the renewable energy industry (competing with private..thanks guys for cheating!). But that's exactly what state/local government do with verizon, they suibsidize them via tax breaks, because they want what verizon brings. Jobs and money. Why the title that piece "jobs first" or whatever, that's a crock of ****. They are subsidzed because those states want those jobs there, lol. Jobs first indeed!

Some liberals want the fantasy of competitive renewables. But even more people want jobs and income. If you're going give government that much power, you can't then pick and choose personally where you think it's best spent, because the PEOPLE are choosing. Those state/locals are elected representatives or appointed as such. You reap what you sow. Give government all that tax and spend power, give them the ability to pick and choose winners and losers, and don't come crying to me when you lose.

Limit government power like the libertarians suggest, and you'll go a long way to fixing that. It's about GOVERNMENT, not verizon.

Exactly. Corporations to blame? No. Blame Congress if you don't like corporate welfare. Amazing people need to be continually reminded of this.
 
Let me start with Mach's point. Yes, many who complain about what Verizon is doing will become the biggest cheerleader for entities they agree with to do the very same thing.

I do not have a large problem with corporations not paying taxes as these are simply passed along to consumers to pay, the corporations do not pay them. I understand the arguement from those who say that someone like Verizon uses the infrastructure so they should pay taxes. I'm good with either arguement within reason here.

The problem is that Verizon (or anyone) should NEVER get tax benefits that allow them to see tax payer money come in.
 
Let me start with Mach's point. Yes, many who complain about what Verizon is doing will become the biggest cheerleader for entities they agree with to do the very same thing.

I do not have a large problem with corporations not paying taxes as these are simply passed along to consumers to pay, the corporations do not pay them. I understand the arguement from those who say that someone like Verizon uses the infrastructure so they should pay taxes. I'm good with either arguement within reason here.

The problem is that Verizon (or anyone) should NEVER get tax benefits that allow them to see tax payer money come in.

I would probably agree with you in the majority of cases. But who is at fault when they do? Not the corporations, that's for sure.
 
Which means that, instead of paying money to the government, the government gives THEM money, despite the fact that they are more profitable than ever. This is Robin Hood in reverse - Steal from the poor and give to the rich.

There are welfare queens in America, and they are the super rich, who receive the lion's share of welfare payments. Dare to take the red pill, and read this report on Verizon. Whether you are Liberal, Conservative, or Libertarian, this report should make your blood boil. No, we are not being turned into batteries..... yet, but we are nevertheless beset by parasites, who are sucking our blood, with the help of Democrats and Republicans who don't give two ****s for We the People. It is time for a third party.

Article is here.

Actually, they're paying estimated taxes every quarter that are written off at the end of the year and recorded as a loss vice their tax bill.

But, hey! Don't let the facts confuse things.
 
I would probably agree with you in the majority of cases. But who is at fault when they do? Not the corporations, that's for sure.

Yes, that it's the politicians allowing this is 100% correct. Indeed simply blaming corporations epecially while still supporting them (I wonder how many Verizon phones OWSers hold?) and not blaming politicians will accomplish nothing.
 
Yes, that it's the politicians allowing this is 100% correct. Indeed simply blaming corporations epecially while still supporting them (I wonder how many Verizon phones OWSers hold?) and not blaming politicians will accomplish nothing.

If we ever get that through our thick skulls, we'll get somewhere. Congress loves to see us blaming:

The Rich
Corporations
Big Banks
Next Popular Target, whatever that may be

It's all on them. They are the jakes that let it alllllll happen.
 
It's about GOVERNMENT, not verizon.

Actually, this situation is very much about BOTH. I realize that the "I hate government " crowd refuses to take a careful look at examples such as Verizon but would rather use it to indict government as an institution instead. But what need to happen here is to use this very real example as a template to fix a system gone wrong. A company making these sort of billion dollar profits should indeed pay its taxes. Our government badly needs to look at tax breaks and loophole and incentives and get rid of them when they produce such a ridiculous situation as this.

And we as the People badly need to look at those in government who are more than willing to provide this sort of preferential treatment to government in return for whatever they are getting in return.
 
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Actually, this situation is very much about BOTH. I realize that the "I hate government " crowd refuses to take a careful look at examples such as Verizon but would rather use it to indict government as an institution instead. But what need to happen here is to use this very real example as a template to fix a system gone wrong.

And that fix needs to come from where?

A company making these sort of billion dollar profits should indeed pay its taxes. Our government badly needs to look at tax breaks and loophole and incentives and get rid of them when they produce such a ridiculous situation as this.

And we as the People badly need to look at those in government who are more than willing to provide this sort of preferential treatment to government in return for whatever they are getting in return.

Solyndra. Nah, not relevant eh?
 
The first way to deal with this problem is the same for corporations and the general public.... STOP THE GOVERNMENT FROM SPENDING MONEY ON UNCONSTITUTIONAL PROGRAMS..... like Welfare (corporate or personal), Medicare, HUD, Education, Environment, etc.....

Really Tigger, that way we only educate the rich? Sounds fair to me... That way we can have a subclass...
 
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According to Verizon's annual report they payed a 19.4% effective federal income tax last year, all of which is a deferred tax expense. I assume that becomes a long term liability and is paid later. This article only cites the current tax expense, but not the whole story. So basically I think this article just cherry picked their numbers.
 
So let me get this straight. Verizon seeks to do what the 99% also do:

1. Pay as little tax, legally, as they can

Who exactly can give *all of us* any sort of tax break? Government. So what you have is an argument against government power....not verizon, not a corporations, not a profitable company, etc. Can be fixed with a flat(ter) tax by the way!

And it's interesting, listening to NPR this morning you have Obama and liberals proclaiming that government should subsidize the renewable energy industry (competing with private..thanks guys for cheating!). But that's exactly what state/local government do with verizon, they suibsidize them via tax breaks, because they want what verizon brings. Jobs and money. Why the title that piece "jobs first" or whatever, that's a crock of ****. They are subsidzed because those states want those jobs there, lol. Jobs first indeed!

Some liberals want the fantasy of competitive renewables. But even more people want jobs and income. If you're going give government that much power, you can't then pick and choose personally where you think it's best spent, because the PEOPLE are choosing. Those state/locals are elected representatives or appointed as such. You reap what you sow. Give government all that tax and spend power, give them the ability to pick and choose winners and losers, and don't come crying to me when you lose.

Limit government power like the libertarians suggest, and you'll go a long way to fixing that. It's about GOVERNMENT, not verizon.

What the hell, you seriously don't realize that many of these companies have bought and paid for a tax code that benefits them most?
 
What the hell, you seriously don't realize that many of these companies have bought and paid for a tax code that benefits them most?

What the hell? That's not what he's saying. These corporations are acting legally. If they weren't, they'd be audited, assessed and fined for their failure to follow the rules. Blame Congress.
\
I know it isn't half as much fun as blaming everyone else...hell, we'd be pretty much speechless...but it's Congress who's to blame. No.one.else.
 
Heres a quote from the OP's article:

On top of these aggressive tax avoidance maneuvers, Verizon and its subsidiary VerizonWireless have
frequently received economic development subsidies from state and local governments when opening
new facilities. The companies also often challenge the assessed value of their facilities in order to lower
property tax payments.

It seems we may have a wolf in sheeps clothing among the flock. (Or perhaps a donkey in elephant's clothing). I will reserve judgement because I couldn't stomach to read the whole article. Maybe toward the end the writer evened things out by being honest about the way the tax system works. But I doubt it. To keep from ranting too much, I'll just make a couple of quick factual points:

1) Property tax assessments are based on the Fair Market Value of the property. If the value changes, the taxable amount changes. If you believe the FMV on your property tax statement is inaccurate, you dispute it. Whether you are homeowner making 20k a year- or a big company like Verizon. Anyone who would fault Verizon for disputing their property tax values is not worth debating with.

2) It has become customary for the tax code to be a means to encourage people and businesses to to things that the government thinks are good things: like purchasing a home for the first time, or investing in low energy appliances. Or hiring unemployed people. You can't fault businesses who make full use of the tax system for the betterment of their company, as long as they stay within the law. If you don't like it, support a consumption tax insteand of this complicated system.

As far as stealing from the poor and giving to the rich? How, exactly?
 
What the hell? That's not what he's saying. These corporations are acting legally. If they weren't, they'd be audited, assessed and fined for their failure to follow the rules. Blame Congress.
\
I know it isn't half as much fun as blaming everyone else...hell, we'd be pretty much speechless...but it's Congress who's to blame. No.one.else.

That is kinda naive. What Shewof is saying is that Congress is already bought by Corp America.
 
Exactly. Corporations to blame? No. Blame Congress if you don't like corporate welfare. Amazing people need to be continually reminded of this.

It goes both ways, and I have seen your posts complaining about people being on welfare, and dropping out of school and having babies just to apply for welfare. That's blaming the poor and not blaming the government, and ftr, I don't see anything wrong with blaming both sides... because it's not entirely the governments fault. We have all allowed the government become what it is today, and businesses and corporations are included in that blame. We can't expect better from our government if we don't expect better from the people or businesses in this country. We shouldn't think of ourselves as a land of opportunists which the government has to babysit and provide constant direction to.
 
Heres a quote from the OP's article:



It seems we may have a wolf in sheeps clothing among the flock. (Or perhaps a donkey in elephant's clothing). I will reserve judgement because I couldn't stomach to read the whole article. Maybe toward the end the writer evened things out by being honest about the way the tax system works. But I doubt it. To keep from ranting too much, I'll just make a couple of quick factual points:

1) Property tax assessments are based on the Fair Market Value of the property. If the value changes, the taxable amount changes. If you believe the FMV on your property tax statement is inaccurate, you dispute it. Whether you are homeowner making 20k a year- or a big company like Verizon. Anyone who would fault Verizon for disputing their property tax values is not worth debating with.

[2) It has become customary for the tax code to be a means to encourage people and businesses to to things that the government thinks are good things: like purchasing a home for the first time, or investing in low energy appliances. Or hiring unemployed people. You can't fault businesses who make full use of the tax system for the betterment of their company, as long as they stay within the law. If you don't like it, support a consumption tax insteand of this complicated system.

As far as stealing from the poor and giving to the rich? How, exactly?

GE lobby's for "energy efficient lightbulbs". They get the standard, close up shop and move production overseas. Is the government and industry to blame here? Yes, of course but I have every right to be pissed at GE along with the government.
 
That is kinda naive. What Shewof is saying is that Congress is already bought by Corp America.

Kinda' naive?? What are you talking about?? If Congress is bought by Corporate America it's because Congress let itself be bought. It's because Congress doesn't give a **** about what's best for our country. It's because Congress cares more about preserving the status quo than fixing our sick economy. It's because Congress is filled with whores. Blame the John? Or blame the whore? Take your pick. I'll pick the one I can do something about at the ballot box.
 
What the hell? That's not what he's saying. These corporations are acting legally. If they weren't, they'd be audited, assessed and fined for their failure to follow the rules. Blame Congress.
\
I know it isn't half as much fun as blaming everyone else...hell, we'd be pretty much speechless...but it's Congress who's to blame. No.one.else.

I never said they are acting illegally. I am saying that they have more control and power over Congress than we do.
 
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