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Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

Mickey Shane said:
I do recall The Fish Cheer. I suppose that would count.
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Do you recall the Soviet and North Vietnamese flags being flown? Cheering for the success of the glorious people's army of North Vietnam?
 
VanceMack said:
If you had a complete video of the events and not just the snipped version edited for cause you might have an answer to that. You might also inquire why the police were directed to disperse the crowds from the streets and parks. All of that is irrelevant when you are the 'peaceful protester' in question. When a police officer says you must stop...three guesses what you MUST do...(Id just say one guess because you already know the answer, but I'll give you the first two so you can rage on about your legal rights).

Refuse to comply with a police officer on a traffic stop even if you believe you are totally in the right and guess what happens.
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Perhaps a complete video will show that the officers faced a direct threat. I can't discount that. I demand that the police refrain from force -- especially non-lethal weaponry -- if at all possible, and justify that force when its used. No erring on the side of cracking heads.
 
haymarket said:
Threads like this give me reason to smile in my own firm belief that many on the right who scream the loudest about liberty and freedom are more than happy to use any excuse to put the clamps of authority and repression on those on the left who they hate and despise. And they bristle when we accuse the authoritarian right wing of having fascist tendencies. :roll:
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It also confirms that the law and order Libbos are all about law and order, until it no longer serves their purpose.
 
Frolicking Dinosaurs said:
So you are A-OK with the police flash grenading medics trying to remove an injured man? To me, this proves the police showed wanton disregard for public safety.

The police stopping media outlets from filming shows the police knew the facts were not going to support their contention that they were attacked first and took reasonable action. It also indicates that the police knew this was likely going to result in serious injuries or death and proceeded anyway.
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If the OWS'ers had left, when they were told to leave, it wouldn't have happened.
 
apdst said:
It also confirms that the law and order Libbos are all about law and order, until it no longer serves their purpose.
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That makes no sense on any level in this discussion.
 
apdst said:
If the OWS'ers had left, when they were told to leave, it wouldn't have happened.
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If the city had simply respected their right to peacefully gather, there would have been no conflict.
 
GhostlyJoe said:
Perhaps a complete video will show that the officers faced a direct threat. I can't discount that. I demand that the police refrain from force -- especially non-lethal weaponry -- if at all possible, and justify that force when its used. No erring on the side of cracking heads.
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There you go. "I demand". thats the kind of rhetoric that just makes these arguments silly. I demand. Its my right. We have a right. Im sorry...you live in a society based on law and order. the police did not arbitraily decide to go down there and start a rucus. You demand they do their job. They did. Thank God they do.

That video clip focused a lot on the second bang...but they focused on what happened AFTER the guy was already down. It wasnt the flash bang that hit him. I still believe (but of course we dont KNOW) that he was hit in the head by launched tear gas cannister. Dood was down for the count when the people came back to the police lines. They should have kept going and then the police could have dealt with the downed citizen. AFTER they left the area. If they had LEFT the area when they were told, none of the dispersants would have been used. Like I said earlier...its always fun and games...til someone gets hurt.
 
VanceMack said:
There you go. "I demand". thats the kind of rhetoric that just makes these arguments silly. I demand. Its my right. We have a right. Im sorry...you live in a society based on law and order. the police did not arbitraily decide to go down there and start a rucus. You demand they do their job. They did. Thank God they do.

That video clip focused a lot on the second bang...but they focused on what happened AFTER the guy was already down. It wasnt the flash bang that hit him. I still believe (but of course we dont KNOW) that he was hit in the head by launched tear gas cannister. Dood was down for the count when the people came back to the police lines. They should have kept going and then the police could have dealt with the downed citizen. AFTER they left the area. If they had LEFT the area when they were told, none of the dispersants would have been used. Like I said earlier...its always fun and games...til someone gets hurt.
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Of course I demand it. It's a constitutional imperative. Again, justify the force. The police serve us, not the other way around.

You say "thank God they did." But what did they prevent? What harm was the city spared?
 
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haymarket said:
Threads like this give me reason to smile in my own firm belief that many on the right who scream the loudest about liberty and freedom are more than happy to use any excuse to put the clamps of authority and repression on those on the left who they hate and despise. And they bristle when we accuse the authoritarian right wing of having fascist tendencies. :roll:
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Just like it makes us conservative types laugh when you suddenly pretend to give a **** about vets or police officers. I dont know of too many people conservative or otherwise that have said people dont have a right to protest. That right to protest doesnt mean whatever wherever and however you want. Thats a basic reality that unfortunately too many people are too stupid to understand.
 
GhostlyJoe said:
Of course I demand it. It's a constitutional imperative. Again, justify the force. The police serve us, not the other way around.
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I hope you feel all empowered and stuff now.
 
Temporal said:
There is no excuse for the police cracking a person's head open in order to disband a crowd.
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The wording of the emphasis added section of this statement by you implies INTENT to crack his head open as a method of disbanding the crowd. Can you prove this?


Shame, shame, shame on the police, and the Oakland city hall for disbanding a lawful, peaceful assembly of the people. As if it's UP to them as to whether or not the First Amendment gets honored.
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You can keep repeating peaceful all you want.... doesn't make it so.
 
Caine said:
The wording of the emphasis added section of this statement by you implies INTENT to crack his head open as a method of disbanding the crowd. Can you prove this?


You can keep repeating peaceful all you want.... doesn't make it so.
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So, if I I'm chasing my wife with a "non-lethal" knife, slip and fall, accidentally slit her throat, am I responsible for murder?:lamo
 
GhostlyJoe said:
The burden of proof is on the state.
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And so are they prohibiting them from due process?
If yes - you have a point, and it's unrelated to protests
If no - you have no point.

Cops hear the lament of the "I didn't do noth'n!" all day long. I watched cops, I know these things :p

What specific laws were being broken? if it's misdemeanor trespassing or demonstrating without a permit (in the case of Atlanta, the permit was revoked), you think that warrants tear gas and rubber bullets? Throwing firecrackers and buckets could be seen as assault. So what is throwing a flash grenade at a wounded man? Your low opinion of the protesters does not justify state violence.
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So now a trespasser is the same as a large protest? A single trespasser can clog up public buliding entryways, traffic, destroy public areas, trash up the entire place, etc., etc.? That isn't fooling anyone.
 
Temporal said:
This is systemic violence and the fact that they are bashing in people's skulls for not dispersing on their command is a clear violation of the First Amendment.
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Your comment here again implies INTENT to "bash in people's skulls" as a direct result of them failing to disperse upon command.

Can you prove to me there is intent?
 
Jryan said:
So, if I I'm chasing my wife with a "non-lethal" knife, slip and fall, accidentally slit her throat, am I responsible for murder?:lamo
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WTF is a non-lethal knife again? Im confused......

If you are going to make an off topic hypothetical that doesn't even INDIRECTLY answer the question, at least make it one that doesnt sound like the idea came from this guy.....
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Caine said:
WTF is a non-lethal knife again? Im confused......

If you are going to make an off topic hypothetical that doesn't even INDIRECTLY answer the question, at least make it one that doesnt sound like the idea came from this guy.....
sloth1-300x261.jpg
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What if I'm chasing my wife with a tear gas gun and accidentally fire it and she gets killed. Oh, see the logic jump there?
 
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin,
 
Caine said:
WTF is a non-lethal knife again? Im confused......

If you are going to make an off topic hypothetical that doesn't even INDIRECTLY answer the question, at least make it one that doesnt sound like the idea came from this guy.....
sloth1-300x261.jpg
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100-white-plastic-knife-29-p.jpg
 
Jryan said:
What if I'm chasing my wife with a tear gas gun and accidentally fire it and she gets killed. Oh, see the logic jump there?
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You still aren't answering the question. you are creating skrawmen and then lighting them on fire and cackling with insane glee.


Why do you keep avoiding the original question... even though it was not asked of you...
 
Jryan said:
What if I'm chasing my wife with a tear gas gun and accidentally fire it and she gets killed. Oh, see the logic jump there?
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Do you view your relationship with your wife as a matter of law and order? In your scenario is your wife a raving lunatic screaming in your face? Did somehow your marriage license grant you the right to final authority in matters of law and is she openly defying you? Then yes...if you are acting under your legal mandate and as a course of her actions you are forced to maintain control and she dies...yes...you are legally cleared.

Hmmmm...maybe NOT comparable scenarios after all huh?
 
VanceMack said:
Do you view your relationship with your wife as a matter of law and order? In your scenario is your wife a raving lunatic screaming in your face? Did somehow your marriage license grant you the right to final authority in matters of law and is she openly defying you? Then yes...if you are acting under your legal mandate and as a course of her actions you are forced to maintain control and she dies...yes...you are legally cleared.

Hmmmm...maybe NOT comparable scenarios after all huh?
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So you are saying, if we use non-lethal force and someone "accidentally" dies, this is okay...
 
Swit said:
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin,
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The most misused quote of all time...but by all means...go to a theater and scream FIRE and then tell the responding officers...its OK...Im just exercising my liberty and rights.
 
VanceMack said:
The most misused quote of all time...but by all means...go to a theater and scream FIRE and then tell the responding officers...its OK...Im just exercising my liberty and rights.
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A pathetic argument who I know thinks the rest of the constitution is the highest law in the land, with the exception of #7.
 
StillBallin75 said:
100-white-plastic-knife-29-p.jpg
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Umm... Okay?

Your coming in to defend a completely off topic and irrelevant strawman created as a dodgy reply to a direct question on where the intent was to "bash in people's skulls" asked to a yet DIFFERENT poster than the one who created the strawman in the first place...


You folks really don't like to debate much do you?
 
Temporal said:
Via social networks:

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There is no excuse for this kind of police brutality, at all. If a protestor did this to a police officer, they would be thrown in jail and likely receive a stiff sentence. Yet the system is allowed to perpetuate violence against citizens.

I'm all in favor of peaceful protest, but eventually you have to fight back when you are faced with systemic violence. There is no excuse for the police cracking a person's head open in order to disband a crowd.

Shame, shame, shame on the police, and the Oakland city hall for disbanding a lawful, peaceful assembly of the people. As if it's UP to them as to whether or not the First Amendment gets honored.
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There is if a cop feels like his personal safety is threatened.

I cant say this enough: If they would have simply complied with police orders, no one would have gotten hurt. It ain't rocket science.
 
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