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Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

Thunder said:
what...you don't think Jesus would let someone die in the street even if he had the means to help him?

;)
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We all know Jesus'message was clear: We are not our brother's keeper. It is survivial of the fittest. He said don't feed the hungry, throw the first stone, bring no compasion to the law. Let them die.




:coffeepap
 
jasonxe said:
Im kinda mixed. He had all the capabilities to get insurance but he didn't. Now we pay for it when something bad happens because he thought he was invincible. Of course, he should get treated so he doesn't die but doesn't anybody feel at least a bit upset of his decision?
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Sure. But we know in advance it will happen. Are we any more responsible collectively for not planning for it? Leaving ad hock ,assures prices will be higher, we'll all paid for it, and likely more than we have had we apporcahed this with some sort of plan. Isn't not planing also irresponsible?
 
nota bene said:
No. Not a bunch of people. Two people. Two clods. Only two.
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Deosn't matter that much. It is an indictment that anyoen in the group would think this way. That is shocking enough on its own. Sure, we have people who we should question in all groups, and they don't represent the entire group, but that such thinking would be spoken out loud at all by anyone is damning. And largely something I think reasonable people would want to denounce and stear clear of.
 
Boo Radley said:
We all know Jesus'message was clear: We are not our brother's keeper. It is survivial of the fittest. He said don't feed the hungry, throw the first stone, bring no compasion to the law. Let them die.


:coffeepap
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You'll have to direct me to where He said that governments were responsible for caring for the needy.

Or if that's too difficult, perhaps you can tell me which government(s) that funded Mother Theresa's work with the poorest of the poor on the streets of Calcutta.

Just FYI, what Jesus called for was individual compassion and acts of charity...not organizations. Calls to conscience are always individual and, so far as I can tell, beyond either the scope or hope of any government.
 
nota bene said:
You'll have to direct me to where He said that governments were responsible for caring for the needy.

Or if that's too difficult, perhaps you can tell me which government(s) that funded Mother Theresa's work with the poorest of the poor on the streets of Calcutta.

Just FYI, what Jesus called for was individual compassion and acts of charity...not organizations. Calls to conscience are always individual and, so far as I can tell, beyond either the scope or hope of any government.
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if you are saying that Jesus would have been perfectly fine with governments allowing sick people to die, you are very wrong.
 
nota bene said:
You'll have to direct me to where He said that governments were responsible for caring for the needy.

Or if that's too difficult, perhaps you can tell me which government(s) that funded Mother Theresa's work with the poorest of the poor on the streets of Calcutta.

Just FYI, what Jesus called for was individual compassion and acts of charity...not organizations. Calls to conscience are always individual and, so far as I can tell, beyond either the scope or hope of any government.
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Try Romans.

But understand, people are governments and governments consist of people. We the people, of the people, by the people, for the people, make decisions. Government is not divorced from our will.
 
Boo Radley said:
Try Romans.

But understand, people are governments and governments consist of people. We the people, of the people, by the people, for the people, make decisions. Government is not divorced from our will.
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Please direct me to where I need to look in Romans. I'm no scholar. Is this where Jesus says,
"We are not our brother's keeper. It is survivial of the fittest. He said don't feed the hungry, throw the first stone, bring no compasion to the law. Let them die"?

This is what you've claimed. I'm going to be disappointed and regard you as dishonest if you can't cite chapter and verse.
 
nota bene said:
Please direct me to where I need to look in Romans. I'm no scholar. Is this where Jesus says,
"We are not our brother's keeper. It is survivial of the fittest. He said don't feed the hungry, throw the first stone, bring no compasion to the law. Let them die"?

This is what you've claimed. I'm going to be disappointed and regard you as dishonest if you can't cite chapter and verse.
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Wow, is someone actually suggesting that Jesus was a Libertarian who believed folks should pull themselves up by their bootstraps or die on the street?
 
Boo Radley said:
Deosn't matter that much. It is an indictment that anyoen in the group would think this way. That is shocking enough on its own. Sure, we have people who we should question in all groups, and they don't represent the entire group, but that such thinking would be spoken out loud at all by anyone is damning. And largely something I think reasonable people would want to denounce and stear clear of.
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Oh, I see. You acknowledge, having listened to the audio, that it wasn't an entire crowd of tea-partiers who shouted, "Let him die!" (In fact, two men said only "Yeah!")

Now what matters is that two individuals, whom we don't know anything about except that they were in the audience of this Republican Presidential debate, said this. The fact that they did, even though we don't know who they were or their ages or political affiliation, is an indictment of the entire Tea Party. Because one of two individuals are always representative of entire groups, and there's no possibility at all that their crass behavior was owned solely by them. :roll:
 
nota bene said:
Please direct me to where I need to look in Romans. I'm no scholar. Is this where Jesus says,
"We are not our brother's keeper. It is survivial of the fittest. He said don't feed the hungry, throw the first stone, bring no compasion to the law. Let them die"?

This is what you've claimed. I'm going to be disappointed and regard you as dishonest if you can't cite chapter and verse.
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Do you believe that is what I claimed? No. I clear suggest we are our brother's keeper, feed the hungry, don't throw the first stone, and bring compassion to the law. Don't let them die. Now all of this would require a larger read, like the entire bible.

Let me start youn off:

Galatians 6:2 ESV / 18 helpful votes
Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

What Does the Bible Say About My Brothers Keeper?

"If one of your countrymen becomes poor and sells some of his property, his nearest relative is to come and redeem what his countryman has sold. . . . If one of your countrymen becomes poor and is unable to support himself among you, help him as you would an alien or a temporary resident, so he can continue to live among you. . . . If one of your countrymen becomes poor among you and sells himself to you, do not make him work as a slave." Leviticus 25:25, 35, 39

"On the contrary: If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.'" Romans 12:20
"For Macedonia and Achaia were pleased to make a contribution for the poor among the saints in Jerusalem." Romans 15:26

Bible: Caring for and serving the poor

Related Bible Verses

John 8:7 (KJV)
“ So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

"Cast The First Stone" In The Bible: John 8:7 - Gospel.com




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"Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble."
1 Peter 3:8


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"A despairing man should have the devotion of his friends,
even though he forsakes the fear of the Almighty."
Job 6:14


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"He who is kind to the poor lends to the LORD,
and he will reward him for what he has done."
Proverbs 19:17


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"Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ."
Galatians 6:2


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"Who is weak, and I do not feel weak? Who is led into sin, and I do not inwardly burn?"
2 Corinthians 11:29


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"So that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it."
1 Corinthians 12:25-26


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"If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him?"
1 John 3:17


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"Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem."
John 4:20


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"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'"
Matthew 13:27


"He who is kind to the poor lends to the LORD,
and he will reward him for what he has done."
Proverbs 19:17


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"And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is my disciple, I tell you the truth, he will certainly not lose his reward."
Matthew 10:42
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But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
Luke 10:33


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"But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him."

Luke 15:20


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"She opened it and saw the baby. He was crying, and she felt sorry for him. "This is one of the Hebrew babies," she said."
Exodus 2:6


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"When David came to Mahanaim, Shobi son of Nahash from Rabbah of the Ammonites, and Makir son of Ammiel from Lo Debar, and Barzillai the Gileadite from Rogelim 28 brought bedding and bowls and articles of pottery. They also brought wheat and barley, flour and roasted grain, beans and lentils, [a] 29 honey and curds, sheep, and cheese from cows' milk for David and his people to eat. For they said, "The people have become hungry and tired and thirsty in the desert." "

2 Samuel 17:27-29


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She said to Elijah, "What do you have against me, man of God? Did you come to remind me of my sin and kill my son?"
"Give me your son," Elijah replied. He took him from her arms, carried him to the upper room where he was staying, and laid him on his bed.

Kings 17:18-19


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Bible Verses About Compassion and Sympathy - Real. Powerful. Timeless Quotes.
 
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nota bene said:
Oh, I see. You acknowledge, having listened to the audio, that it wasn't an entire crowd of tea-partiers who shouted, "Let him die!" (In fact, two men said only "Yeah!")

:
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Since there was no video shot of the audience, I was wondering how you can state so clearly that it was two men who responded to the "just let him die" question? I heard the same tape that you and everyone else did and the response sounded more than just two people but I could never apply an exact number to it. How can you?
 
nota bene said:
Please direct me to where I need to look in Romans. I'm no scholar. Is this where Jesus says,
"We are not our brother's keeper. It is survivial of the fittest. He said don't feed the hungry, throw the first stone, bring no compasion to the law. Let them die"?

This is what you've claimed. I'm going to be disappointed and regard you as dishonest if you can't cite chapter and verse.
Click to expand...

Jesus-Matthew 6:24 said:
“No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money."
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Obviously Jesus had little to say about public vs private sector services in the bronze age. However, if he were alive today would you see him serving money or god?

On the subject of taxes:

Jesus-Mark 12:17 said:
And Jesus said unto them, Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's. And they marveled greatly at him.
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haymarket said:
Since there was no video shot of the audience, I was wondering how you can state so clearly that it was two men who responded to the "just let him die" question? I heard the same tape that you and everyone else did and the response sounded more than just two people but I could never apply an exact number to it. How can you?
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I counted.
 
Boo Radley said:
Sure. But we know in advance it will happen. Are we any more responsible collectively for not planning for it? Leaving ad hock ,assures prices will be higher, we'll all paid for it, and likely more than we have had we apporcahed this with some sort of plan. Isn't not planing also irresponsible?
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Get treated and taken care of, fine. But I think he is taking advantage of the system which is meant for the poor and disabled. He had all the power to get insurance and be taken care of by himself. If he comes out ok then he should at least pay back society or do some community service. I think that is only fair. I just get a weird image like Bill Gates dropping his insurance and saying "thank you america for paying my medical bill!" *rides off in private jet*.
 
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jasonxe said:
Get treated and taken care of, fine. But I think he is taking advantage of the system which is meant for the poor and disabled. He had all the power to get insurance and be taken care of by himself. If he comes out ok then he should at least pay back society or do some community service. I think that is only fair. I just get a weird image like Bill Gates dropping his insurance and saying "thank you america for paying my medical bill!" *rides off in private jet*.
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Gates has done that now, so why would he otherwise. This problem is more among those who think they are invinciable, young, and spend the money they have elsewhere. They can't pay the bill like Gates could.
 
Boo Radley said:
Gates has done that now, so why would he otherwise. This problem is more among those who think they are invinciable, young, and spend the money they have elsewhere. They can't pay the bill like Gates could.
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Why would he pay if it was already paid for? There should be some repercussion for doing that.
 
jasonxe said:
Why would he pay if it was already paid for? There should be some repercussion for doing that.
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He doesn't now. I'm not really following you. Today, he doesn't pay and we do. It's one of the problems we face. If we mandate it, h has to pay. If we have UHC, it is no longer a concern. If we cut out all of government, he will do what he's doign to today and not pay and we will again pay through higher costs and prices. The only way that doesn't happen is if we say let him die (though even then someone will take a risk and lose), which silly screams for the audience really won't happen.
 
Boo Radley said:
He doesn't now. I'm not really following you. Today, he doesn't pay and we do. It's one of the problems we face. If we mandate it, h has to pay. If we have UHC, it is no longer a concern. If we cut out all of government, he will do what he's doign to today and not pay and we will again pay through higher costs and prices. The only way that doesn't happen is if we say let him die (though even then someone will take a risk and lose), which silly screams for the audience really won't happen.
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so uhc then?
 
haymarket said:
Since there was no video of the actual audience, you were counting what exactly?
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The number of voices that responded to Paul's remark. You do understand that the issue is what was said, yes, rather than what was seen?

I find difficult to believe that you are genuinely this confused.
 
Guy Incognito said:
I like your reasonable attitude, although I am always perplexed by left-libertarians. I am also wary of the "freedom to starve" thing, which is why I support some minimal government-enforced safety net. I am not an anarcho-capitalist, I am a minarchist libertarian. But the key word there is minimal.
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Noam Chomsky sometimes refers to himself as a libertarian. So too has Paulo Friere. Libertarian thought is a very large tent. I have been sadened to see the term increasingly refer only to the RW, "corporate ascendency" version of it. I may have to start calling myself something else... but what makes a Libertarian? Fundamentally, I think there's just two things:

1. Nonaggresion.
2. belief in the freedom of individuals to do whatever dumb things they want, so long as they do not harm others.

Guy Incognito said:
Healthcare isn't a right. It's a fact of scarcity that it will always be rationed, as you say. But if we treat healthcare as a right, then it's a slippery slope. Does that right extend to elective treatments? It just doesn't make sense. The only sensible thing for a leftist to do is divvy up healthcare equally for all, which diminishes the quality of healthcare for the top while raising it for the bottom. Sounds reasonable, but it's impossible to achieve without coercion.

I don't think healthcare should, morally, be determined by ability to pay. But society has outvoted me. And unless I'm willing to coerce society into following my moral prejudices (which I am not), then I have no alternative but the accept the free market.

If a fellow doesn't have insurance, he is at the mercy of fate and can only hope for the charity of others. That's his decision. He must accept the consequences of it. The upshot is, he's free.
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The answer seems to be
1. A base level of care that at least stops people from proverbially or litterally dying in the streets. Since not all given this care can pay, the cost will be socialized (by other users of the hospital, gov't programs, or charity.)
2. A free market in insurance programs and health care service itself that allows for whatever level of care a consumer wants.

This is not so different from the system currently in place, with the giant, glaring exceptions of Medicare and Medicaid.
 
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