Paterno getting the boot at PennState

OscarB63 said:

don't know: that's why I asked the question "where were the parents in all of this". If they knew, they are just as guilty as everyone else.

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It matters though. If anyone knew, and did nothing, they share the responisbility. But they did have to know. I understand the children hiding it, and that's sad. But to walk in on it and trun around? Now that's something to call someone on. To know and not follow up? yeah, I have a problem with that as well.

OscarB63 said:

it's as much the parent's fault as it is Paterno's fault. if we are going to blame everyone involved....then let's blame EVERYONE involved.

by not going to the police themselves, this boys parents are just as guilty as Paterno and just as responsible for every boy that got butt-raped afterwards.

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OscarB63 said:

don't know: that's why I asked the question "where were the parents in all of this". If they knew, they are just as guilty as everyone else.

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Hold it. You're making some very big assumptions here. Most parents I know, if they knew their kids were molested, they'd fight with everything they had to lock up the perpetrator and throw away the key. And don't forget that due to the nature of sexual assault, victims are often very reluctant to come forward.

Phys251 said:

Hold it. You're making some very big assumptions here. Most parents I know, if they knew their kids were molested, they'd fight with everything they had to lock up the perpetrator and throw away the key. And don't forget that due to the nature of sexual assault, victims are often very reluctant to come forward.

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McQueary knew, his father knew, Paterno knew, the AD knew, DA Gricar knew, plenty of people knew. I find it hard to believe that not one of these people involved informed this boy's parents that he had been raped.

and FWIW, I am making no assumptions. I asked a question and then said IF, repeat IF, the parents knew they were just as guilty.


you conveniently left out my first comment "where were the parents in all this?"

Phys251 said:

Hold it. You're making some very big assumptions here. Most parents I know, if they knew their kids were molested, they'd fight with everything they had to lock up the perpetrator and throw away the key. And don't forget that due to the nature of sexual assault, victims are often very reluctant to come forward.

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Yes, that's true and very important to remember.

My understanding is that the eight boys known to the grand jury were fathertheless. Being offered great opportunities and male camraderie, which is great.

The assaults took place in a Sandusky basement bedroom and in the showers at Penn State. Sandusky admitted long ago to "horseplay" in the showers, but the grand jury was provided pretty compelling eyewitness evidence (at least to me) by a physical plant employee whose coworkers feared he was having a heart attack afterward because of the shock of what he saw.

OscarB63 said:

McQueary knew, his father knew, Paterno knew, the AD knew, DA Gricar knew, plenty of people knew. I find it hard to believe that not one of these people involved informed this boy's parents that he had been raped.

and FWIW, I am making no assumptions. I asked a question and then said IF, repeat IF, the parents knew they were just as guilty.


you conveniently left out my first comment "where were the parents in all this?"

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The odds of such a thing happening are very, very slim. Are you seriously suggesting that some of the parents knew their kids were getting molested and did nothing about it?

Boo Radley said:

It matters though. If anyone knew, and did nothing, they share the responisbility. But they did have to know. I understand the children hiding it, and that's sad. But to walk in on it and trun around? Now that's something to call someone on. To know and not follow up? yeah, I have a problem with that as well.

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I agree, and what gets me is how the students rioted in support of Paterno, never caring about the children that were molested. It's all about football, and that's all Penn State has ever stood for. Penn State will go down in history with a forever stain on it that football means more than a child's welfare.

From everything I have seen so far, I disagree with Paterno getting fired. More may come out that could change my opinion, but as for now, I disagree and feel that Penn State is pathetically attempting to take the focus off of them by creating a media shyt storm with Paterno. Clever, but pathetic. Paterno claims that what he was told was not graphic in terms of details of rape. That would make a lot of sense because I find it hard to believe that Sandusky was raping a 10 year old boy in the locker room, one where McQuery could just walk in and witness such action. And, McQuery doing nothing about it, and not even notifying law enforcement about it.

I am not in any way defending Sandusky here, it seems obvious enough that there was a lot of inapropriate pedophile activity going on. He should hang by his balls for sure. Many in Penn State should for attempting to sweep this under the rug and allow it to continue. Paterno was not one of them. He did take action, and take the apropriate action of what he said he was told. Sandusky was already retired and just hanging around doing his charity kiddy thing. Supposedly things were mentioned, witnessed, a DA who fails to even look further into it. So much seems to be a lot of speculation and not a lot of truth yet. It takes 3 years to put together a strong enough case for arrest yet supposedly there was such obvious pedophile sex abuse going on??

Believe me when I say that nothing disgusts me more and riles me up more than sexual abuse of children by pedophiles. From a standpoint of the info out so far, I disagree with Paterno being fired and think the motivation for doing so was Penn STate taking heat off themselves and creating a fall guy in this. Time will tell I guess if Paterno had more knowledge of what was happening and if he was involved in keeping it quiet. As for now that does not seem to be the case.

How old were these kids? And what were they doing at the university? Since Penn State is a college I find it difficult to believe these weren't of age college students involved in this.

OscarB63 said:

McQueary knew, his father knew, Paterno knew, the AD knew, DA Gricar knew, plenty of people knew. I find it hard to believe that not one of these people involved informed this boy's parents that he had been raped.

and FWIW, I am making no assumptions. I asked a question and then said IF, repeat IF, the parents knew they were just as guilty.


you conveniently left out my first comment "where were the parents in all this?"

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Nobody has said much about the parents reaction. But for the life of me I can't imagine that phone call to the parent ; "Hello Ms Douglas, this is assistant coach Mike McQueary. We had a little funny incident down at the locker room today. But I have called my dad."

This whole story sounds similiar to the 1964 Kitty Genovese incident in which she was stabbed and raped while 38 people heard her cries but did nothing. Interesting in the case of Genovese is that her killer, 76 yr old Winston Moseley, was denied parole on Nov 9, 2011.

Binky said:

How old were these kids? And what were they doing at the university? Since Penn State is a college I find it difficult to believe these weren't of age college students involved in this.

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You're obviously not paying attention then. Sandusky had a charity for "at risk" boys, mostly in middle school. He used his continued access to the locker room to take the boys there. Where he ****ed them.

I don't know about you, but if I were a Penn State football player, I'd just be like 'You know what? I'll take a shower at home if it's all the same to you."

Binky said:

How old were these kids? And what were they doing at the university? Since Penn State is a college I find it difficult to believe these weren't of age college students involved in this.

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Have you read the grand jury report? Links have been posted in multiple threads here at DP and also at CNN, MSNBC, and other news outlets. The context about which you're asking will become clear if you read the grand jury report.

Paterno will be lucky not to do time. It's just the tip of the iceberg. These officials were in denial that such a scumbag could be working in their midst. I lived in Pittsburgh for six years, but these rioting and apologetic students should be ashamed of themselves. This man was abusing children since 1999! In 2002, a witness to a brutal scene of abuse reported it to Paterno and he did nothing more than tell his supervisors. You would think there would be some kind of follow-up and definitely a call to the police. And now, there seems to be evidence that the Second Mile organization was involved in the scandal or at least had knowledge of Sandusky's actions. I wonder if these rioters would be out there if it was one of their younger brothers.

OscarB63 said:

McQueary knew, his father knew, Paterno knew, the AD knew, DA Gricar knew, plenty of people knew. I find it hard to believe that not one of these people involved informed this boy's parents that he had been raped.

and FWIW, I am making no assumptions. I asked a question and then said IF, repeat IF, the parents knew they were just as guilty.


you conveniently left out my first comment "where were the parents in all this?"

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If they weren't willing to call the police at the time it occurred, nor were they willing to follow-up in the matter, what makes you think they would tell the parents?

ElijahGalt said:

Paterno will be lucky not to do time. It's just the tip of the iceberg. These officials were in denial that such a scumbag could be working in their midst. I lived in Pittsburgh for six years, but these rioting and apologetic students should be ashamed of themselves. This man was abusing children since 1999! In 2002, a witness to a brutal scene of abuse reported it to Paterno and he did nothing more than tell his supervisors. You would think there would be some kind of follow-up and definitely a call to the police. And now, there seems to be evidence that the Second Mile organization was involved in the scandal or at least had knowledge of Sandusky's actions. I wonder if these rioters would be out there if it was one of their younger brothers.

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I hope you're wrong, but I fear you're right. But justice is infinitely more important than an institution's reputation.

TurtleDude said:

Just heard on local news (home with a sinus mess) Channel 9, WCPO Cincinnati, that Paterno will not be back next season due to the sex scandal

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Calling this a sex scandal is inaccurate. This wasn't a sexual act between two consenting adults. This is a child rape scandal.

ElijahGalt said:

Paterno will be lucky not to do time. It's just the tip of the iceberg. These officials were in denial that such a scumbag could be working in their midst. I lived in Pittsburgh for six years, but these rioting and apologetic students should be ashamed of themselves. This man was abusing children since 1999! In 2002, a witness to a brutal scene of abuse reported it to Paterno and he did nothing more than tell his supervisors. You would think there would be some kind of follow-up and definitely a call to the police. And now, there seems to be evidence that the Second Mile organization was involved in the scandal or at least had knowledge of Sandusky's actions. I wonder if these rioters would be out there if it was one of their younger brothers.

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To be fair to Penn State students, the rioting occurred directly after the announcement that Paterno had been sacked and before students were aware of the crimes. To my knowledge, the students immediately settled down and began organizing in solidarity with the victims of child sex abuse.

nota bene said:

To be fair to Penn State students, the rioting occurred directly after the announcement that Paterno had been sacked and before students were aware of the crimes. To my knowledge, the students immediately settled down and began organizing in solidarity with the victims of child sex abuse.

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The allegations were the stated reason's for Paterno's dismissal. The students, including the ones that rioted, were aware of this.

I don't think the kids really understood at that point; they were reacting. They're young and were impassioned, and they were wrong and behaved very badly. But it seems that once they became aware of the facts, they calmed down and took positive actions.

nota bene said:

I don't think the kids really understood at that point; they were reacting. They're young and were impassioned, and they were wrong and behaved very badly. But it seems that once they became aware of the facts, they calmed down and took positive actions.

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This has been my take on it also. I've seen a few die hards but for the most part any complaints have died down.

1Perry said:

This has been my take on it also. I've seen a few die hards but for the most part any complaints have died down.

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Agreed. I'm always a little more forgiving of young folks than more mature people.

The way this was handled is unprecedented for a conservative state like PA.

While punishing sex abusing scumbags who are prominent individuals in a community is old news for modern liberal states, in a Fundamentalist Xtian stronghold, it's a new thing. These conservative Xtian folks are not comfortable talking about these issues Their discomfort w/such things likely helped contribute to the silence for so long.

It's good that these people are slowly evolving.

solletica said:

The way this was handled is unprecedented for a conservative state like PA.

While punishing sex abusing scumbags who are prominent individuals in a community is old news for modern liberal states, in a Fundamentalist Xtian stronghold, it's a new thing. These conservative Xtian folks are not comfortable talking about these issues Their discomfort w/such things likely helped contribute to the silence for so long.

It's good that these people are slowly evolving.

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oh good grief.

solletica said:

The way this was handled is unprecedented for a conservative state like PA.

While punishing sex abusing scumbags who are prominent individuals in a community is old news for modern liberal states, in a Fundamentalist Xtian stronghold, it's a new thing. These conservative Xtian folks are not comfortable talking about these issues Their discomfort w/such things likely helped contribute to the silence for so long.

It's good that these people are slowly evolving.

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Maybe. Maybe not. I'd wait for a lot more facts to emerge before reaching conclusions such as this.

I've heard reports that an additional 10 victims have been identified beyond the original 8

OK, now McQueary is saying he DID talk to the police.

In the email obtained by The Morning Call, McQueary wrote that he "did have discussions with police and with the official at the university in charge of police" following the alleged incident involving Sandusky, a former Penn State assistant coach, and a boy.

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McQueary Penn State scandal: Mike McQueary says he did go to police - mcall.com

So either McQueary is a liar, or all the bashing of Paterno for "not doing enough" is bull**** because, if McQueary is being honest, there was no need for Paterno to report the incident to the cops since McQueary had already done so.