• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Gm moves to China

Tucker Case said:
You know what, after reading this post I realize that we agree on a lot more than we disagree on. And the portion above is actually a very good point. I also do not want people to think that the bailout was a good idea, so it does make sense to remind people of it's faults and flaws. This wouldn't be dwelling on the past so much as it is an attempt to prevent the same mistakes in the future.
Click to expand...

I have found out that if people are willing to take the time to discuss differences they find out in the end that there differences aren't as big as they originally seemed. D.C. prefers accusing the other side of being demons. Our differences end up being not a major one.

I hear you on that. It's a pain in the ass. I do a good portion of my shopping online because of it.
Click to expand...

I often times start there.

I recommend Bunn for coffee makers:
Click to expand...

I must admit.........I generally just tell the wife I need a new coffee pot when the old one messes up (we have really hard water and they clog). I'm too lazy to use the filtered water we have in the fridge. LOL I'll look into the Bunn next time.

[qoute]I'd say to look for a Hein Werner floor jack. I believe they are still made in the USA, but they are a bit pricey. [/quote]

I did see those but like I said, the ones I saw were way more jack than what I needed.

But I have trouble finding a lot of things too. I still can't find an American-made TV. When I encounter situations where I can't buy American made, I make sure to purchase the foreign made product from a locally owned store (as opposed to some big box store). For example, in the Chicago area we are lucky enough to have a large locally-owned appliance store called Abt Electronics that is phenomenal (They have incredible service and they employ more than a few friends of mine). I get most of my appliances and electronics from there (like my Bunn coffee maker :)). Some are made in the USA, some aren't (Like I said, I can't find a TV made in the USA anymore).
Click to expand...

We still have a local television store. I like to go there just for the ambiance since they've been there for years. LOL

Another nice thing about shopping local is that I get to know my local retailers and they can sometimes help me find products made in the USA, which I will then purchase from them so that I get to do my part in two different ways. Not to mention that you get such superior service in most cases. Hell, I've even bartered with some local businesses where I did some carpentry or other construction work for them in exchange for products and services. You can't do that with corporations.
Click to expand...

I've found that most local retailers are pleased to work with you on price if you find it lower online. I'm always willing to pay a bit of a premium to buy local also as I have somewhere to take it if there is a problem.

But as I said earlier, we seem to agree more than disagree. I just wanted to focus on the things you said that really caught my attention.
Click to expand...

Thumbs up!!
 
1Perry said:
I have found out that if people are willing to take the time to discuss differences they find out in the end that there differences aren't as big as they originally seemed. D.C. prefers accusing the other side of being demons. Our differences end up being not a major one.
Click to expand...

Very true. Hell, I'm guilty of forgetting myself and becoming part of the problem from time to time.



I've found that most local retailers are pleased to work with you on price if you find it lower online. I'm always willing to pay a bit of a premium to buy local also as I have somewhere to take it if there is a problem.
Click to expand...

The service definitely makes up for any extra cost most of the time. And they will work with you on price, which is also nice.

And my local retailers get a faithful client who gives them as much free word of mouth advertising as possible for it.
 
Tucker Case said:
You are the one misusing the word "loan" though.

True statement: GM used funds that they received from the government's investment in the company to pay back the loans that they received from the government.

False statement: [GM payed back] one gov loan with another gov loan.


It's important for us to use the right words in this context because the incorrect words that you chose to use imply that we will eventually receive payment from GM to pay back the funds that they used to pay off their loans, which is not true.

Loans would get paid back. The funds that they used will not get paid back. The only way to recoup those funds is by selling off the investment that created them. In order to recoup as much as possible, the stocks that they were used on need to increase in value.

It's a ssimple as that. Your false statement is not only misleading, it also has a totally different method of recuperation.
Click to expand...

How much in subsidies is GM receiving to produce the Volt?
 
Tucker Case said:
That is false. They do not blur, they aren't even remotely close to each other.



We have the means of helping ourselves. I'm a personal responsibility type of guy. When faced with a ****ty situation, I work toward improving it. Hyperbole doesn't do squat to fix a ****ty situation, it only makes it worse.



Just because you can use some form of irrational justification for butchering the English language doesn't mean you should employ that irrational justification in order to butcher the English language.

You are engaging in the very same nonsense that you claim to oppose when you decide to use a word incorrectly just to pretend you are making a valid point.
Click to expand...

Let’s see if we can find some common ground here. Will you agree that no matter what the exact word, we taxpayers are on the hook? Now I know you are kind of a word Nazi and “on the hook” doesn’t mean we are fish with a hook in our mouth ok. Try to focus, does GM owe us money or not?
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Let’s see if we can find some common ground here. Will you agree that no matter what the exact word, we taxpayers are on the hook? Now I know you are kind of a word Nazi and “on the hook” doesn’t mean we are fish with a hook in our mouth ok. Try to focus, does GM owe us money or not?
Click to expand...

Oh God! U used the word NAZI!!! Do u not realize all the doors u opened for this word bozo! (and just because I used the word "bozo" does not make me afraid of clowns...at least not ALL clowns...)
 
The reason GM is making hybrids in China is the same reason Toyota makes the Prius in China; the irony of their eco friendly cars, is they are horrible on the environment to make and guess what? China has very few regulations in regards to harmful pollution. Toyota is beginning to address this problem by making the factories that make the hybrid more eco friendly and are slowly moving operations out of China (as of now the Prius is the only car Toyota makes in China) and into places such as Japan, Toronto, and Mississippi. However, GM and Ford both have been doing this for quite some time and I find it very annoying. The only way Ford was able to do so well the past few years in the face of Honda and Toyota (which btw make most of their vehicles worldwide pre-assembly to finish US and Canada) was by shipping jobs to Mexico and China. Very annoying indeed. I say we should have let GM totally fail. Would have hurt Michigan but helped out my area immensely.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Let’s see if we can find some common ground here. Will you agree that no matter what the exact word, we taxpayers are on the hook?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. The issue is about how we can get off the hook. Misrepresenting a government investment as a loan implies that there is an entirely different method for getting off of the hook.

A government loan is not necessarily a stupid idea. It has a clearly-defined recuperation schedule an provides profit via interest.

A government investment is another story entirely.

In order to recuperate our losses we actualy need to see the company become profitable and the stock values rise.
 
ThinktownUSA said:
Oh God! U used the word NAZI!!! Do u not realize all the doors u opened for this word bozo! (and just because I used the word "bozo" does not make me afraid of clowns...at least not ALL clowns...)
Click to expand...

Expecting people to have a grade-school-level understanding of the words they choose to use doesn't make me a "word bozo".

Expecting someone who named themselves "thinktownUSA" to understand the reason why word choice is important does make me a bozo, though. I really should recognize irony when it's presented so blatantly.
 
Tucker Case said:
Absolutely. The issue is about how we can get off the hook. Misrepresenting a government investment as a loan implies that there is an entirely different method for getting off of the hook.

A government loan is not necessarily a stupid idea. It has a clearly-defined recuperation schedule an provides profit via interest.

A government investment is another story entirely

In order to recuperate our losses we actualy need to see the company become profitable and the stock values rise.
Click to expand...

Ok good enough, we basically agree, it was like pullin teeth though! :lol:
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Ok good enough, we basically agree, it was like pullin teeth though! :lol:
Click to expand...

It was like pulling teeth, but it wouldn't have been had you actually read what I had written numerous times in this thread.

For example, let's look at the correction I made for you in post 106:

Tucker Case said:
Correction: We received payment for a government loan with money that came from a government investment.

It was actually smart of GM to do this because they don't pay interest on the government investment money (they'll actually earn interest on it), but they do pay interest on the loan. One harms the profit margin, the other doesn't.
Click to expand...

As you can see from the above compared to post 133, my stance has remained identical. It is only your comprehension of my stance that has changed.

I won't hold your failure to comprehend what I had written against you, though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom