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Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

poweRob said:
It's so easy to sit back and demand evidence then play passive dismisser. I kind of am doubting the sincerity you may have for wanting to know anything but rather believe your will is to just sit back and toss stones. Anyways, watch this. Kind of sums it up nicely I think.
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I made this arguement years ago. I was dismissed pretty much because it was Clinton that signed it's demise. The problem is it could have been passed already but instead we got the garbage that is Dodd/Frank.
 
poweRob said:
Why? You being a conservative and all I thought you were of the mind that they deserve special attention and hoisted on a pedestal more than others.
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If you can find where I ever made that arguement I'll own up to it.
 
1Perry said:
I made this arguement years ago. I was dismissed pretty much because it was Clinton that signed it's demise. The problem is it could have been passed already but instead we got the garbage that is Dodd/Frank.
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meh. clinton failed on many levels like allowing NAFTA and WTO crap to go forward to signing the bill that Phil Graham poisoned with the Graham, Leach, Blilely Act that repealed the Glass/Steagal Act to raiding SS and using it's funding to declare the budget balanced. I'm no friend of Bill.
 
1Perry said:
If you can find where I ever made that arguement I'll own up to it.
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nah... I'm just chiding you as much as you are me.
 
poweRob said:
It's so easy to sit back and demand evidence then play passive dismisser. I kind of am doubting the sincerity you may have for wanting to know anything but rather believe your will is to just sit back and toss stones. Anyways, watch this. Kind of sums it up nicely I think.

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I get the fact that certain derivatives are harmful, others however are critical. For example what would farmers do without being able to lock in prices with future contracts. breaking up Glass-Stegall was a mistake of the Clinton administration. Regulation was poor under Greenspan, true. Enron brought on Sarbanes Oxley which was not mentioned. The crisis has brought on Dodd-Frank which will take time to get implemented. Fannie, Freddie and the FHA are still out there creating future bad mortgages. not sure that was covered.

The country has been on a downward spiral for thirty years. It has been held aloft by increasing public and private debt. The piece forgets to mention that people were using the inflated housing prices to turn their houses into piggy banks, living beyond their means through borrowing.

Life is hard, try living in a third world nation with the skills of many in that protest and find out just how hard life can be.

Just seems that in these difficult times it is easier to blame some scapegoat and say he/she is stealing than find a way to pull ourselves up.

Again not sure what these people are hoping for as an endgame. Would they be happier if a corporation like GE set up headquarters in Europe or Asia where their markets are growing?

Not sure if they want a chance to climb the ladder of success or are content if others get knocked down a few rungs.
 
washunut said:
I get the fact that certain derivatives are harmful, others however are critical. For example what would farmers do without being able to lock in prices with future contracts.
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Farmers aren't the problem. It's those bidding on wheat that don't even actually know what it looks like that is the problem.

breaking up Glass-Stegall was a mistake of the Clinton administration.
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He didn't do it alone.

Regulation was poor under Greenspan, true. Enron brought on Sarbanes Oxley which was not mentioned. The crisis has brought on Dodd-Frank which will take time to get implemented. Fannie, Freddie and the FHA are still out there creating future bad mortgages. not sure that was covered.
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Too bad D.C. has completely forgotten that Sarbanes/Oxley is even on the books.

I'm not sure what the actual message is either but so far outside of a few space heads, I've not seen too much to complain about.
 
1Perry;1059859977 Too bad D.C. has completely forgotten that Sarbanes/Oxley is even on the books..[/QUOTE said:
If you ever worked at a corporation you would know that this is alive and well.
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washunut said:
I get the fact that certain derivatives are harmful, others however are critical. For example what would farmers do without being able to lock in prices with future contracts. breaking up Glass-Stegall was a mistake of the Clinton administration. Regulation was poor under Greenspan, true. Enron brought on Sarbanes Oxley which was not mentioned. The crisis has brought on Dodd-Frank which will take time to get implemented. Fannie, Freddie and the FHA are still out there creating future bad mortgages. not sure that was covered.

The country has been on a downward spiral for thirty years. It has been held aloft by increasing public and private debt. The piece forgets to mention that people were using the inflated housing prices to turn their houses into piggy banks, living beyond their means through borrowing.
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That was Greenspan who was constantly telling everyone to "tap the equity in your home."

washunut said:
Life is hard, try living in a third world nation with the skills of many in that protest and find out just how hard life can be.

Just seems that in these difficult times it is easier to blame some scapegoat and say he/she is stealing than find a way to pull ourselves up.
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Perhaps. But this comment seems to scapegoat trying to improve where we live by comparing us to third world. We can and should always be looking to better things where we are and dismiss comparatives to anyone but ourselves as to whether or not we are getting better don't you think?

washunut said:
Again not sure what these people are hoping for as an endgame. Would they be happier if a corporation like GE set up headquarters in Europe or Asia where their markets are growing?
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Don't think it matters where their headquarters are if they offshore the proceeds anyways. Even though I'd like to have their HQ's here, personally, if I had to choose, I'd choose their manufacturing over their HQ's every day of the week and on Sundays.
 
washunut said:
All kidding aside I have not yet grasped what this is really all about. In my mind, if these folks are against what has been going on in Washington and are not partisans in disguise, then the message here would be somewhat similar to the fiscal points of the tea party. If not, why not?
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They are similar to the tea party, they just have different priorities.
 
poweRob said:
That was Greenspan who was constantly telling everyone to "tap the equity in your home."

Greenspan managed the regulatory agency that allowed for this but it was up to individual homeowners to take out these second mortgages. Most people could not tell you who Greenspan was.



Perhaps. But this comment seems to scapegoat trying to improve where we live by comparing us to third world. We can and should always be looking to better things where we are and dismiss comparatives to anyone but ourselves as to whether or not we are getting better don't you think?

All I am doing is being truthful and comparing wages and skills in manufacturing. A worker in a third world nation working in a factory may make $2/ hour. In the U.S. with similar productivity the rate may be something like $12-17/ hour and if they get benefits something like $30/ hour.


Don't think it matters where their headquarters are if they offshore the proceeds anyways. Even though I'd like to have their HQ's here, personally, if I had to choose, I'd choose their manufacturing over their HQ's every day of the week and on Sundays.
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That is the problem. First you want "jobs", but do not care if a company moves thousands of jobs that pay very well. Seems counterproductive to me. To talk about which you would choose is disingenuous as one has nothing to do with the other.
 
"Originally Posted by washunut
All kidding aside I have not yet grasped what this is really all about. In my mind, if these folks are against what has been going on in Washington and are not partisans in disguise, then the message here would be somewhat similar to the fiscal points of the tea party. If not, why not?"

Does the location of the occupation being on Wall Street do anything for you? It's not on Main Street in Podunk. What is Wall Street synonomous with. Wealth, greed, arrogance, bank bailouts, gov't interference, etc. Perhaps the subliminal message in the location of the protest is too subtle for you.. I realize that all manner of organizations will attempt to hijack the occupation with their own messages and agendas, but so far that has not worked.. It is a protest of business per usual on Wall Street to the detriment of the citizens of the country. Demonstrate your strength in numbers and perhaps violence will not be necessary. I don't think Wall Street will pay any attention due to arrogance, but "hope springs eternal."
 
Caine said:
Wow... Troll much?
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Trolling is a job for the police, and their syconphantic supporters in the rightwing

Daily Kos: Conservative Magazine Brags of its Agent Provocateur's Role in Provoking Police Action in D.C. (NEW)

The American Spectator admits to being involved in the precipitation of violence at the Air and Space Museum as a means of discrediting the Occupy Movement.


It has been openly reporting about its "plants" among the protesters and their actions to get certain things to occur. Included in this, today, was the presence of - and central role played by - Patrick Howley, its Assistant Editor, in sparking the police reaction and violence.
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The Spectator removed Howleys article out of embarrassment, but there's a pic of Howley at the event
Howley-possible.jpg


Howley-Side-By.jpg
 
Caine said:
There seems to be a disagreement between different groups on whether the police "led" them onto the bridge or not. I'll stick with respectable police officers before I'll believe a mob of protesters, especially when those protesters all don't have the same story either......... who to believe?

For you, its whichever story makes the police look the worse......


Now go back to your cave, troll.
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Some people will always believe the cops, no matter how absurd their lies are, and deny what their lying eyes tell them

At 0:30 thru 0:40 you can see the protesters walking only on the walkway, while cars pass by unobstructed on the roadway.
From 0:40 thru about 1:00 you can see the cops lead the protesters onto the roadway



But of course, you will deny what is clearly visible
 
washunut said:
I get the fact that certain derivatives are harmful, others however are critical. For example what would farmers do without being able to lock in prices with future contracts.
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In that case, you don't get the facts

Commodity futures are not derivatives
 
Moderator's Warning:
Let's ton this down some and not make accusations of trolling and such. If you feel a post violates the rules, just report it and then ignore it.
 
poweRob said:
To be fair, there are tea partiers out there marching with OWS. IMO the more legitimate ones that are fiscally oriented. Lot of Ron Paul types there.
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Thanks for correcting my thoughts, PoweRob. I was wrong, I admit it and am sorry for misleading anyone in regard to it. It was not intentional.
 
Catawba said:
They are similar to the tea party, they just have different priorities.
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This is the way I see it and if people really wanted to make a difference and not just play politics they would take advantage of it. The OWS and The Tea Party at least on the surface overlaps quite a bit. Where they differ is in the solution after the fact. That's a major diference but still we'll never get there without changes to start with.

If someone really cared about this they would get the two together with the understanding that they could go their seperate ways after they had enacted changes. Both are upset with D.C. catering to Wall Street. OWS at least as far as I can tell, and that is hard to tell because there is no cohesive position yet, but they seem to feel that the government should do more for main street where the Tea Party feels that the government needs to leave people alone.

IMO there is room for both if we could get Washington to quit sucking at the teat of Wall Street.
 
Caine said:
Thanks for proving me right........

You know... that protesters always accuse police of being with whatever cause they are against......
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LOL!!

Only the police syncophants could this proves anything about the police when it was about a rightwing agitator who was caught in a fraud

And funny how you never said that the protesters always accuse the police of always being with whatever cause they are against. It sounds like that was made up for convenience sakes.
 
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