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Jamie Hubley, Gay 15-Year-Old Ottawa, Canada Teen Commits Suicide

Your Star said:
Not liberal ideology, just comprehensive sex education, and free access to mental health professionals, which would cut down on all suicides, not just LGBT suicides.
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Yes liberal ideology.

Now then, I do agree that all kids should have access to equal protections.
 
Wake said:
Yes liberal ideology.

Now then, I do agree that all kids should have access to equal protections.
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Proper sex education is not liberal ideology, just like proper science, or math education is not attached to an ideology, it just needs to be taught. And providing more mental health professionals in schools like I said, would not only help LGBT students, who do need help because they may be bullied at school, but they also be alienated at home because of parents/family who thing homosexuality/transgenderism is wrong, but it would also help out the whole student population. Of course, we would have to stop cutting spending for education.
 
Maybe we should just have "Affirmative Action for Esteem". Random commercials can come on with a huge picture of a thumbs-up with a caption like "Hang in there, queer".

As you can plainly tell, this is a non-answer because this thread is about a non-factor. People commit suicide for many reasons, and I won't give attention to one sect.

I wouldn't condone the federal government giving out billions to people who are in danger of committing suicide for financial reasons. I sure as hell won't condone any sort of legislation for this. If you're gay, broke, a minority, or whatever - and you wanna kill yourself, just do it. I don't sympathize with cowards.
 
After aboriginals, gays have the highest suicide rate as a demographic.

When they talk about "curbing" suicide, it has more to do with education, prevention, and intervention, not "making straight people's lives more difficult". What a dumb comment.

In terms of legalities gay rights have come a long way, but social consequences of being out of the closet (or an obvious, effeminate gay) are still steep for a lot of young people in many different communities. The isolation, ostracization, and violence that gay people face can drive them to taking drastic action to harm themselves.

Gays are still hated in most areas. I currently live in the most liberal Canadian city, and there are still news reports of gay bashings in the city center. The social problems are far from fixed.
 
Gipper said:
Maybe we should just have "Affirmative Action for Esteem". Random commercials can come on with a huge picture of a thumbs-up with a caption like "Hang in there, queer".

As you can plainly tell, this is a non-answer because this thread is about a non-factor. People commit suicide for many reasons, and I won't give attention to one sect.

I wouldn't condone the federal government giving out billions to people who are in danger of committing suicide for financial reasons. I sure as hell won't condone any sort of legislation for this. If you're gay, broke, a minority, or whatever - and you wanna kill yourself, just do it. I don't sympathize with cowards.
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If you were a parent, your attitude would be an awful one to have. Parents are the first line of defense against all teen suicides. Kids who commit suicide are not cowards. They are depressed and hopeless. All the joy has left their lives. They are in need of medication, perhaps...definitely a proactive response from those who love them...and support from their school counselors and peers.

Kids don't commit suicide in a vacuum. Somebody(ies) dropped the ball.
 
Temporal, I have a question.

Does "view homosexuality as a sin for religious reasons" equate to "hate" in your book?

Because based on my experience, many liberals seem to think that way.
 
I think you addressed the problem. The gays who are "obvious" and "effeminate" are the ones getting random ass-beatings. Make no mistake about it; gay-bashers are cowards. Having said that, chances are great that they were antagonized. There is no excuse for running around, talking with a lisp, wearing tied-up pink t-shirts, and sporting a "flock of seagulls" hairdo.

Society is what it is - they judge people. Bummer. They do it. If a pretty girl walks out in a mini-skirt and a halter top, she's assumed to be a slut. If a black man walks by with a wife-beater and a do-rag, they're going to hold on to their wallet tightly. Welcome to the world.

If you want to express yourself, feel free. I won't mind. However, someone else may, and you've done nothing but bait them.
 
Mr. Invisible said:
Did you read carefully what I wrote?

"how do you think we can attempt to curb the amount, if not completely end, teen suicides, especially among those of the LGBT community?"
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I'll ask again. Why especially among the LGBT community?
 
1Perry said:
I'll ask again. Why especially among the LGBT community?
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I would guess that it is probably because he believes that teens in the LGBT community have a higher rate of suicides. If that is true, I have no numbers for it, it would make sense to focus attempts to curb suicides where there is a higher rates. However, he never said to only focus on the LGBT suicides either.
 
Maggie said:
If you were a parent, your attitude would be an awful one to have. Parents are the first line of defense against all teen suicides. Kids who commit suicide are not cowards. They are depressed and hopeless. All the joy has left their lives. They are in need of medication, perhaps...definitely a proactive response from those who love them...and support from their school counselors and peers.

Kids don't commit suicide in a vacuum. Somebody(ies) dropped the ball.
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I doubt they are "depressed and hopeless". People have the power to make things how they are. I played baseball from T-ball to varsity. I had plenty of friends. I was captain of my high school Quiz Bowl team that was a state finalist 3 of 4 years. I chose to make things happen. If you're going to be one of those brooding, dark, artist-type who becomes all antisocial and depressing, it's a conscious choice. I think very rarely can you blame it on hormones or chemicals.

Maybe if you just have completely crappy parents your path gets more difficult. Mine divorced when I was 6, and my mom was never around between work and a social life. I just didn't have a desire to give up on life and force myself into misery. And yes, people who do that often do so by their own hand.
 
1Perry said:
You can't. Why would you single out the LGBT community?
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They have a higher suicide rate than the general population and LGBT kids are 4x more like to commit suicide than their peers so it's less him singling them and more statistics singling them out. And yeah, it can be curbed.
 
Wake said:
Temporal, I have a question.

Does "view homosexuality as a sin for religious reasons" equate to "hate" in your book?

Because based on my experience, many liberals seem to think that way.
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It depends on how they apply those passages to their lives.

Sin is God's department, not man's. If someone is sinning in your eyes, it's really none of your business to judge them... but people turn it into hate, using Biblical passages all the time. Worry about your own karma.

Incidentally, I think many Christians cling too tightly to Leviticus, all the while ignoring plenty of other passages that warrant death which we now ignore in the modern world. These passages are ones of convenience now. It lets people defer responsibility for having ignorant and bigoted views, despite being offered a wealth of knowledge from people who can show them a different perspective.

Bigotry can be summed up as rigid intolerance, no matter how much information to the contrary is available. If people want to turn the concept of sin into an excuse to hate, then yes they are bigots, and yes they are hateful.
 
theplaydrive said:
They have a higher suicide rate than the general population and LGBT kids are 4x more like to commit suicide than their peers so it's less him singling them and more statistics singling them out. And yeah, it can be curbed.
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Curbed, yes. Ended, no.
 
Gipper said:
Um...nature? It's innate.
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Really? So if I have a kid, don't talk to him and throw him out into the world when he's 14, he'll just know that he has the power to "make things how they are"?
 
theplaydrive said:
They have a higher suicide rate than the general population and LGBT kids are 4x more like to commit suicide than their peers so it's less him singling them and more statistics singling them out. And yeah, it can be curbed.
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While my gut feeling would be that their rate is higher, I've found no study that backs that belief. Then one would have to be able to break it down to those who committed suicide because they were bullied and those who were simply depressed.

In the end though, IMO the reasons are all the same gay or straight.
 
theplaydrive said:
Really? So if I have a kid, don't talk to him and throw him out into the world when he's 14, he'll just know that he has the power to "make things how they are"?
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Do it and find out.
 
1Perry said:
While my gut feeling would be that their rate is higher, I've found no study that backs that belief.
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Where did you look? Because a simple search takes you to several studies. Here's one:
http://www.sprc.org/library/SPRC_LGBT_Youth.pdf

Then one would have to be able to break it down to those who committed suicide because they were bullied and those who were simply depressed.
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No, that would be required for a study examining the causes of suicide. We're talking about studies that examine who commits suicide not why they do it.

In the end though, IMO the reasons are all the same gay or straight.
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Considering that lgbt youth reported bullying more than straight kids and reported feeling "less safe" in their schools than straight kids, I would argue that while it's the same reasons sometimes, oftentimes it's directly related to social responses to their sexuality for the lgbt kids.
 
Maybe you should use yours. It's no mystery what people can do to make themselves happy. Socialization, sports, extracirricular activities, friends, other random things. If you spend most of your free time alone in your bedroom, you have nobody but yourself to blame when nobody gives a damn about your slit wrists and your lame ass poetry and paintings.
 
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theplaydrive said:
Where did you look? Because a simple search takes you to several studies. Here's one:
http://www.sprc.org/library/SPRC_LGBT_Youth.pdf
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That article states that they are not able to conclude that LGB youths committ suicide at a higher rate. They note that they have a higher rate of suicidal ideation.

No, that would be required for a study examining the causes of suicide. We're talking about studies that examine who commits suicide not why they do it.
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I'll look for a study that actually does this. Though as I said, I won't be surprised if that is the case.

Considering that lgbt youth reported bullying more than straight kids and reported feeling "less safe" in their schools than straight kids, I would argue that while it's the same reasons sometimes, oftentimes it's directly related to social responses to their sexuality for the lgbt kids.
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But kids are hassled because they are shy and reserved and can't approach those of the opposite sex. I knew a kid that was harrassed because he let it be known that he would be waiting until he was married.
 
Mr. Invisible said:
I think that this only shows why we need to create strict rules and enforce them when it comes to bullying, especially when it comes to matters such as these.
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I think that you are assuming such tragic teenage angst over sexual orientation is entirely the product of bullying and social antipathy towards gays. This is not likely the case.

Let's face it. There is something existentially absurd about the gay condition. Indeed, even the term "homosexual" is an oxymoron. For many such adolescents, what their true sexual orientation actually is may not be entirely clear considering the stormy effect of hormones on the brain at that age. For an adolescent whose innate psychobiological predisposition puts them somewhere on the cusp between being gay or being straight, the experience must be unsettling to say the least.
 
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