• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Voters See These ‘Corporate Welfare’ Programs As A Good Place To Cut Government Spend

Re: Voters See These ‘Corporate Welfare’ Programs As A Good Place To Cut Government S

lpast said:
I agree tess profits are high all around....but were talking about giving BIG OIL free money...just tossing all the american parasites food money at big oil just cuz..
Tess you havent explained to me...how, when big oil raises the price at the pump sky high...and usages goes down...they break profit records...now please explain to me how they arent ROBBING every single american including the parasites that can afford it the least..
The teapartiers on here that rail on and on about parasitic poor americans getting a pittance for free...and senior on SS that they paid into for decades have NO Problem with big oil robbing them and driving the cost of EVERYTHING sky high...I cant compute that much hypocrisy sorry tess...
Click to expand...

Few things:

Federal gas tax is 18.9 cents per gallon, state tax (Texas) is 20 cents. That's .39 cents or just over 10% of the total cost of a gallon (state average) (link here). The profit to the gas station per gallon is .16, not including CC fees (link here), so based on the 30% model, let's say they're getting about .53 cents per gallon. That puts us at .92 per gallon, or about 25% of the total cost of a gallon of gas.

...you know what? This is better:
Generally speaking, since there are so many variables to consider, precise cost breakdowns are difficult to ascertain. According to the Energy Information Administration (EIA), however, which issues the “Official Energy Statistics from the U.S. Government” the average cost at the pump for a gallon of gasoline is broken down as follows:

•74% - Cost of the crude oil
•11% - Taxes
•10% - Refining costs
•5% - Distribution and marketing

In a simple illustration, let’s assume an oil company is paying $100 for a barrel (42 gallons) of basic crude oil. Their cost for a gallon will be about $2.38. At a gasoline-pump price of $4.00 per gallon, 44 cents has to pay for taxes and 20 cents for distribution and marketing expenses. This leaves $3.36 for the oil companies. Out of that total they have to pay for the cost of the gallon of crude oil itself which was $2.38 and also the 40 cents to refine it into gasoline. This leaves $0.58 profit per gallon of gasoline. As noted, however, depending on which report one looks at, this profit-margin can range anywhere between an estimated 30 to 60 cents per gallon.
Click to expand...

Refinery Oil Prices - Cost To Refine Oil Into Gasoline | What It Costs

So, they're making a 10 to 30% profit per gallon of gas....which is about right for the SOP of most businesses.
 
Re: Voters See These ‘Corporate Welfare’ Programs As A Good Place To Cut Government S

lpast said:
Of course it is and its the Hypocrisy of my fellow conservatives that drove me away from them....oh giving rich and greedy money just because they want it...is perfectly fine and defensible ....giving money to an individual that needs it...is another parasite sucking the richs blood....BULL S
Click to expand...

Both are true scenarios. There are corporate greedy bastards and there are parasite sucking people gaming the system. Most corporations are not though just like most people needing help are not parasites. Yet we have to be able to discuss both and accept that both do have their abusers, and be able to agree that the abusers need to be addressed and dealt with.
 
Re: Voters See These ‘Corporate Welfare’ Programs As A Good Place To Cut Government S

tessaesque said:
Few things:

Federal gas tax is 18.9 cents per gallon, state tax (Texas) is 20 cents. That's .39 cents or just over 10% of the total cost of a gallon (state average) (link here). The profit to the gas station per gallon is .16, not including CC fees (link here), so based on the 30% model, let's say they're getting about .53 cents per gallon. That puts us at .92 per gallon, or about 25% of the total cost of a gallon of gas.

...you know what? This is better:


Refinery Oil Prices - Cost To Refine Oil Into Gasoline | What It Costs

So, they're making a 10 to 30% profit per gallon of gas....which is about right for the SOP of most businesses.
Click to expand...

And the rightwingers still haven't identified one corporate welfare program they would support ending
 
Re: Voters See These ‘Corporate Welfare’ Programs As A Good Place To Cut Government S

lpast said:
Congress is looking for sizable spending cuts in the months ahead, and voters see three so-called “corporate welfare” programs as potential candidates for the chopping block - farm subsidies, aid to large corporations to promote export sales and funding to help other countries buy U.S.-made weapons.


All the things the teapary never talks about...if it doesnt have social security or medicare or tax cuts for the rich...its not on their table


Voters See These
Click to expand...

Just cause you SAY it...doesnt make it true. Just because you WANT to demonize Tea Party supporters doesnt mean you have a clue about them.

"Huge deficits and debt and yet the only answer is to raise taxes, provide bailouts to failed businesses, and create massive new government spending programs on borrowed money. These events, in the eyes of many participants in the Tea Party Movement, threaten our country’s stability and the prosperity of the next generations, their children and grandchildren and beyond."

Obviously the Tea Party supporters are opposed to the bailouts and are FOR responsible government spending. Shockingly, according to YOUR article...so are about 71% of the people in the country. 68% of the country are opposed to corporate welfare, inline with the Tea Party position. 79% of the 'mainstream are opposed to cash to foreign countries for weapons purchases...I think you would be hard pressed to find too many Tea Party supporters that would disagree...though im sure you could find SOME (just like you can find some mainstream support as well).

The beyond idiotic part is that you spend all your time worrying about the TEA PARTY (as if it were an actual party) and not on YOUR parties which have so completely ****ed everything up.
 
Re: Voters See These ‘Corporate Welfare’ Programs As A Good Place To Cut Government S

sangha said:
So do you support ending govt subsidies and tax credits for corn, soy or wheat farmers? Yes or no?
Click to expand...

Until all subsidies are dealt with in an even and fair manner, I do not support specifically targeting one industry because of lack of popularity.
 
Re: Voters See These ‘Corporate Welfare’ Programs As A Good Place To Cut Government S

VanceMack said:
Just cause you SAY it...doesnt make it true. Just because you WANT to demonize Tea Party supporters doesnt mean you have a clue about them.

"Huge deficits and debt and yet the only answer is to raise taxes, provide bailouts to failed businesses, and create massive new government spending programs on borrowed money. These events, in the eyes of many participants in the Tea Party Movement, threaten our country’s stability and the prosperity of the next generations, their children and grandchildren and beyond."

Obviously the Tea Party supporters are opposed to the bailouts and are FOR responsible government spending. Shockingly, according to YOUR article...so are about 71% of the people in the country. 68% of the country are opposed to corporate welfare, inline with the Tea Party position. 79% of the 'mainstream are opposed to cash to foreign countries for weapons purchases...I think you would be hard pressed to find too many Tea Party supporters that would disagree...though im sure you could find SOME (just like you can find some mainstream support as well).

The beyond idiotic part is that you spend all your time worrying about the TEA PARTY (as if it were an actual party) and not on YOUR parties which have so completely ****ed everything up.
Click to expand...

"Tea party position blah, blah, blah" and on and on with the blather. But the rightwingers still can't identify any corporate welfare programs they would support ending
 
Re: Voters See These ‘Corporate Welfare’ Programs As A Good Place To Cut Government S

Harry Guerrilla said:
Until all subsidies are dealt with in an even and fair manner, I do not support specifically targeting one industry because of lack of popularity.
Click to expand...

So you can't even identify one corporate welfare program unless everyone gets cut, but you're all for ending free lunches to children in Detroit even though it targets only one group of people?

Targetting one industry = BAD
Targetting one group of children = GREAT!!!
 
Re: Voters See These ‘Corporate Welfare’ Programs As A Good Place To Cut Government S

tessaesque said:
Few things:

Federal gas tax is 18.9 cents per gallon, state tax (Texas) is 20 cents. That's .39 cents or just over 10% of the total cost of a gallon (state average) (link here). The profit to the gas station per gallon is .16, not including CC fees (link here), so based on the 30% model, let's say they're getting about .53 cents per gallon. That puts us at .92 per gallon, or about 25% of the total cost of a gallon of gas.

...you know what? This is better:


Refinery Oil Prices - Cost To Refine Oil Into Gasoline | What It Costs

So, they're making a 10 to 30% profit per gallon of gas....which is about right for the SOP of most businesses.
Click to expand...
\\


Tess thats all true...We agree :) but it doesnt mean anything in correlation to WHY...when big oil drives the prices sky high at the pump and usage goes DOWn they break profit records...and were talking billions...
 
Re: Voters See These ‘Corporate Welfare’ Programs As A Good Place To Cut Government S

sangha said:
So you can't even identify one corporate welfare program unless everyone gets cut, but you're all for ending free lunches to children in Detroit even though it targets only one group of people?

Targetting one industry = BAD
Targetting one group of children = GREAT!!!
Click to expand...

I never said that.
Stop putting words into my mouth.
 
Re: Voters See These ‘Corporate Welfare’ Programs As A Good Place To Cut Government S

Harry Guerrilla said:
I never said that.
Stop putting words into my mouth.
Click to expand...

I still don't see you identifying any corporate welfare programs that you would support ending. Your argument is that it is unfair to end the oil depletion allowance unless we end it for every industry. Do you understand how nutty that is?
 
Re: Voters See These ‘Corporate Welfare’ Programs As A Good Place To Cut Government S

lpast said:
\\


Tess thats all true...We agree :) but it doesnt mean anything in correlation to WHY...when big oil drives the prices sky high at the pump and usage goes DOWn they break profit records...and were talking billions...
Click to expand...

They aren't setting the price. And a 30% profit on any good is not exorbitant. It's standard. The price increase is artificially generated inflation based on speculation. Record profits come from record sales.
 
Re: Voters See These ‘Corporate Welfare’ Programs As A Good Place To Cut Government S

sangha said:
I still don't see you identifying any corporate welfare programs that you would support ending. Your argument is that it is unfair to end the oil depletion allowance unless we end it for every industry. Do you understand how nutty that is?
Click to expand...

My argument is that, unless we're willing to end all corporate tax breaks for all corporations and business ventures, then it is entirely arbitrary and stupid to go after one business who takes advantage of tax benefits that most other businesses to get to take, aside from the depletion allowance.
 
Re: Voters See These ‘Corporate Welfare’ Programs As A Good Place To Cut Government S

Harry Guerrilla said:
My argument is that, unless we're willing to end all corporate tax breaks for all corporations and business ventures, then it is entirely arbitrary and stupid to go after one business who takes advantage of tax benefits that most other businesses to get to take, aside from the depletion allowance.
Click to expand...

But it's OK to go after welfare programs that benefit individuals even if we don't go after ALL of them?

Gee, that's not too hypocritical

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...hoolkids-get-free-meals-2.html#post1059732749
 
Re: Voters See These ‘Corporate Welfare’ Programs As A Good Place To Cut Government S

sangha said:
But it's OK to go after welfare programs that benefit individuals even if we don't go after ALL of them?

Gee, that's not too hypocritical

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...hoolkids-get-free-meals-2.html#post1059732749
Click to expand...

No it's not hypocritical, it may be contradictory but not hypocritical.
I'm against the school lunch program because these people are likely already eligible for food stamps, the program is redundant.
 
Re: Voters See These ‘Corporate Welfare’ Programs As A Good Place To Cut Government S

Harry Guerrilla said:
No it's not hypocritical, it may be contradictory but not hypocritical.
I'm against the school lunch program because these people are likely already eligible for food stamps, the program is redundant.
Click to expand...

That was sig-worthy :lamo
 
Re: Voters See These ‘Corporate Welfare’ Programs As A Good Place To Cut Government S

Harry Guerrilla said:
I said it may be contradictory.

It's definitely not hypocritical though.
I'm not trying to be deceptive.
Click to expand...

Rightwingers are just natural hypocrits.

And I believe you don't see the hypocrisy, and that you're basically honest, but it's hypocrisy to think that people who don't need welfare shouldnt get it, but corps who don't need it should.
 
Re: Voters See These ‘Corporate Welfare’ Programs As A Good Place To Cut Government S

sangha said:
Rightwingers are just natural hypocrits.

And I believe you don't see the hypocrisy, but it's hypocrisy to think that people who don't need welfare shouldnt get it, but corps who don't need it should.
Click to expand...

Contradictory | Define Contradictory at Dictionary.com

Hypocrite | Define Hypocrite at Dictionary.com

A hypocrite means that the person is purposefully being deceptive, they're lying about their true beliefs.
Saying a person is an "unknowing hypocrite" is an oxymoron.
 
Re: Voters See These ‘Corporate Welfare’ Programs As A Good Place To Cut Government S

Harry Guerrilla said:
Contradictory | Define Contradictory at Dictionary.com

Hypocrite | Define Hypocrite at Dictionary.com

A hypocrite means that the person is purposefully being deceptive, they're lying about their true beliefs.
Saying a person is an "unknowing hypocrite" is an oxymoron.
Click to expand...
That's wrong, a person can be a hypocrite without realizing it.


Hypocrite - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
 
Re: Voters See These ‘Corporate Welfare’ Programs As A Good Place To Cut Government S

Harry Guerrilla said:
Contradictory | Define Contradictory at Dictionary.com

Hypocrite | Define Hypocrite at Dictionary.com

A hypocrite means that the person is purposefully being deceptive, they're lying about their true beliefs.
Saying a person is an "unknowing hypocrite" is an oxymoron.
Click to expand...

Now, I'm beginning to question your honesty, because the link you just posted says nothing about hypocrite requiring a person to lie about their beliefs.
 
Re: Voters See These ‘Corporate Welfare’ Programs As A Good Place To Cut Government S

pbrauer said:
That's wrong, a person can be a hypocrite without realizing it.


Hypocrite - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Click to expand...

From your source:

Definition of HYPOCRITE
1
: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2
: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

So how can a person "put on a false appearance of virtue" or "act in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs" without consciously knowing it?

sangha said:
Now, I'm beginning to question your honesty, because the link you just posted says nothing about hypocrite requiring a person to lie about their beliefs.
Click to expand...

If he had stopped at, "being purposefully deceptive," would you have gotten his meaning then?
 
Last edited:
Re: Voters See These ‘Corporate Welfare’ Programs As A Good Place To Cut Government S

Lets review what you are calling tax breaks. A company is assessed taxes on capital equipment, that is permanent equipment that depreciates in value over time. They are taxed for this at its full value and are allowed to amortize or write off the lowering in value on the equipment as it deteriorates over time. You are essentially saying they should be taxed for all capital outlays at full value. Capital depreciation occurs at all levels, mortgage home credits are based on that as are home improvement deductions, its a way to get back government taxes upon your property and to spur investment and solid home ownership.

If you really think amortization needs to go away, then maybe the government shouldn't levy taxes on capital equipment and investments at all.
 
Re: Voters See These ‘Corporate Welfare’ Programs As A Good Place To Cut Government S

OpportunityCost said:
Lets review what you are calling tax breaks. A company is assessed taxes on capital equipment, that is permanent equipment that depreciates in value over time. They are taxed for this at its full value and are allowed to amortize or write off the lowering in value on the equipment as it deteriorates over time. You are essentially saying they should be taxed for all capital outlays at full value. Capital depreciation occurs at all levels, mortgage home credits are based on that as are home improvement deductions, its a way to get back government taxes upon your property and to spur investment and solid home ownership.

If you really think amortization needs to go away, then maybe the government shouldn't levy taxes on capital equipment and investments at all.
Click to expand...

That was a large pile of lies.

1) Equipment can be depreciated over 5 years, even if it lasts for 30 years
2) The are not taxed for its' full value. Its' value is not taxed at all
3) Mortgage home credits have nothing to do with amortization or depreciation
4) The govt doesn't tax capital equipment

I learned this in my first year of Accounting classes
 
Re: Voters See These ‘Corporate Welfare’ Programs As A Good Place To Cut Government S

lpast said:
Im sure you are...but im not...govt welfare helps indviduals that dont have anything to dont have much and programs like SS and medicare that working people pay into all their lives...

Big oil never loses a penny...they raise the price their profits soar...they gouge us they break records...Im very surprised an intelligent fella like you cant see the difference and I mean that sincerely....who needs it who is stealing
Click to expand...

Government welfare destroyed the black family. If you are on the left, you are a racist. No exceptions.
 
Re: Voters See These ‘Corporate Welfare’ Programs As A Good Place To Cut Government S

Jerry said:
I'm more concerned about government welfare.
Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean as welfare is giving our tax dollars to others, be it unwed mothers or coporations. Oddly, we give a hell of a lot more to corporations than unwed mothers, yet unwed mothers are far more demonized. Always struck me as a real skewed view of the world to do that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom