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CAFE standards for big rigs.

apdst said:
I think the biggest question is: How much will it cost to do it? NASA didn't have to worry about overhead, a whole lot.
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Yes, that's the big question. Do you know the answer?
 
Jerry said:
How will the regulations be applied to this vehicle:
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The government doesn't have to worry about such things, because obviously making a profit isn't of any real concern to them.
 
apdst said:
The government doesn't have to worry about such things, because obviously making a profit isn't of any real concern to them.
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Boy ain't that the truth.
 
apdst said:
It ain't gonna be free!
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Reduced fuel consumption lowers demand, helps keep downward pressure on fuel prices. Direct savings from greater fuel economy. Indirect savings from lower pollution and the health care savings that result... these all factor into the cost.

No, it wont be free. That doesn't mean it wont be worth the cost.
 
Deuce said:
Reduced fuel consumption lowers demand, helps keep downward pressure on fuel prices. Direct savings from greater fuel economy. Indirect savings from lower pollution and the health care savings that result... these all factor into the cost.

No, it wont be free. That doesn't mean it wont be worth the cost.
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But...but...but...supply and demand don't effect fuel prices!

If you think that fewer emissions is going to lower healthcare costs and that is somehow going to have a positive effect on, anything, then you need get a grip on the real world.
 
apdst said:
But...but...but...supply and demand don't effect fuel prices!

If you think that fewer emissions is going to lower healthcare costs and that is somehow going to have a positive effect on, anything, then you need get a grip on the real world.
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The link between air pollution and all sorts of health issues is very clear.

Also, stop trying to paint me with ridiculous straw men. I've never said that supply and demand don't effect fuel prices and I'm not aware of anyone ever saying that.

Because it's stupid.
 
apdst said:
You realize that it takes the same amount of energy for a train to move X-tons of freight Y-miles, as a truck, right?

The trick math that they use to claim that a train can move 1 ton of freight 4 hundred-odd miles, is a load of ****.
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LOL! Thanks for your completely unsubstantiated opinion there anonymous internet guy! Sorry, I choose to believe the experts on the issue that have determined just as I quoted above, "For all movements, rail fuel efficiency is higher than truck fuel efficiency in terms of ton-miles per gallon. The ratio between rail and truck fuel efficiency indicates how much more fuel efficient rail is in comparison to trucks."
 
1Perry said:
2010 430 horse and 26 mpg highway. 1980 Corvette 180 HP and 20 mpg highway.
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Bad comparison. In 1980 the amount of efficiency of the engines was horrible and the weight difference of the two cars is huge. Today, the engines efficiency level is tapped out and the only way forward is to lower weight and/or horsepower. That is why they are looking for new technologies to try to gain access to greater ability for fuel economy. We will see what their efforts bring.

Not for those who want mileage. People don't buy a Prius for it's power.
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The Prius is a **** car that proves my point about hitting the wall. The only people that will buy the car are poor that have to save money. They aren't doing it because they don't care for power but because the power is out of their price range.
 
Henrin said:
Bad comparison. In 1980 the amount of efficiency of the engines was horrible and the weight difference of the two cars is huge.
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Please, start looking things up before running off about things you don't know.

1980 curb weight 3495. 2010 curb weight. 3333. We've made some improvement in weight, nothing huge but far be it from me to state that we shouldn't work on getting the weight of trucks down to improve mileage.


The Prius is a **** car that proves my point about hitting the wall. The only people that will buy the car are poor that have to save money. They aren't doing it because they don't care for power but because the power is out of their price range.
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Look, there is no need to reply. After this one I'll not be replying back.
 
1Perry said:
Please, start looking things up before running off about things you don't know.
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Start to give models so I actually have something to look up.

1980 curb weight 3495. 2010 curb weight. 3333. We've made some improvement in weight, nothing huge but far be it from me to state that we shouldn't work on getting the weight of trucks down to improve mileage.
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I have no idea where that comes from. I just saying that generally cars are far lighter so any comparison to cars of the early 1980's is bad.


Look, there is no need to reply. After this one I'll not be replying back.
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Oh..well never mind to the above.
 
Deuce said:
The link between air pollution and all sorts of health issues is very clear.

Also, stop trying to paint me with ridiculous straw men. I've never said that supply and demand don't effect fuel prices and I'm not aware of anyone ever saying that.

Because it's stupid.
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Ridiculous straw man? You libs always tell us drilling new wells to increase supply will not effect gas prices. As for trains replacing trucks theres a reason they can't, it's called JIT, just in time. It is how company's keep cost down by not having to warehouse and handle goods. They want stuff coming off the truck and going on the shelves or bolted on to whatever they are producing. You libs have absolutely no comprehension of what it takes to run a business. you are all theory, all pie in sky wouldn't it be swell if BS.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Ridiculous straw man? You libs always tell us drilling new wells to increase supply will not effect gas prices. As for trains replacing trucks theres a reason they can't, it's called JIT, just in time. It is how company's keep cost down by not having to warehouse and handle goods. They want stuff coming off the truck and going on the shelves or bolted on to whatever they are producing. You libs have absolutely no comprehension of what it takes to run a business. you are all theory, all pie in sky wouldn't it be swell if BS.
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The smaller more efficient local truck collects the goods from the city/town/area long-distance rail yard and delivers it JIT. How hard is that to work out?
 
Manc Skipper said:
The smaller more efficient local truck collects the goods from the city/town/area long-distance rail yard and delivers it JIT. How hard is that to work out?
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Right. Take a 100 lbs. crate and use an exclusive truck to deliver it from one city to another rather than using putting many tons on one tractor and trailer and running it from one city to another and then delivering. Do you really think that would be cost efficient?
 
Manc Skipper said:
The smaller more efficient local truck collects the goods from the city/town/area long-distance rail yard and delivers it JIT. How hard is that to work out?
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Company A calls company B and wants 5000 widgets to bolt onto their product in 5 days because they just got a long sought after order from a major retailer. Company A is 4000 miles from company B. Company B calls a trucking company that has a truck there in 30 minutes getting loaded with widgets which then makes a direct run to company A loading dock. Try that with a train. Then theres refer trucks which pick up fresh food from a farm in California Monday morning and unload it at a store in Florida Friday morning, try that with a train.
 
Henrin said:
Bad comparison. In 1980 the amount of efficiency of the engines was horrible and the weight difference of the two cars is huge. Today, the engines efficiency level is tapped out and the only way forward is to lower weight and/or horsepower. That is why they are looking for new technologies to try to gain access to greater ability for fuel economy. We will see what their efforts bring.
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I am not sure if you are saying cars today are heavier or cars from the 80s. To note, cars and trucks today are far heavier then cars from the 80s, the HP of the cars today is generally far higher as well
The Prius is a **** car that proves my point about hitting the wall. The only people that will buy the car are poor that have to save money. They aren't doing it because they don't care for power but because the power is out of their price range.
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The Prius is not a cheap car. In its base version it costs more then the base Camry. It costs alot more then the Yaris and Corolla. People are not buying the Prius because it is cheap, it is not. They buy it for the technology in the car and its performance ( fuel economy performance).


To compare certain cars

The 80s Chevy Caprice weight 3900 lbs and its most powerful engine had 150 hp

The 2012 Dodge Charger has a weight of 4160 lbs (depending on options of course) and its most powerful engine (not including the SRT8) has 370 hp

Cars and trucks today are more powerfull, safer, and heavier then cars from the 80's. They are also generally faster. They are not more fuel efficient in general (due to the extra weight and more power)
 
LesGovt said:
Right. Take a 100 lbs. crate and use an exclusive truck to deliver it from one city to another rather than using putting many tons on one tractor and trailer and running it from one city to another and then delivering. Do you really think that would be cost efficient?
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Read what I said. The crate wouldn't need to travel between cities it was delivered there by rail. And nobody would be so stupid as to do what you suggest in your extreme example.
 
Manc Skipper said:
The smaller more efficient local truck collects the goods from the city/town/area long-distance rail yard and delivers it JIT. How hard is that to work out?
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You'll have to have twice as many trucks on the road, to move the same amount of freight. Nothing will have been accomplished.
 
Manc Skipper said:
Read what I said. The crate wouldn't need to travel between cities it was delivered there by rail. And nobody would be so stupid as to do what you suggest in your extreme example.
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Sorry, but what you had said was confusing. I thought I understood it, but it looks like I did not.

Trains are available now and so are over-the-road LTL trucking. Why does LTL still exist? Why has UPS grown to be as big as it has? Why did FedEx get into the ground business in recent year? If JIT can be handled by railroads and it is more cost-efficient, wouldn't trucks be a thing of the past?

Off the subject, but let me give you an example of where trucks cannot even do the job. Back in 1980, downtime cost at a General Motors plant was something like $100k per minute. If they had a problem and needed something to keep the line going, they would not use rail, they would use same-day air freight.
 
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sawyerloggingon said:
Company A calls company B and wants 5000 widgets to bolt onto their product in 5 days because they just got a long sought after order from a major retailer. Company A is 4000 miles from company B. Company B calls a trucking company that has a truck there in 30 minutes getting loaded with widgets which then makes a direct run to company A loading dock. Try that with a train. Then theres refer trucks which pick up fresh food from a farm in California Monday morning and unload it at a store in Florida Friday morning, try that with a train.
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There are no railroads in the US between those destinations?
 
Manc Skipper said:
There are no railroads in the US between those destinations?
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The train system in the US declined when the trucking lobby got politicians to cut off funding for the train system and give it to the trucking industry.
 
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