A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Most L

[DaveFagan]

A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Most Likely Buildings to Be Attacked" | Truthout

What do you make of this "history" of events preceding 9/11 and its continuing legacy? Why would any group not want to reveal this information? If the gov't shuts down a group that accurately assessed a terrorist event before it occurred, how could it possibly organize to prevent such events going forward? Is it just bureaucracy run amok or more sinister?

 

[rocket88]

Re: A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Mo

A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Most Likely Buildings to Be Attacked" | Truthout

What do you make of this "history" of events preceding 9/11 and its continuing legacy? Why would any group not want to reveal this information? If the gov't shuts down a group that accurately assessed a terrorist event before it occurred, how could it possibly organize to prevent such events going forward? Is it just bureaucracy run amok or more sinister?

I think the problem you run into is that unless you know who and how, it's hard to stop. For example, with 9/11, it probably didn't take much imagination to think that the WTC and the Pentagon were potential targets. But you'd have to know that the plan was to hijack planes and use them as missiles. Then you'd either have to know which planes, or shut down all air traffic.

The simple fact is, we're vulnerable. Which only puts us in the same boat as everyone else on the planet. The Israelis have very good counter-terrorism, but attacks still manage to happen. It's just the way it is.

 

[DaveFagan]

Re: A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Mo

I think the problem you run into is that unless you know who and how, it's hard to stop. For example, with 9/11, it probably didn't take much imagination to think that the WTC and the Pentagon were potential targets. But you'd have to know that the plan was to hijack planes and use them as missiles. Then you'd either have to know which planes, or shut down all air traffic.

The simple fact is, we're vulnerable. Which only puts us in the same boat as everyone else on the planet. The Israelis have very good counter-terrorism, but attacks still manage to happen. It's just the way it is.

Nevertheless, why would you shutter an agency that correctly identified the perp and the targets accurately? Seems like giving it better funding or more credibility would be the more viable scenarios. Does it mean "kill the messenger" or what?

 

[DrunkenAsparagus]

Re: A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Mo

If anything, too many agencies doing too many things obscured the nature of the plot until it happened. There was too little information sharing; it's just like the three blind men and the elephant.

 

[soccerboy22]

Re: A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Mo

We have a bit of hindsight problem here. Knowing what we know, yeah we should have been ready for it. But at the time, did the angencies share information, did they know how, did anyone really thing some one would have the balls to attack us?

 

[danarhea]

Re: A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Mo

Nevertheless, why would you shutter an agency that correctly identified the perp and the targets accurately? Seems like giving it better funding or more credibility would be the more viable scenarios. Does it mean "kill the messenger" or what?

I think that Bush and Clinton both ignored a lot of information which could have prevented the attacks. A lot of people like to put this all on Bush, but don't forget that Clinton could have had bin Laden right here in the US, but didn't because he refused to cough up the price of a plane ticket.

 

[StillBallin75]

Re: A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Mo

Hindsight is always 20-20.

 

[Boo Radley]

Re: A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Mo

Hindsight is always 20-20.

True, but it can help to suggest what needs to be done. I think it showed we had to have agencies talk to one another.

 

[The Barbarian]

Re: A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Mo

I've done quit a bit of research into this, and what I have found, is that we (hopefully for our sake it has gotten better) really lacked in sharing information about who knew what with other agencies.
I agree with the other posters here, in hindsight you can always look back and mistakes made become far more glaring.

When you look back at the intel we were getting in the last few months leading up to 9/11 it would have been impossible to to cover them all, threats and possible sites of attacks were all over our country, and the world.

I have to agree with Rocket 88, we were, are, and will remain vulnerable, while at the same time taking every available reasonable precaution that we can. In my opinion our only real defense is the retaliation that is taken afterwards. It need to be severe enough to discourage others from daring to attack us again.

 

[Catawba]

Re: A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Mo

I've done quit a bit of research into this, and what I have found, is that we (hopefully for our sake it has gotten better) really lacked in sharing information about who knew what with other agencies.
I agree with the other posters here, in hindsight you can always look back and mistakes made become far more glaring.

When you look back at the intel we were getting in the last few months leading up to 9/11 it would have been impossible to to cover them all, threats and possible sites of attacks were all over our country, and the world.

I have to agree with Rocket 88, we were, are, and will remain vulnerable, while at the same time taking every available reasonable precaution that we can. In my opinion our only real defense is the retaliation that is taken afterwards. It need to be severe enough to discourage others from daring to attack us again.

Yeah we sure taught the Saudis not to mess with America............. Oh wait, we attacked Afghanistan and Iraq..........we continued to suck up to the Saudis............never mind.

 

[Canell]

Re: A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Mo

An inside job?

P.S.

 

[What if...?]

Re: A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Mo

We have a bit of hindsight problem here. Knowing what we know, yeah we should have been ready for it. But at the time, did the angencies share information, did they know how, did anyone really thing some one would have the balls to attack us?

The correction of the poor communication between the various intelligence communities is the ONE thing they got right after 9-11.

For me, unanswered questions still make the whole thing stink of LIHOP to me, but the dysfunction in our intelligence systems could answer my concerns without resorting to conspiracy theory. The right hand wasn't ALLOWED to know what the left hand was doing, so its perfectly reasonable that that led to the errors that allowed it to occur.

 

[1Perry]

Re: A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Mo

True, but it can help to suggest what needs to be done. I think it showed we had to have agencies talk to one another.

I have no desire to discuss any this conspiracy stuff but I will note that it was stupid to place the person who decided that agencies couldn't discuss things with each other be a part of the panel that investigated what went wrong.

It's amazing how many times we allow the fox determine why the chickens are missing.

 

[dixiesolutions]

Re: A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Mo

A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Most Likely Buildings to Be Attacked" | Truthout

What do you make of this "history" of events preceding 9/11 and its continuing legacy? Why would any group not want to reveal this information? If the gov't shuts down a group that accurately assessed a terrorist event before it occurred, how could it possibly organize to prevent such events going forward? Is it just bureaucracy run amok or more sinister?

What.?...Do you believe everything you read.?

 

[Boo Radley]

Re: A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Mo

I have no desire to discuss any this conspiracy stuff but I will note that it was stupid to place the person who decided that agencies couldn't discuss things with each other be a part of the panel that investigated what went wrong.

It's amazing how many times we allow the fox determine why the chickens are missing.

Entirely too often.

 

[StillBallin75]

Re: A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Mo

What.?...Do you believe everything you read.?

Do you believe everything you say?

 

[What if...?]

Re: A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Mo

What.?...Do you believe everything you read.?

Actually, everyone believes everything they read, AS THEY READ IT. It goes straight past our "filters" and has to be corrected afterwards. Usually as it is incorporated into our larger knowledge base. But if you distract someone just after they read something, whatever they just read ends up in the "true" column by default. And can end up "permanently" "true" if not thought about before it ends up in longer term memory.

Your Cognitive Linguistics lesson for the day!

 

[ecofarm]

Re: A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Mo

Actually, everyone believes everything they read, AS THEY READ IT. It goes straight past our "filters" and has to be corrected afterwards. Usually as it is incorporated into our larger knowledge base. But if you distract someone just after they read something, whatever they just read ends up in the "true" column by default. And can end up "permanently" "true" if not thought about before it ends up in longer term memory.

Your Cognitive Linguistics lesson for the day!

What about hearing? I'm considering this in light of speech pathology (and basic cognitive stuff).

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This thread is being moved to CT, right? I'm not clicky, but I figure via the jarbled OP.

 

[soccerboy22]

Re: A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Mo

The correction of the poor communication between the various intelligence communities is the ONE thing they got right after 9-11.

Oh I agree, that is the one good thing that came out of it. It still doesn't change the fact that we have a hindsight problem whenever we look at it. Should they have been sharing information? Yes. But that doesn't change the fact that we can't say we should have been able to stop it.

 

[Boo Radley]

Re: A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Mo

I have to agree with Rocket 88, we were, are, and will remain vulnerable, while at the same time taking every available reasonable precaution that we can. In my opinion our only real defense is the retaliation that is taken afterwards. It need to be severe enough to discourage others from daring to attack us again.

Against who? Does it really deter those who did it (and are dead) to attack those who were not involved? If this kind of thinking had merit, Palistine would have long ago left Israel alone. When the British final made head way with their terrorist problem, it wasn't by having more severe retaliation, but by getting co-operation and actually getting the right people and not just any people.

 

[What if...?]

Re: A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Mo

What about hearing? I'm considering this in light of speech pathology (and basic cognitive stuff).

-----

This thread is being moved to CT, right? I'm not clicky, but I figure via the jarbled OP.

The phenomenon I'm referring to concerns reading. Uses a different pathway than spoken/heard information. Bypasses our verbal BS filters because it doesn't go through them.

And still generally gets corrected as it integrates with existing knowledge.

The distraction right after reading is a dirty persuasion trick based on this.

There's an article on the site in my sig about it. I think its in another section than that link though.

 

[DrunkenAsparagus]

Re: A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Mo

Yeah we sure taught the Saudis not to mess with America............. Oh wait, we attacked Afghanistan and Iraq..........we continued to suck up to the Saudis............never mind.

Much of Al Qaeda's support structure was in Afghanistan. Also, the 15 Saudi high-jackers were literally less than one-in-a-million in their home country. The nature of our response, especially in Iraq, is questionable, but Saudi Arabia's government has been a useful, if brutal, ally in the War on Terror.

 

[DaveFagan]

Re: A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Mo

The correction of the poor communication between the various intelligence communities is the ONE thing they got right after 9-11.

For me, unanswered questions still make the whole thing stink of LIHOP to me, but the dysfunction in our intelligence systems could answer my concerns without resorting to conspiracy theory. The right hand wasn't ALLOWED to know what the left hand was doing, so its perfectly reasonable that that led to the errors that allowed it to occur.

The "perception" and acknowledgement of improved communications is noted. How does that justify shuttering the group that had correctly identified the attacker and the targets. That is not about improved communication. Example, have a Corporation with 8 board members who can't agree to get anything done because 4 are pro and 4 are con. Simple, shutter the 4 pros and the cons will have control. Things, right or wrong, will get done. Shouldn't the shuttering have been targetted at the groups in the communication network that didn't have any right answers? That is my dispute with the communication improvement theory.

 

[What if...?]

Re: A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Mo

The "perception" and acknowledgement of improved communications is noted. How does that justify shuttering the group that had correctly identified the attacker and the targets. That is not about improved communication. Example, have a Corporation with 8 board members who can't agree to get anything done because 4 are pro and 4 are con. Simple, shutter the 4 pros and the cons will have control. Things, right or wrong, will get done. Shouldn't the shuttering have been targetted at the groups in the communication network that didn't have any right answers? That is my dispute with the communication improvement theory.

Don't get me wrong, we're on the same page more or less. The whole thing stinks. I HATE suspicious things that only get worse the more you look at them.

End of the day? CYA and general incompetence could account for everything.

And intelligence consolidation shouldn't have resulted in shuttering of units with correct assessments, which was probably a result of CYA behavior. Makes it harder to shirk responsibility with "no one expected it" if someone DID indeed expect it. Communication failures aside.

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Re: A Year Before 9/11, Intelligence Unit Determined World Trade Center, Pentagon "Mo

I think that Bush and Clinton both ignored a lot of information which could have prevented the attacks. A lot of people like to put this all on Bush, but don't forget that Clinton could have had bin Laden right here in the US, but didn't because he refused to cough up the price of a plane ticket.

This was investigated during the 9.11 Commission and no evidence was found to support it...

In late 1995,when Bin Ladin was still in Sudan, the State Department and the CIA learned that Sudanese officials were discussing with the Saudi government the possibility of expelling Bin Ladin. U.S.Ambassador Timothy Carney encouraged the Sudanese to pursue this course. The Saudis, however, did not want Bin Ladin, giving as their reason their revocation of his citizenship.

Sudan’s minister of defense, Fatih Erwa, has claimed that Sudan offered to hand Bin Ladin over to the United States. The Commission has found no credible evidence that this was so. Ambassador Carney had instructions only to push the Sudanese to expel Bin Ladin. Ambassador Carney had no legal basis to ask for more from the Sudanese since, at the time, there was no indictment outstanding.

9/11 Commission Report, chapter 4, pg 109-110

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf​