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Denver Occupy Tries to Storm Capitol - Police use pepper spray, etc.

Karl said:
Well, then, that is two of you wrong. Surprisingly and blatantly wrong. Here is the group who wants to overthrow the system.
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Especially what with all the examples we have at that. :roll:
 
1Perry said:
My position is that it is not always black and white. If those protesting were not causing problems, they had a right to be where they were. If they were causing problems then what you say could come into play. There are instances (I have no idea personally if it applies here) that officials will direct the police to dispurse legally protesting individuals.

When that is the case the blame falls squarely on the shoulders on the city official. It's why you should know your rights.
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I think we're missing each other on one thing. My one belief here is that the protesters went beyond their rights in these instances, so I agree that you have to know your rights, in this particular case and most of the "police brutality" in these OWS protests it seems pretty slam dunk obvious that we are dealing with people who don't understand that they are wrong, not that they have been wronged and as such they overestimated the scope of their rights and the limits that were reached when they broke laws.
 
The systemic violence against protesters across America is what caused this. People are sick of being jackbooted for exercising their First Amendment rights, in response to the tyrannical protest permit system.

I'm beginning to think that observers in the public have forgotten what protest even looks like. It's not up to the city to decide how long a protest can go for, as long as it remains peaceful.

I think the people in Denver crossed a line when they tried to enter the capitol building, but I also believe they were incited to do so by police brutality (requested by the mayor and even the state).
 
Temporal said:
The systemic violence against protesters across America is what caused this. People are sick of being jackbooted for exercising their First Amendment rights, in response to the tyrannical protest permit system.

I'm beginning to think that observers in the public have forgotten what protest even looks like. It's not up to the city to decide how long a protest can go for, as long as it remains peaceful.

I think the people in Denver crossed a line when they tried to enter the capitol building, but I also believe they were incited to do so by police brutality (requested by the mayor and even the state).
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They broke laws BEFORE trying to enter the capitol building, including anti-camping, sanitation, etc. They were not innocent and the thus the assembly was not peaceful. The end.
 
LaMidRighter said:
I think we're missing each other on one thing. My one belief here is that the protesters went beyond their rights in these instances, so I agree that you have to know your rights, in this particular case and most of the "police brutality" in these OWS protests it seems pretty slam dunk obvious that we are dealing with people who don't understand that they are wrong, not that they have been wronged and as such they overestimated the scope of their rights and the limits that were reached when they broke laws.
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It could be. My position is that I am not there nor do I know all the facts so I can't say.

If I had to guess I would guess that both sides have been in the wrong.
 
I think we should storm all the capitals and take control of the buildings...
 
TheDemSocialist said:
I think we should storm all the capitals and take control of the buildings...
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No thanks - I like my government to actually be able to function reasonably. My state's not too bad off with our balanced budget requirements and so forth.
 
Karl said:
There is a reasonable argument to be made to that effect. The anti-government Tea Party was embraced by the corporatists (the right), while the anti-corporate OWS is being vilified by the right (the corporatists). Coincidence?

That's not to say that capitalism is not a worthy venture, as long as it is not taken to excess. The same can be said of socialism.

The U.S. has a definite and long history of embodying both capitalism and socialism; the best of both worlds, if you will. However, as of late, the fascist component of capitalism has been raising its ugly head, as we are seeing in the police response to OWS, as well as the GOP/RWTM (Right Wing Talk Media) response to OWS.
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This makes no sense at all. Corporatism is political philosophy in which the government divides all of society into "corporations" each of which represents the interests of the members of a class, such as employers or employees or members of a profession, etc. It was the guiding philosophy of Italian fascism.

corporatism, Italian corporativismo, also called corporativism, the theory and practice of organizing society into “corporations” subordinate to the state. According to corporatist theory, workers and employers would be organized into industrial and professional corporations serving as organs of political representation and controlling to a large extent the persons and activities within their jurisdiction. However, as the “corporate state” was put into effect in fascist Italy between World Wars I and II, it reflected the will of the country’s dictator, Benito Mussolini, rather than the adjusted interests of economic groups.
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corporatism (ideology) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

A corporatist is therefore some one who subscribes to this philosophy, unless you are inventing a new word. It makes no sense to claim people on the right who complain that they want less government control over their lives, corporatists when it is people on the left, like OWS, who complain they want more government control over everyone's life and who tend to see society as divided into classes, just as the Italian fascists did, who most closely fit the definition of a supporter of corporatism.

Although there have been from time to time small, local experiments in utopian socialism here in the US, socialism has never played a role in our national life and currently does not, to the consternation of some. Socialism could refer to communal living or to government ownership of the means of production, but it has nothing to do with social insurance program like SS or Medicare or even with government funded welfare programs for the disadvantaged. It could be argued that some would like to use taxes and regulations on businesses and the wealthy to try to bring about a socialist state here, but so far all such attempts have failed.
 
LaMidRighter said:
You think showing me a picture of a bleeding criminal is going to sway me? Hardly.
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If you think my task here is to sway you, then it is not only your argument that is far off base.

My task is to show that your way of thought is the problem. Posts such as yours above only make my task easier.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Well that's just an unfortunate incident that occurred in the process of trying to dispel the crowd.

I'm sure they didn't aim at him - in fact - you can't actually aim those things accurately when fired. They're not scoped and rifled, you know.
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Tell us about the unfortunate aiming of this flash bang in Oakland:


 
Karl said:
If you think my task here is to sway you, then it is not only your argument that is far off base.

My task is to show that your way of thought is the problem. Posts such as yours above only make my task easier.
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This coming from a guy who is dismissing the illegal actions of protesters and accusing the police of the crime of brutality? Yeah, and my thoughts are flawed.:roll:
 
Josie said:
1Perry said:
Breitbart.tv » #OccupyDenver Thugs Knock Motorcycle Cop To Ground

Do I have a problem with them blocking the path of the motorcycle? No, not really. Do I have a problem with the guy that shoves it over? Absolutely. He deserves to get his ass kicked.
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Oh my gosh. I hadn't seen that video. What is WRONG with these people??
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ROFLMAO... the guy shoves the bike (wrongly, agreed, but he did nearly get his foot run over) and the cop abandons it (letting it fall over) to chase the guy down. The cop was in no way "knocked to the ground". Only the truly deluded could believe that caption after watching the video.

No one, at any time, deserves to have their ass kicked. I would like to make an exception for Andy Breitbart, but will not. Sorry, Rambo fans ;)
 
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Josie said:
TheDemSocialist said:
I think we should storm all the capitals and take control of the buildings...
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You should go to one of these protests then. You'd fit right in.
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True patriots usually do.

Last I heard, this country was founded by the people, for the people. Corporations, and corporate-bought politicians take note.

I'd go myself, but I'm busy running a business. Just don't ask if it's incorporated ;)
 
TheDemSocialist said:
I think we should storm all the capitals and take control of the buildings...
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Why? It didn't work out well for the university students in the 1960s, it won't work for something more serious. I'd prefer we keep the government functioning instead of turning into a sideshow.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Your gonna kill people for entering THEIR capital building?
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Unjustified dysfunction of government, law and order is cause for putting down the rebellion, hopefully without any casualties.
 
Karl said:
True patriots usually do.

Last I heard, this country was founded by the people, for the people. Corporations, and corporate-bought politicians take note.

I'd go myself, but I'm busy running a business. Just don't ask if it's incorporated ;)
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But...but...but...you're taking part in the corporate greed!
 
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