• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Solyndra shuts its doors

apdst

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Messages
133,631
Reaction score
30,937
Location
Bagdad, La.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
One of the new and awesome green companies--in the non-existant green industry- that is going to wreckover the American economy is going belly up. 12 months ago, they were the bright shining star, according to The One. 12 months later, they've blown through a half-a-billion dollars in tax payer funded loans and produced exactly, nothing.

Someone needs to go to prison over this.

But, we know that the DOJ is too busy worrying about ATT&T buying another wireless company and Gibson buying wood to worry about this level of fraud and waste.

Solyndra shuts its doors « Hot Air
 
One of the new and awesome green companies--in the non-existant green industry- that is going to wreckover the American economy is going belly up. 12 months ago, they were the bright shining star, according to The One. 12 months later, they've blown through a half-a-billion dollars in tax payer funded loans and produced exactly, nothing.

Someone needs to go to prison over this.

But, we know that the DOJ is too busy worrying about ATT&T buying another wireless company and Gibson buying wood to worry about this level of fraud and waste.

Solyndra shuts its doors « Hot Air

Sensationalism at it's best. Well done, sir. Did you have to get a degree to learn that or does it just come naturally?
 
Sensationalism at it's best. Well done, sir. Did you have to get a degree to learn that or does it just come naturally?

Is that really the best response you have?

Not a single logical explanation as to why the green energy industry is folding up, taking with it billions in tax dollars?
 
it's a bit troubling that the administration fast tracked this big ass loan without properly vetting the company or the risk... but when it comes to light that some of the capital loaned to this company came from a Democratic party fundraiser and billionaire George Kaiser ( whom the taxpayers with pay back though obama's loan guarantee program).. it makes more sense.... seems that it was a political move from the start.
there is not enough information, as of yet, to say whether there is corruption involved or not.

an investigation is taking place ( by house republicans), but as is the case with most investigations of this sort, nothing will come of it..and taxpayers will be out 535 million bucks.


as a side note, there are 38 billion bucks , spread over 40 "green" companies left out there.... and they are not producing anything of note.
 
That's another half a day in Iraq blown on a green company. :roll:
 
it's a bit troubling that the administration fast tracked this big ass loan without properly vetting the company or the risk... but when it comes to light that some of the capital loaned to this company came from a Democratic party fundraiser and billionaire George Kaiser ( whom the taxpayers with pay back though obama's loan guarantee program).. it makes more sense.... seems that it was a political move from the start.
there is not enough information, as of yet, to say whether there is corruption involved or not.

an investigation is taking place ( by house republicans), but as is the case with most investigations of this sort, nothing will come of it..and taxpayers will be out 535 million bucks.


as a side note, there are 38 billion bucks , spread over 40 "green" companies left out there.... and they are not producing anything of note.

It was a money laundering scheme...pure and simple.

Someone would probably go to the joint, if not for the DOJ spending so much of it's time exporting weapons to Mexican drug cartels.
 
It was a money laundering scheme...pure and simple.

Someone would probably go to the joint, if not for the DOJ spending so much of it's time exporting weapons to Mexican drug cartels.

it's way too early in the game to even speculate on any malfeasance.
 
Is that really the best response you have?

Not a single logical explanation as to why the green energy industry is folding up, taking with it billions in tax dollars?

The entire "green energy industry" can not be summed up by one company. By your logic, Circuit City closing its doors means that the home electronics and entertainment business is a thing of the past.
 
it's way too early in the game to even speculate on any malfeasance.

It doesn't take too long to figure that when a company that employs 747 full time employees blows through a half-a-billion dollars in 12 months, that something is seriously wrong.

It's one of two scenarios:

1) The honchos at Solyndra pissed away the money, or

2) They weren't anywhere competant enough to given the money the money to begin with.

Either way, a crime has been committed.
 
The entire "green energy industry" can not be summed up by one company. By your logic, Circuit City closing its doors means that the home electronics and entertainment business is a thing of the past.

You would be correct, if not for the fact that 4 green companies have gone belly up this year.
 
You would be correct, if not for the fact that 4 green companies have gone belly up this year.

SE102 summed it up well, and I am not sure you have any idea what money laundering is. You remind me of Charlie from Sunny in Philly talking about the mysterious "vig". Hey apdst, since you are an expert on the green energy market, what percentage of the market share has gone under? I know you have no idea so it is a rhetorical question (ie. you don't have to answer because I know you do not know the answer).

*Edit to add:

Also by your logic, banks do not work either, since almost all of our major ones failed in 2008 and had to be bailed out. Here is a list of (a few of the) banks (lenders) that had to be bailed out or shut their doors in 2008:1

1) Allco Finance Group
2) Countrywide Financial
3) IndyMac Bank
4) Lehman Brothers
5) Madoff Investment Securities
6) Yamato Life Insurance Company
7) Wachovia
8) et al

Just to name a few. Or, from the same link, Airlines in 2008:

1) Aloha Airlines
2) Apex Aircraft
3) ATA Airlines
4) eos Airlines
5) Frontier Airlines
6) Silver State Helicopters
7) Silverjet
8) Skybus Airlines
9) et al

I guess banks and airlines are a lost cause (and airlines are subsidized!). Great call man!
 
Last edited:
SE102 summed it up well, and I am not sure you have any idea what money laundering is. You remind me of Charlie from Sunny in Philly talking about the mysterious "vig". Hey apdst, since you are an expert on the green energy market, what percentage of the market share has gone under? I know you have no idea so it is a rhetorical question (ie. you don't have to answer because I know you do not know the answer).

*Edit to add:

Also by your logic, banks do not work either, since almost all of our major ones failed in 2008 and had to be bailed out. Here is a list of (a few of the) banks (lenders) that had to be bailed out or shut their doors in 2008:1

1) Allco Finance Group
2) Countrywide Financial
3) IndyMac Bank
4) Lehman Brothers
5) Madoff Investment Securities
6) Yamato Life Insurance Company
7) Wachovia
8) et al

Just to name a few. Or, from the same link, Airlines in 2008:

1) Aloha Airlines
2) Apex Aircraft
3) ATA Airlines
4) eos Airlines
5) Frontier Airlines
6) Silver State Helicopters
7) Silverjet
8) Skybus Airlines
9) et al

I guess banks and airlines are a lost cause (and airlines are subsidized!). Great call man!

That is one lame assed argument.

Which one of those companies received a half-billion dollars in government handouts and flopped within 12 months?

Aren't Libbos opposed to corporate welfare?
 
Last edited:
Well it's to the strategic ends of reducing dependency on fossil fuels, so... no most of them wouldn't be opposed.
 
One of the new and awesome green companies-- [1] in the non-existant green industry- that is going to wreckover the American economy is going belly up. 12 months ago, they were the bright shining star, according to The One. 12 months later, they've blown through a half-a-billion dollars in tax payer funded loans and [2] produced exactly, nothing.

[3] Someone needs to go to prison over this. But, we know that the DOJ is too busy worrying about ATT&T buying another wireless company and Gibson buying wood to worry about [4] this level of fraud and waste. Solyndra shuts its doors « Hot Air
1. If the green industry is "non-existant", why are the solar cell companies that have recently gone under -- such as Solyndra -- (indirectly) citing cheap imports from China as a contributing cause of their failure?
Solyndra/NBC said:
Solyndra could not achieve full-scale operations rapidly enough to compete in the near term with the resources of larger foreign manufacturers. This competitive challenge was exacerbated by a global oversupply of solar panels and a severe compression of prices that in part resulted from uncertainty in governmental incentive programs in Europe and the decline in credit markets that finance solar systems. [source (Word document)]

2. My understanding is that the loan was used to construct a new manufacturing facility. Your argument is that this facility is "nothing"?
Hot Air said:
The money went to build a massive new facility [...] source]

3. Would you like to tell us what laws were broken?

4. Would you care to specifically describe the "fraud", and

4b. Would you care to specifically describe the "waste"?

Unless and until those defects in your argument are addressed, you really have no argument, but merely a partisan rant. Hardly surprising, considering the source of your material (Hot Air; aptly named if nothing else :mrgreen: ).
 
That's another half a day in Iraq blown on a green company. :roll:
Apparently Congress approved both didn't they. Are you voting against your Democrat friends who supported this bankrupt company? Iraq has a democratic govt now, btw. But this isn't about derailing a thread, like you are so famous for doing.
 
Is that really the best response you have?

Not a single logical explanation as to why the green energy industry is folding up, taking with it billions in tax dollars?

Sensationalism at it's best. Well done, sir. Did you have to get a degree to learn that or does it just come naturally?

Liberalism at its best. No substance....
 
Well it's to the strategic ends of reducing dependency on fossil fuels, so... no most of them wouldn't be opposed.

Is that the essence of Obama's Porkulus II package coming soon?
 
Well it's to the strategic ends of reducing dependency on fossil fuels, so... no most of them wouldn't be opposed.

How's it working, so far? I mean, at this rate, we should be off of fossil fuels in, how many decades and trillions of wasted tax dollars?
 
Apparently Congress approved both didn't they. Are you voting against your Democrat friends who supported this bankrupt company? Iraq has a democratic govt now, btw. But this isn't about derailing a thread, like you are so famous for doing.

Yes, they have a democratic govt that democratically wants us to gtfo, I digress.

Golly should I vote republican for a completely strategic blunder of an unecessary war? Or vote democrat for wasting the equivalent of a few days in that war in funding? Not to mention nobody died...
Really hard choice /s/ your point struck me so strongly... /s/
 
[...] Aren't Libbos opposed to corporate welfare?
You've made no rational argument that a gov't guaranteed loan is corporate welfare.

Aren't Conos opposed to hyperbole?
icon_biggrin_notooth.gif
 
One of the new and awesome green companies--in [1] the non-existant green industry- that is going to wreckover the American economy is going belly up. 12 months ago, they were the bright shining star, according to The One. 12 months later, they've blown through [2] a half-a-billion dollars in tax payer funded loans and produced exactly, nothing.

[3] Someone needs to go to prison over this.

But, we know that the DOJ is too busy worrying about ATT&T buying another wireless company and Gibson buying wood to worry about [4] this level of fraud and waste.

Solyndra shuts its doors « Hot Air
1. If the green industry is "non-existant", then why are the green companies that are failing -- including Solyndra -- citing cheap foreign competition as a source of their problems? ("Solyndra could not achieve full-scale operations rapidly enough to compete in the near term with the resources of larger foreign manufacturers. This competitive challenge was exacerbated by a global oversupply of solar panels and a severe compression of prices that in part resulted from uncertainty in governmental incentive programs in Europe and the decline in credit markets that finance solar systems" [Solyndra Press Release {Word document}]). Could it not be said that supporters of race-to-the-bottom free trade are as responsible as anyone for the bankruptcy of domestic manufacturers such as Solyndra, as well as the supporters of unregulated-big-business policies that allowed the current boom/bust credit crisis to germinate?

"[1-13-2011] Massachusetts-based solar company Evergreen Solar, Inc. (NasdaqCM: ESLRD) announced its intent to shut down operations at its Devens, Massachusetts manufacturing facility by the end of 1Q11. The company will layoff about 800 workers.[...] falling prices, driven by high-capacity competition in China undermined the new facility--despite the fact that it produces a unique solar cell technology, called "string-ribbon" which requires less silicon to produce than standard crystalline solar cells.

Mr. El-Hillow added, “Although production costs at our Devens facility have steadily decreased, and are now below originally planned levels and lower than most western manufacturers, they are still much higher than those of our low cost competitors in China." (source)

2. Your own source says that most of the half-billion was used to construct a new manufacturing facility ("The money went to build a massive new facility"). How is that, exactly, "nothing"?

3. Would you care to illuminate us as to exactly what laws were broken? Should there be a trial first, or do you consider that an unnecessary hindrance?

4. Would you care to describe and document the fraud?

I hereby retract my previous observation about certain groups being opposed to hyperbole . . . . .
 
1. If the green industry is "non-existant", then why are the green companies that are failing -- including Solyndra -- citing cheap foreign competition as a source of their problems? ("Solyndra could not achieve full-scale operations rapidly enough to compete in the near term with the resources of larger foreign manufacturers. This competitive challenge was exacerbated by a global oversupply of solar panels and a severe compression of prices that in part resulted from uncertainty in governmental incentive programs in Europe and the decline in credit markets that finance solar systems" [Solyndra Press Release {Word document}]). Could it not be said that supporters of race-to-the-bottom free trade are as responsible as anyone for the bankruptcy of domestic manufacturers such as Solyndra, as well as the supporters of unregulated-big-business policies that allowed the current boom/bust credit crisis to germinate?

"[1-13-2011] Massachusetts-based solar company Evergreen Solar, Inc. (NasdaqCM: ESLRD) announced its intent to shut down operations at its Devens, Massachusetts manufacturing facility by the end of 1Q11. The company will layoff about 800 workers.[...] falling prices, driven by high-capacity competition in China undermined the new facility--despite the fact that it produces a unique solar cell technology, called "string-ribbon" which requires less silicon to produce than standard crystalline solar cells.

Mr. El-Hillow added, “Although production costs at our Devens facility have steadily decreased, and are now below originally planned levels and lower than most western manufacturers, they are still much higher than those of our low cost competitors in China." (source)

2. Your own source says that most of the half-billion was used to construct a new manufacturing facility ("The money went to build a massive new facility"). How is that, exactly, "nothing"?

3. Would you care to illuminate us as to exactly what laws were broken? Should there be a trial first, or do you consider that an unnecessary hindrance?

4. Would you care to describe and document the fraud?

I hereby retract my previous observation about certain groups being opposed to hyperbole . . . . .

Post some numbers as to how many of those products are being imported into the United States. Thanks in advance.
 
Post some numbers as to how many of those products are being imported into the United States. Thanks in advance.
Since your argument consists of inferring that the two different solar panel manufacturers that I quoted are lying, I think the burden of proof at this point is upon you.

Furthermore, since your argument also infers that cheap Chinese imports are not detrimental to domestic manufacturing in general, I think the credibility of your argument is beyond rehabilitation.

Lastly, a review of the materials I've already provided would reveal that Evergreen Solar itself operates a Chinese facility, and will continue to do so after shuttering it's Massachusetts facility, further obviating any need for additional documentation of the detrimental nature of cheap, effectively-foreign-gov't-subsidized offshore imports:

Evergreen Solar will continue to operate its high temperature filament plant in Midland, Michigan and its wafer facility in Wuhan, China. With approximately 75 megawatts of installed wafer capacity in Wuhan, the Company will continue to supply its outsourcing partner with wafers for conversion into Evergreen Solar branded solar panels.

Evergreen Solar Gives Up on U.S. Manufacturing (previously cited in post #20)
 
Since your argument consists of inferring that the two different solar panel manufacturers that I quoted are lying, I think the burden of proof at this point is upon you.

Furthermore, since your argument also infers that cheap Chinese imports are not detrimental to domestic manufacturing in general, I think the credibility of your argument is beyond rehabilitation.

Lastly, a review of the materials I've already provided would reveal that Evergreen Solar itself operates a Chinese facility, and will continue to do so after shuttering it's Massachusetts facility, further obviating any need for additional documentation of the detrimental nature of cheap, effectively-foreign-gov't-subsidized offshore imports:

Youll find in your time here, that certain wooden skulls wont absorb knocks at the door after so long.
 
Youll find in your time here, that certain wooden skulls wont absorb knocks at the door after so long.
Knocking on the door is the fun part. The occasional answer is often merely icing on the cake of hilarity ;)
 
Back
Top Bottom