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Sen. Bernie Sanders: U.S. becoming laughing stock of the world

"Historically, cost overruns for rail projects nearly always arise and can be enormous. Consider a few examples. In Florida, the rail system proposed for Hillsborough County was originally estimated to cost $70 million per mile, but estimates now range from $85 to $120 million per mile. Chris Christie recently made national headlines for abandoning the ARC rail tunnel project that would have connected New York and New Jersey. The project was initially supposed to cost $5 million but projections have recent to $14 billion. With the federal government's share capped at $6 billion, undertaking the project could have left taxpayers on the hook for billions. The most infamous rail cost overrun was Boston's Big Dig, which was supposed to cost $2 billion back when the project was started in 1982. When the projected was finished 23 years later, the total bill came in at $15 billion, for which the state was forced to pay half. In other words, Massachusetts' share of the Big Dig ended up being over 3 times the total estimated cost."

And thats just for the cost to build it. States (taxpayers) then have to absorb the deficit to operate it (because the toll proceeds never come close).

So...when your grandkids come to you and ask how come he or she has to pay for that massive debt you stuck them with...just tell them...well...we didnt want anyone to say we were a laughing stock...so we dropped (on them) about a trillion dollars nationwide into building a system that has over the course of the last 20 years or so has cost them a few trillion more.
 
Why do we need to rebuild our infrastructure? Because transportation is essential to an economy. Not a thriving economy, not even a decent economy. An economy, period. And it doesn't take many gaps in the infrastructure to send serious shock waves throughout the area. Just look at what is happening in Louisville, Kentucky, where a major bridge has been shut down because of serious weaknesses in load-bearing structures. And remember the I-35W bridge collapse in Minnesota a few years ago, and the massive headache it caused? Minnesotans knew how vital it was to rebuild, and they did so in record time.

There are bridges and roads all over this nation that MUST be repaved, repaired, or in some cases rebuilt. And this stagnant economy is as good a time as any to get workers and engineers employed to do that work. Ignore the naysayers; we NEED to do this. It's the economy, stupid.
 
Why do we need to rebuild our infrastructure? Because transportation is essential to an economy. Not a thriving economy, not even a decent economy. An economy, period. And it doesn't take many gaps in the infrastructure to send serious shock waves throughout the area. Just look at what is happening in Louisville, Kentucky, where a major bridge has been shut down because of serious weaknesses in load-bearing structures. And remember the I-35W bridge collapse in Minnesota a few years ago, and the massive headache it caused? Minnesotans knew how vital it was to rebuild, and they did so in record time.

There are bridges and roads all over this nation that MUST be repaved, repaired, or in some cases rebuilt. And this stagnant economy is as good a time as any to get workers and engineers employed to do that work. Ignore the naysayers; we NEED to do this. It's the economy, stupid.

I think there are very few that argue against fixing existing infrastructure.
The problem is that, some are wanting additional infrastructure, while we can't maintain what we have now.

It's dumb.
 
Why do we need to rebuild our infrastructure? Because transportation is essential to an economy. Not a thriving economy, not even a decent economy. An economy, period. And it doesn't take many gaps in the infrastructure to send serious shock waves throughout the area. Just look at what is happening in Louisville, Kentucky, where a major bridge has been shut down because of serious weaknesses in load-bearing structures. And remember the I-35W bridge collapse in Minnesota a few years ago, and the massive headache it caused? Minnesotans knew how vital it was to rebuild, and they did so in record time.

There are bridges and roads all over this nation that MUST be repaved, repaired, or in some cases rebuilt. And this stagnant economy is as good a time as any to get workers and engineers employed to do that work. Ignore the naysayers; we NEED to do this. It's the economy, stupid.
These proposals arent simply about fixing and maintaining roads. They are proposing projects like light rail that cost 85-110 million a MILE just to put in place, not including the cost of the rolling stock, and not including the cost of maintenance. See...this is the problem. They throw out a few populist ideas with some catch phrases and slogans and hey...why...thats good enough for folks...lets do it!
 
I think there are very few that argue against fixing existing infrastructure.

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We're not talking about building brand-new interstate highways here. Much of what we're talking about here is simply road and bridge maintenance that has been put off for years. We need to stop kicking the can down the road and fix these bridges, NOW.

The problem is that, some are wanting additional infrastructure, while we can't maintain what we have now.

It's dumb.

What are you talking about? Right now, Louisville, Kentucky has a major bridge on a major interstate highway that is CLOSED. Why? Because it has serious structural flaws, to the point where it is literally dangerous to drive over. You know how much that is costing greater Louisville every single day? A LOT. That hurts their economy. All these deficit hawks love to rail about spending, spending, spending, but what they don't stop and THINK about is that in some cases--notice I didn't say "all"!--but in some cases, when you don't spend, crap like this happens.

Look, if you've got a SPECIFIC project that has even a rudimentary cost-benefit analysis to show that it's just not worth it, I am all ears. Just don't automatically slam it because it's light rail or some crap like that.

These proposals arent simply about fixing and maintaining roads. They are proposing projects like light rail that cost 85-110 million a MILE just to put in place, not including the cost of the rolling stock, and not including the cost of maintenance. See...this is the problem. They throw out a few populist ideas with some catch phrases and slogans and hey...why...thats good enough for folks...lets do it!

Notice I was specifically referring to ROADS? Look, I know conservatives hold a strong contempt for passenger rail. I get that. That's why I intentionally brought up roads. Are you against fixing our roads, too?

Lemme give you guys an example of one of the many, many situations that need to be rectified. There's a bridge on my drive home that is more than half a century old, is near a major intersection, and thus prevents any sort of road-widening that would help unclog this bottleneck. Every day around rush hour, you can see cars lined up for nearly half a mile waiting to go straight or turn left, all because the road is two lanes instead of the necessary four, something that cannot be fixed until the bridge is. Why is this a bad thing to fix?? Why are WE, the pro-infrastructure improvement people, the ones on the defensive here?? The ones on the defensive should be those that want to block this progress, that want to torpedo the whole process, simply because a process that has been going on for many decades "costs too much." Get over it already! If you don't like infrastructure, why don't you move to the Amazon?
 
These proposals arent simply about fixing and maintaining roads. They are proposing projects like light rail that cost 85-110 million a MILE just to put in place, not including the cost of the rolling stock, and not including the cost of maintenance. See...this is the problem. They throw out a few populist ideas with some catch phrases and slogans and hey...why...thats good enough for folks...lets do it!

The problem with the way American evaluate rail and public transportation is that they always expect it to make a profit without any government subsidy.

But they never use that same standard for the roadways. They simply expect subsidy of the automobile industry.

Before the collapse of public transportation systems in the 1950s (when the automobile industry got its biggest subsidy ever - called the Interstate Highway System - and it was MUCH larger than the bailouts), it was efficient and profitable. Many cities had private/public partnerships and both the private industries and municipalities made good money off of it.

I guarantee you that there are at least 40 people in my neighborhood who work in downtown Nashville. What is more cost efficient and energy efficient? All 40 of them driving separately or all 40 of them taking a bus or a train car at the same time?

Further, cities with good public transportation systems have much lower DUI rates than cities without, so it's also a public safety issue.

Further, many studies say good public transportation is better for job accessibility and can help ease unemployment.
 
The problem with the way American evaluate rail and public transportation is that they always expect it to make a profit without any government subsidy.

But they never use that same standard for the roadways. They simply expect subsidy of the automobile industry.

Before the collapse of public transportation systems in the 1950s (when the automobile industry got its biggest subsidy ever - called the Interstate Highway System - and it was MUCH larger than the bailouts), it was efficient and profitable. Many cities had private/public partnerships and both the private industries and municipalities made good money off of it.

I guarantee you that there are at least 40 people in my neighborhood who work in downtown Nashville. What is more cost efficient and energy efficient? All 40 of them driving separately or all 40 of them taking a bus or a train car at the same time?

Further, cities with good public transportation systems have much lower DUI rates than cities without, so it's also a public safety issue.

Further, many studies say good public transportation is better for job accessibility and can help ease unemployment.
Did you read any of the small SAMPLING of debt and deficit spending that is CURRENTLY costing the taxpayers billions to operate mass transit systems? Do you get how much PER MILE it would cost? Can you honestly justify strapping your grandchildren with MORE debt and a future bill to sustain those systems? The notion is fiscal insanity. Maybe we should stop figuring we have the right to just completely **** over future generation at our whim.
 
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We're not talking about building brand-new interstate highways here. Much of what we're talking about here is simply road and bridge maintenance that has been put off for years. We need to stop kicking the can down the road and fix these bridges, NOW.



What are you talking about? Right now, Louisville, Kentucky has a major bridge on a major interstate highway that is CLOSED. Why? Because it has serious structural flaws, to the point where it is literally dangerous to drive over. You know how much that is costing greater Louisville every single day? A LOT. That hurts their economy. All these deficit hawks love to rail about spending, spending, spending, but what they don't stop and THINK about is that in some cases--notice I didn't say "all"!--but in some cases, when you don't spend, crap like this happens.

Look, if you've got a SPECIFIC project that has even a rudimentary cost-benefit analysis to show that it's just not worth it, I am all ears. Just don't automatically slam it because it's light rail or some crap like that.



Notice I was specifically referring to ROADS? Look, I know conservatives hold a strong contempt for passenger rail. I get that. That's why I intentionally brought up roads. Are you against fixing our roads, too?

Lemme give you guys an example of one of the many, many situations that need to be rectified. There's a bridge on my drive home that is more than half a century old, is near a major intersection, and thus prevents any sort of road-widening that would help unclog this bottleneck. Every day around rush hour, you can see cars lined up for nearly half a mile waiting to go straight or turn left, all because the road is two lanes instead of the necessary four, something that cannot be fixed until the bridge is. Why is this a bad thing to fix?? Why are WE, the pro-infrastructure improvement people, the ones on the defensive here?? The ones on the defensive should be those that want to block this progress, that want to torpedo the whole process, simply because a process that has been going on for many decades "costs too much." Get over it already! If you don't like infrastructure, why don't you move to the Amazon?
This OP and thread wasnt ABOUT roads. Sen Sanders is SPECIFICALLY talking about light rail. If roads and existing infrastructure need repaired thats a pretty sure sign your state is doing a piss poor job of managing their budgets. Tossing federal money at the problem isnt going to fix the problem. The problem isnt your roads, its your state government. If it is a FED highway or road...fine...spend the necessary money.

No one is suggesting there shouldnt be adequate infrastructure. No one is suggesting there shouldnt be adequate state and local taxes. Quite the opposite.
 
This OP and thread wasnt ABOUT roads. Sen Sanders is SPECIFICALLY talking about light rail. If roads and existing infrastructure need repaired thats a pretty sure sign your state is doing a piss poor job of managing their budgets. Tossing federal money at the problem isnt going to fix the problem. The problem isnt your roads, its your state government. If it is a FED highway or road...fine...spend the necessary money.

No he didn't, Vance. Watch the video again. He very clearly said "roads and bridges and rail systems."

No one is suggesting there shouldnt be adequate infrastructure. No one is suggesting there shouldnt be adequate state and local taxes. Quite the opposite.

I don't believe you. Otherwise, this infrastructure bill would have passed with flying colors.
 
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Is there any evidence that our infrastructure is lacking? It seems like roads are being repaved whether they need it or not. Is this another example of politicians buying votes by spending other people's money?
 
A certifiable 'genius'. Add hundreds of billions to the debt payed for by future generations, on systems that will require hundreds of billions to operate for as long as they are in operation. Why...I just cant see how ANYONE can have a problem with that concept. Except of course the people in the states on the hook for paying for the services.

He is certifiable alright. However it is NOT shocking that a union hack would think this is a great idea. Who cares if it isnt economically viable...mo debt, mo spending equals mo union jobs.

Say...if this makes so much sense, why arent the unions invested in spending their union employees dues on private investment into such ideas?

Its bad enough to see fit to attack Senator Sanders for trying to help America... but attempting to get in a second cheap shot on me, plus an even worse cheap shots of unions themselves speaks volumes about you and your style.
 
And unfortunately, it would be hard to argue for a 2 trillion dollar increase in funding now.
 
Infrastructure spending has gone steadily up over the decades.
We've continued to invest mightily into it.

Only recently, has spending sort of leveled off.

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/119xx/doc11940/11-17-Infrastructure.pdf

I read this and I'm not sure I understand it. Is infrastructure spending growing and taking into consideration inflation and the new roads being built? Or is it just more money being sent without acknowledging the myriad of other factors?
 
I participate in an international forum similar to this one (mostly read there as I have little to add to what they already know). The US is viewed as a very young country that has peaked and is going down the tubes because it does not understand that failing to take care of the basic needs of the citizens (food, shelter, means of livelihood, healthcare) and taking care of the basic needs of the economy (infrastructure and availability of capital) has been the downfall of many, many countries.
What do you think happened to the USSR? The USA is headed down the same path. Failing to recognize this and fix it will result in the same fate for the USA. Too big to fail? Don't bet on it.

I have often said this about a particular political party (as they are worst of the offenders), but its true of America as a whole. The metaphor involves a 46 year old man who, at 18, WAS the local high school football star. Once upon a time he was the big man on campus, always with a babe under his arm. Now, he is a 46 year old fat, balding man who sells Chevrolet's for a living. Yet, when he looks i hn the mirror, all he sees is the 18 year old stud. Yes, America is (Americans are) arrogant, living in the glory of its past and unable to see the fat slob it has become. Sorry, but you will never get your self into shape until you are terrified by how out of shape and ugly you have become.

One of the fundamental principals of business is that a successful firm never rests on its laurels. It is constantly challenging itself to offer better products, cheaper; constantly re-inventing itself. You will never get into that mindset until you can be critical of yourself, which Americans can not seem to do.
 
Its bad enough to see fit to attack Senator Sanders for trying to help America... but attempting to get in a second cheap shot on me, plus an even worse cheap shots of unions themselves speaks volumes about you and your style.
How is that a cheap shot at you? You bleat and blather on and on and on and on...ad ****ing nauseum, about unions all you want, but you more than anyone else here knows that this type of legislation is nothing more than a bone to the unions. You talk about these projects...you talk about jobs...you are full of hot air and bull**** and cheap rhetoric. Its not a cheap shot at 'you', but it IS an absolute statement of fact. Your beloved unions have ****ed over American labor absolutely and completely. The labor unions and the irresponsible city and state government contracts and spending have pushed most states budgets to the point that they are all under water. What I suggested with regard to unions is some of that 'hope' and 'change'....a simple opportunity to put up or once and for all shut the **** up. Stop leeching off the taxpayers through the democrat money laundering schemes and start some good and legitimate investments...put those mountains of cash the unions spend on political campaigns into private investment...companies, job PRODUCING ventures instead of the continued sucking and leeching and draining of the taxpayers and industry. Unions have so completely bled the private sector dry that all the industrial jobs are gone. Thank goodness for people like Bernie Sanders and Barrack Obama that continue to toss gold into your coffers, right? Oh...but hey...join the ranks of the '99%' and protest against undue influence on the political process, right? How much union stink do democrats in this country have on them?

These proposals are all about digging a deeper hole so the unions can get more cash flush...and so they can continue to spray their funk on their political bedpartners.

Statement of fact...not a cheap shot at you (though you are the biggest union shill on the board). You want to take it personal? Your world...but I think I am usually pretty direct, no?
 
How many of those roads are state roads? State sewage and plumbing systems? Where is the requirement for new highway systems? States are responsible to maintain their roads. They have done a dismal job of budgeting and all this talk does is suggests that another two trillion dollars should be heaped on your grandchildren and great grandchildren because people today refuse to responsibly manage their current budgets.
 
No he didn't, Vance. Watch the video again. He very clearly said "roads and bridges and rail systems."



I don't believe you. Otherwise, this infrastructure bill would have passed with flying colors.
WHat he very clearly said was that he wanted to pass the presidents jobs bill to protect union workers and then he listed them. He gave vague reference to roads and bridges but is he talking about state roads? Building federal highways? The only SPECIFIC he mentioned was light rail...the comparison between the US and Europe. Bernie Sanders is an unasheamed and admitted socialist (I actually respect that he is the only liberal in congress willing to admit it) but his defense of this system is designed to dump money into unions...period.
 
I have often said this about a particular political party (as they are worst of the offenders), but its true of America as a whole. The metaphor involves a 46 year old man who, at 18, WAS the local high school football star. Once upon a time he was the big man on campus, always with a babe under his arm. Now, he is a 46 year old fat, balding man who sells Chevrolet's for a living. Yet, when he looks i hn the mirror, all he sees is the 18 year old stud. Yes, America is (Americans are) arrogant, living in the glory of its past and unable to see the fat slob it has become. Sorry, but you will never get your self into shape until you are terrified by how out of shape and ugly you have become.

One of the fundamental principals of business is that a successful firm never rests on its laurels. It is constantly challenging itself to offer better products, cheaper; constantly re-inventing itself. You will never get into that mindset until you can be critical of yourself, which Americans can not seem to do.

OMG, that is SO true.

It raises the question of who really loves their country: Those that wave flags and constantly proclaim "USA #1!", or those that want to do what it takes to actually make it #1? I thought that actions spoke louder than words.

How many of those roads are state roads? State sewage and plumbing systems? Where is the requirement for new highway systems? States are responsible to maintain their roads. They have done a dismal job of budgeting and all this talk does is suggests that another two trillion dollars should be heaped on your grandchildren and great grandchildren because people today refuse to responsibly manage their current budgets.

Red herring.

WHat he very clearly said was that he wanted to pass the presidents jobs bill to protect union workers and then he listed them. He gave vague reference to roads and bridges but is he talking about state roads? Building federal highways? The only SPECIFIC he mentioned was light rail...the comparison between the US and Europe. Bernie Sanders is an unasheamed and admitted socialist (I actually respect that he is the only liberal in congress willing to admit it) but his defense of this system is designed to dump money into unions...period.

Go back to the OP, click on the link, and fast-forward the video to the 3:35 mark. He says, AND I QUOTE: "That's roads, and bridges, and rail systems."

Vance, I'm not convinced your being honest here. You come across as someone who may be so blindly opposed to anything Obama, or anything liberal, that you will attack anything that even remotely sounds connected to them, no matter how good they may be. What is your deal, man? Right now, we have a major interstate highway in Louisville that is shut down because of structural deficiencies, but because of people like you, securing funding for that vital artery is going to be tough. This has never been a political issue! The Republicans are choosing to make infrastructure, of all things, a political issue. Do they not want us to be able to even get to work, turn on the lights, and pour a glass of clean water? Why the hell are we even debating this?
 
Do they not want us to be able to even get to work, turn on the lights, and pour a glass of clean water? Why the hell are we even debating this?

Because the government is so hamstrung by ideology and party as to be dysfunctional.
 
Is the headline of the story Bernie Sanders: U.S. senator is a laughingstock?
No Bernie Sanders js not the laughing stock, It is obvious that you no nothing of the real Bernie Sanders. He and Ron Paul are the only two congressman that run lobbyists out of their offices and do not take corporate money and favors that would eventually control them as it does our other congressman. Both are on the opposite ends of the political spectrum but they are consistent with their votes and stand on their principal, both are representatives of good character and vote their convictions. Both support withdrawal of all troops from these boondoggles and occupations we are involved in, both want America to stop trying to be the policemen of the world, both want all foreign bases closed and all troops brought home. Of course the military/industrial complex doesn't agree. Both believe our failed free trade agreements is creating the decline of America and destroying the greatest middle class the world has ever known. They would renegotiate our failed free trade agreements and make the fair trade agreements. They both would end the failed war on drugs. By keeping drugs illegal we are corrupting every level of law enforcement, prisons are full of drug offenders, those addicted to the drugs have to commit crimes to pay for the drugs due to its being illegal, creates a market with prices no one can afford with normal jobs.America went through this during probation(and came to the realization that it did not work) neither is our war on drugs. From that point on the differ in political ideology. Bernie Sanders is right about our crumbling infrastructure. We had eight years of letting the infrastructure crumble while we involved ourselves in phony wars and occupations to the tune of trillions of unpaid debt. We deregulated the banking,insurance industry and allowed the banksters to rape and pillage the American people along with the war debt,we went broke. Now the tea baggers want to come in and cut/destroy SS/Medicare and all social safety net programs while cutting taxes on the wealthy and corporations. We have reached a turning point with Ohio and repeal of the governors anti union legislation. Next is Wisconsin and the nation. America has woke and will go to the poll in mass in 2012. they sat on their rears and let the far right crazies take control of the House. America is fed up with the debacle in the House created by the my way or the highway, no compromise crowd. We Independents will join with the Dem's and throw out all bible thumping religious fanatics and tea bagging lunatics(commonly known as the flat earth folks). We must vote out these individuals in2012 if we are to survive.
 
No Bernie Sanders js not the laughing stock, It is obvious that you no nothing of the real Bernie Sanders. He and Ron Paul are the only two congressman that run lobbyists out of their offices and do not take corporate money and favors that would eventually control them as it does our other congressman. Both are on the opposite ends of the political spectrum but they are consistent with their votes and stand on their principal, both are representatives of good character and vote their convictions. Both support withdrawal of all troops from these boondoggles and occupations we are involved in, both want America to stop trying to be the policemen of the world, both want all foreign bases closed and all troops brought home. Of course the military/industrial complex doesn't agree. Both believe our failed free trade agreements is creating the decline of America and destroying the greatest middle class the world has ever known. They would renegotiate our failed free trade agreements and make the fair trade agreements. They both would end the failed war on drugs. By keeping drugs illegal we are corrupting every level of law enforcement, prisons are full of drug offenders, those addicted to the drugs have to commit crimes to pay for the drugs due to its being illegal, creates a market with prices no one can afford with normal jobs.America went through this during probation(and came to the realization that it did not work) neither is our war on drugs. From that point on the differ in political ideology. Bernie Sanders is right about our crumbling infrastructure. We had eight years of letting the infrastructure crumble while we involved ourselves in phony wars and occupations to the tune of trillions of unpaid debt. We deregulated the banking,insurance industry and allowed the banksters to rape and pillage the American people along with the war debt,we went broke. Now the tea baggers want to come in and cut/destroy SS/Medicare and all social safety net programs while cutting taxes on the wealthy and corporations. We have reached a turning point with Ohio and repeal of the governors anti union legislation. Next is Wisconsin and the nation. America has woke and will go to the poll in mass in 2012. they sat on their rears and let the far right crazies take control of the House. America is fed up with the debacle in the House created by the my way or the highway, no compromise crowd. We Independents will join with the Dem's and throw out all bible thumping religious fanatics and tea bagging lunatics(commonly known as the flat earth folks). We must vote out these individuals in2012 if we are to survive.

It's not Bernie Sanders who is the laughingstock. It is Bernie Sanders who is saying that the US is the laughingstock.
 
OMG, that is SO true.

It raises the question of who really loves their country: Those that wave flags and constantly proclaim "USA #1!", or those that want to do what it takes to actually make it #1? I thought that actions spoke louder than words.



Red herring.



Go back to the OP, click on the link, and fast-forward the video to the 3:35 mark. He says, AND I QUOTE: "That's roads, and bridges, and rail systems."

Vance, I'm not convinced your being honest here. You come across as someone who may be so blindly opposed to anything Obama, or anything liberal, that you will attack anything that even remotely sounds connected to them, no matter how good they may be. What is your deal, man? Right now, we have a major interstate highway in Louisville that is shut down because of structural deficiencies, but because of people like you, securing funding for that vital artery is going to be tough. This has never been a political issue! The Republicans are choosing to make infrastructure, of all things, a political issue. Do they not want us to be able to even get to work, turn on the lights, and pour a glass of clean water? Why the hell are we even debating this?
Who is responsible for maintaining those roads? Who is responsible for maintaining those sewer systems? You honestly BELIEVE dumping another few trillion in debt on your grandkids is going to FIX things? Horse****. Like the last group of 'shovel ready' projects Sanders 'shovel' is only good for the barn. This is about paying off unions. Period. If a state has failing infrastructure then that state should be kicked in the ass, not bailed out yet AGAIN and CERTAINLY not by future generations because this generation is too corrupt and irresponsible to be accountable. I know it is a radical and foreign concept but for the love of GOD...start being responsible.
 
Who is responsible for maintaining those roads? Who is responsible for maintaining those sewer systems? You honestly BELIEVE dumping another few trillion in debt on your grandkids is going to FIX things? Horse****. Like the last group of 'shovel ready' projects Sanders 'shovel' is only good for the barn. This is about paying off unions. Period. If a state has failing infrastructure then that state should be kicked in the ass, not bailed out yet AGAIN and CERTAINLY not by future generations because this generation is too corrupt and irresponsible to be accountable. I know it is a radical and foreign concept but for the love of GOD...start being responsible.

That is why we raise taxes, fix the taxation system, simplify it, and make sure corporations pay taxes as well...
 
That is why we raise taxes, fix the taxation system, simplify it, and make sure corporations pay taxes as well...
Curb wasteful spending and you will find my position on raising taxes to pay down the debt is pretty consistent. But it starts at the local and state level. Anyone foolish enough to believe the answer can be found within the fed is blind...or doesnt give a **** about their grandkids or the debt that we are going to dump on them.
 
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