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The 53%: We are NOT Occupy Wall Street

PROFIT!!!??? How would the investments that Wall street make increase in value without growth in the entity that they invested? This growth is based on increased production that would be tied to increased employment.

Profit doesn't necessarily mean jobs added. In a down economy companies have been increasing profit by decreasing expenses...jobs.
 
There are some jobs, but that doesn't mean that everyone can find them. Thus is the flaw in your logic. near 10% unemployment means that we have near 90% employment. So sure, people can find jobs. But the high unemployment rate sustained during our recession does mean that even more people than normal will be UNABLE to find a job.
They could, and I don't particularly think that's a bad idea.
The main contention is the extreme mixing of State and Corporate entity. It's always been that.
Unfortunately, no one seems to know exactly what they are there for. And if the concern is with regard to the influence corporations have on congress, then maybe they should stop electing the congressmen that keep rolling in the stink with them in the first place. I offer someone 100 for a blowjob, that makes me a John. They ask me for it and take it, that makes them a whore. That exchange...they kinda need EACH OTHER to make it work and when the whores in congress control things via regulation, well...that just makes them high dollar whores...but they are still whores. Their protest probably should have been aimed a few hundred miles to the south.
 
Um... no. That's not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying I can't relate to people who let politics dictate their musical tastes. I thought I was clear before on that, but I apologize if I wasn't.

I gotcha. I think that's sort of odd too. I would think many people prefer to enjoy an artists work, and not really look behind the curtain at the wizard of oz. I don't want to know the singer I'm listening to is strung out on drugs, in and out of rehab, or up on assault charges, or believes in aliens (Tom Cruise), etc. To me it does distract from my enjoyment of their art and it can reach a threshold where it turns me off. Thats not to say politics drives what they listen to, only that if that artist tries to leverage their artistic popularity with political marketing, it's annoying and distracting and may turn some off from enjoying them as an artist. Can't be helped with some who specifically write about politics or political issues, but I think you know what I mean.

I like my artists ambigious on everything, even their artistic message! :)
 
I gotcha. I think that's sort of odd too. I would think many people prefer to enjoy an artists work, and not really look behind the curtain at the wizard of oz. I don't want to know the singer I'm listening to is strung out on drugs, in and out of rehab, or up on assault charges, or believes in aliens (Tom Cruise), etc. To me it does distract from my enjoyment of their art and it can reach a threshold where it turns me off. Thats not to say politics drives what they listen to, only that if that artist tries to leverage their artistic popularity with political marketing, it's annoying and distracting and may turn some off from enjoying them as an artist. Can't be helped with some who specifically write about politics or political issues, but I think you know what I mean.

I like my artists ambigious on everything, even their artistic message! :)

Well, for example I have been a fan of the band The Brian Jonestown Massacre for several years. Then I saw this documentary that essentially made the lead singer guy look like a complete nutcase heroin addict. Regardless of all that, I still love their music. I can't stop listening to it. Kanye West is a total douchebag, but I enjoy a couple of his songs. There is a real separation between an artist and their art and I refuse to combine the two.
 
I know of know significant business that is not always look for good candidates. Are you saying most corporations don't look for job candidates year-round?

Sure, they are always looking for canidates...that doesn't mean they are expanding their workforce.

As long as demand is down...there will be no expansion of the workforce. Companies don't go out and hire additional workers to produce the same amount of work. As of now the truth is most workers are putting in longer hours with less staff. Profits are up due to cost cutting...which means job cutting. They will not hire workers until the workers they have now cannot meet the demand of the market.

This idea that our economy is going to turn around because companies just go out and decide to hire people is false.
 
actually it's an excellent argument that will appeal to the broad majority of Americans who are still used to the notion that one may have to actually work for something.


what's nauseating is this guy:



How is that "nauseating" many industrial countries have college paid for by the gov...
 
OWS has a "main contention"? I thought it was 99%, which has nothing to do with mixing of state/corporate entities even if there were such a thing as a "Main contention".

That's what one thinks when they don't pay attention. They are claiming to be of the 99%, but that's not the main contention. That's in fact a rather pointless distinction to make. Lots of people fit into the 99%, it's nothing special. Their contention is that the government works predominately NOT for the 99%, that the entanglement of corporate entities and State have led to unfair market practices which reward large corporations predominately. That has always been the issue.
 
Unfortunately, no one seems to know exactly what they are there for. And if the concern is with regard to the influence corporations have on congress, then maybe they should stop electing the congressmen that keep rolling in the stink with them in the first place. I offer someone 100 for a blowjob, that makes me a John. They ask me for it and take it, that makes them a whore. That exchange...they kinda need EACH OTHER to make it work and when the whores in congress control things via regulation, well...that just makes them high dollar whores...but they are still whores. Their protest probably should have been aimed a few hundred miles to the south.

I really don't get how people can say they don't know what the point of the OWS movement is. To me it's blatantly clear if you pay attention to the protest itself. As for not voting for Republocrats, I agree. Support of the status quo will not change the status quo.
 
I really don't get how people can say they don't know what the point of the OWS movement is. To me it's blatantly clear if you pay attention to the protest itself. As for not voting for Republocrats, I agree. Support of the status quo will not change the status quo.
See two posts prior to yours. That has been the case since the beginning...wether its that clown or the people that say "I dont really know what we are protesting, Im just glad my generation is finally doing something"...to any of the laundry list of different groups, people, and reasons. But if it is strictly what you think it is...boy are those folks barking up the wrong tree.
 
That's what one thinks when they don't pay attention. They are claiming to be of the 99%, but that's not the main contention.

Bull****. Even pro OWS propoganda has to admit there is no real message
Danny Schechter: What Is the OWS Agenda?
Right now, as for a definitive agenda, action always speaks louder than words.
****ing with the police and breaking the law, what a movement.

That's in fact a rather pointless distinction to make.
Sure is. Why they focus on it, when it's pointless, is telling, no? The fact is that their myriad of messages make no sense, and anyone that has half a brain but WANTS to support OWS, convieniently claims that's not the "Real message". Keep up the denial and rationalization.

Their contention is that the government works predominately NOT for the 99%, that the entanglement of corporate entities and State have led to unfair market practices which reward large corporations predominately. That has always been the issue.
It's people that want some attention. Get in line. Of course, if I have to choose between an ignorant college kid without a clue, and a business person with $20K in contributions to the political process and who is bringing in jobs and pays gobs of taxes to our city, I think I can prioritze my line to put that college kid at the back. Oh wait!!!

The problem is corporate lobbying is a dead issues politically, please let them eventually settle on that as the main issue because it will mean a quick end to a huge taxpayer money sink in cleaning up after these bozos who could have been doing something productive that actually made sense.
 
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Bull****. Even pro OWS propoganda has to admit there is no real message
Danny Schechter: What Is the OWS Agenda?
Right now, as for a definitive agenda, action always speaks louder than words.
****ing with the police and breaking the law, what a movement.


Sure is. Why they focus on it, when it's pointless, is telling, no? The fact is that their myriad of messages make no sense, and anyone that has half a brain but WANTS to support OWS, convieniently claims that's not the "Real message". Keep up the denial and rationalization.


It's people that want some attention. Get in line. Of course, if I have to choose between an ignorant college kid without a clue, and a business person with $20K in contributions to the political process and who is bringing in jobs and pays gobs of taxes to our city, I think I can prioritze my line to put that college kid at the back. Oh wait!!!

You can cherry pick interviews all you want to try to make your point. But it doesn't distract from the overall fact that OWS has been and still is about the gross entanglement of State and Corporate entities.

I think most of this sort of attacks on OWS, the zealous and overbearing critique of the people in the movement, is not so much because someone made an intelligent decision about it as much as it is some had preconceived notions of what the crowd is and ran with that. It's disingenuous at best.
 
How is that "nauseating" many industrial countries have college paid for by the gov...
And many hard working U.S. citizens:

1. Pay for school they can afford rather than running up outrageous debt
2. Pay for it as they go, with you know, hard ****ing work
3. Accept the responsibility of paying off the debt they themselves promised to pay off.
4. Focus on a job and working hard rather than university.

Your response is about as equally unsettling of the stomach as the video.
 
And many hard working U.S. citizens:

1. Pay for school they can afford rather than running up outrageous debt
2. Pay for it as they go, with you know, hard ****ing work
3. Accept the responsibility of paying off the debt they themselves promised to pay off.
4. Focus on a job and working hard rather than university.

Your response is about as equally unsettling of the stomach as the video.

Sooo you didnt really answer the question.. You just put your spin on it.. While as you say "you can work hard as **** to pay it off" you still wont pay it off. Be realistic. It will take a very long time to pay it off.
But why is it "nauseating"?
 
You can cherry pick interviews all you want to try to make your point. But it doesn't distract from the overall fact that OWS has been and still is about the gross entanglement of State and Corporate entities.

I think most of this sort of attacks on OWS, the zealous and overbearing critique of the people in the movement, is not so much because someone made an intelligent decision about it as much as it is some had preconceived notions of what the crowd is and ran with that. It's disingenuous at best.

Interesting that I haven't seen the OWS crowd protesting Solyndra losses or crony capitalism in industries that these fringe groups support. Here is another one where the silence is deafening.

Jobs Panel Member Whose Solar Firm Won Loan Guarantees Raises 'Conflict Of Interest' Concerns | Fox News
 
Interesting that I haven't seen the OWS crowd protesting Solyndra losses or crony capitalism in industries that these fringe groups support. Here is another one where the silence is deafening.

Jobs Panel Member Whose Solar Firm Won Loan Guarantees Raises 'Conflict Of Interest' Concerns | Fox News

I think it all sort of goes hand in hand. The overall contention is extreme and gross mixing of State and corporate interests and that would speak to any and all such cases.
 
You can cherry pick interviews all you want to try to make your point. But it doesn't distract from the overall fact that OWS has been and still is about the gross entanglement of State and Corporate entities.
Someone reporting on OWS is cherry picking, but your own personal take on the matter isn't? Please tell me your argument rests on something more substantial, because on most other issues you don't exhibit this sort of bad argumentation. Is it because anti-authority is so near and dear to you (in the sig even) that you get a little blinded when it comes to such issues? That's pure speculation...I could understand that at least, I can't understand your defense of your cherry-picked claim of their agenda vs their own...(or lack therof)

I think most of this sort of attacks on OWS, the zealous and overbearing critique of the people in the movement, is not so much because someone made an intelligent decision about it as much as it is some had preconceived notions of what the crowd is and ran with that. It's disingenuous at best.
B.S. 99% vs 1% was not preconceived by opponents, but specifically conceived of by, and marketed by, OWS. As part of the 1%, I'm on that **** list of theirs, and saying that's disingenous in light of that, is absurd.
 
Sooo you didnt really answer the question.. You just put your spin on it.. While as you say "you can work hard as **** to pay it off" you still wont pay it off. Be realistic. It will take a very long time to pay it off.
For who? I paid off $6K in debt after 3 years. My wife paid her $30K in 4 years. Like the responsible mother****ers we are.

But why is it "nauseating"?
Protesting to get out of paying what you promised to pay back, is nauseating. Nausea is a physical response, I can only relate to you the feeling of the impending desire to throw up on people who claim such nonsense. I think the reasoning behind opposing kids that want their debt to be wiped clean, is a lot more compelling however.
 
Someone reporting on OWS is cherry picking, but your own personal take on the matter isn't? Please tell me your argument rests on something more substantial, because on most other issues you don't exhibit this sort of bad argumentation. Is it because anti-authority is so near and dear to you (in the sig even) that you get a little blinded when it comes to such issues? That's pure speculation...I could understand that at least, I can't understand your defense of your cherry-picked claim of their agenda vs their own...(or lack therof)

It came from watching the whole. Seeing what they are protesting, what they are saying. There's plenty of dumb people there and you can interview them, put up the videos to try to pain the whole movement like such. But if you view the whole, I think it becomes very obvious as to what is being protested.

B.S. 99% vs 1% was not preconceived by opponents, but specifically conceived of by, and marketed by, OWS. As part of the 1%, I'm on that **** list of theirs, and saying that's disingenous in light of that, is absurd.

No, you choose to view the protesters as dirty hippies who want something from nothing and then go from there. That's what a lot of these sorts of attacks boil down to; they have a preconceived notion of the people protesting and aim to protect that. It's not worth trying to hide, I know these forms of arguments well. They're essentially my entire argument against Boulder.
 
Interesting that I haven't seen the OWS crowd protesting Solyndra losses or crony capitalism in industries that these fringe groups support. Here is another one where the silence is deafening.

I agree. It's like losers wanting to change the rule when they are losing. It's OK to want government to wipe student debt clean and violate taxpayers up and down, it's OK to funnel money into environmental contracts because those we AGREE with, etc. But to help bring that company into our state rather than another state? Oh no, we must protest...but wait, we want those jobs, can we both kick the corporation out of our state, and keep the jobs they offer? dur.
 
I agree. It's like losers wanting to change the rule when they are losing. It's OK to want government to wipe student debt clean and violate taxpayers up and down, it's OK to funnel money into environmental contracts because those we AGREE with, etc. But to help bring that company into our state rather than another state? Oh no, we must protest...but wait, we want those jobs, can we both kick the corporation out of our state, and keep the jobs they offer? dur.

funneling taxpayer money to projects that provide jobs is absolutely NOT the same as forgiving student debt. imo, student debt should not be forgiven. these people knowingly entered into contracts and since they are college educated should have known the **** better than to get into debt so deep they can't out. the only reason i support any kind of homeowner bailout is mass foreclosure hurts others besides just the homeowners who can't pay their mortgages. pay your freaking bills.
 
To be honest, it's hard for me to relate with people who don't listen to music based on political views. I'm not a country fan, so I couldn't get into the Dixie Chicks from the get go. However, I can't think of a single musician that I like where I would stop liking simply because they had differing political beliefs. Hell, I listen to Charles Manson music every now and then and it has nothing to do with him, but with his talents as a musician.
The Dixie Chicks didn't merely disagree with the Iraq war. It was the way they disagreed with it. that's what people didn't like. Their rhetoric was over the top.
 
Profit doesn't necessarily mean jobs added. In a down economy companies have been increasing profit by decreasing expenses...jobs.

Agree so what is your answer to the original question? "Ummm...why....why exactly do corporatins or Wall Street care about jobs?"
 
I think it was idiotic for the wall street protesters to call themselves the 99% considering the fact there is a good sizable percentage that make over a 100,000 a year that the OWS would want to make pay more taxes.

The 53%: Occupy Wall Street backlash - Oct. 26, 2011

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Occupy Wall Street protesters might say they represent 99% of the nation, but there's a growing number of Americans who are making it clear they are not part of the dissident crowd.
They call themselves the 53%...as in the 53% of Americans who pay federal income taxes. And they are making their voices heard on Tumblr blogs, Twitter and Facebook pages devoted to stories of personal responsibility and work ethic.
The number originates in the estimate that roughly 47% of Americans don't pay federal income tax, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. The 53 percenters stress the fact that they are paying the taxes that support the government assistance the protesters say they want.
Umm, the reason most of the 47% aren't paying Federal Income tax is because of the Bush tax cuts. Millions of taxpayers were taken off the roles, yet even if you don't have enough deductions to bring down your taxable income you'll still pay FIT of at least 10% according to the income tax tables.

Because millions of people are taken off the rolls at the bottom, it's makes it appear as the the top are paying more when a group is expressed as a percentage of the total. But when you look at it on an individual basis they are paying less.
 
Umm, the reason most of the 47% aren't paying Federal Income tax is because of the Bush tax cuts. Millions of taxpayers were taken off the roles, yet even if you don't have enough deductions to bring down your taxable income you'll still pay FIT of at least 10% according to the income tax tables.

Because millions of people are taken off the rolls at the bottom, it's makes it appear as the the top are paying more when a group is expressed as a percentage of the total. But when you look at it on an individual basis they are paying less.

That is bull and you know it, the IRS reports actual dollars collected and the top 1% are payinng over 38% of all tax revenue collected. What is their fair share since 38% of the IRS collected taxes isn't enough? What exactly are the solutions that the OWS are proposing? I heard forgiving their student loans, $20/hour minimum wage, locking up Wall Street executives who haven't broken any laws that I am aware of?
 
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