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Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

Sgt Meowenstein

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A new poll by CBS News shows a majority of Americans - Democrat, Independent and Republican - prefer a combination of spending cuts and tax increases as part of a deal to raise the debt ceiling. SO, when is the GOP going to catch up?

Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

(CNN)-As the debt ceiling clock ticks down, a new poll indicates that more Americans favor a balanced approach to reaching a deal resolving the nation's budget deficit.
According to a CBS News Poll released Monday, 66 percent of Americans say an agreement to raise the amount of money the nation can borrow should include both spending cuts and tax increases.

More than half of Republicans say the agreement should be balanced and roughly seven out of ten Democrats and independents say the same. More tea party supporters also agree, since 53 percent say any deal should include both spending cuts and tax increases.
Republicans and adults who identify with the tea party are more likely than Democrats or independents to support a plan that only includes spending cuts. Almost four in 10 Republicans favor using spending cuts alone to reduce the deficit and 44 percent of tea party supporters agree. Twenty percent of Democrats would leave tax increases out of a debt ceiling deal and include cuts only; 28 percent of independents say the same.
And though the nation is divided on whether the debt ceiling should be raised at all, with 46 percent saying it should be raised and almost half-49 percent-saying it should not, more Americans favor an increase in the debt ceiling than one month ago. Almost a quarter of the country agreed the debt ceiling should be raised in June; that percentage increased by 22 percentage points in the new survey.
 
You ought to know this by now; CBS oversamples their polls with Dems.

From the poll :
unweighted weighted
Total Respondents 810
Total Republicans 214 193 (24%)
Total Democrats 272 282 (35%)
Total Independents 324 335 (41%)
 
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You ought to know this by now; CBS oversamples their polls with Dems.

From the poll :
unweighted weighted
Total Respondents 810
Total Republicans 214 193 (24%)
Total Democrats 272 282 (35%)
Total Independents 324 335 (41%)

Looks like they over sample with independents. :coffeepap
 
And dems both. Party affiliation is honestly weak with both parties right now.
 
And dems both. Party affiliation is honestly weak with both parties right now.

I have no doubt. While I don't put much stock in these polls, and Jon Stewart had a lot of fun this evening with the differing polls, I think any random poll would have difficulty having exact numbers of republicnas and democrats.

But let me ask, are you suggesting democrats are not responsible? I would argue that cutting spending and rasiing taxes is the responsible thing to do.
 
I think we differ on the proportions. Right now I think we should be cutting a great deal more than we are taxing because spending has risen so dramatically in the last decade. I do indeed hold both parties responsible.
 
I think we differ on the proportions. Right now I think we should be cutting a great deal more than we are taxing because spending has risen so dramatically in the last decade. I do indeed hold both parties responsible.

The devil is always in the details, but you seem reasonable. the scales don't have to be exactly even, and I think we could have an honest disagreement as to where the line is, but am I correct you would accept some form of rasing taxes? In conjunction with greater cuts?
 
A new poll by CBS News shows a majority of Americans - Democrat, Independent and Republican - prefer a combination of spending cuts and tax increases as part of a deal to raise the debt ceiling. SO, when is the GOP going to catch up?

Excellent question. I honestly believe they will not. They have trapped themselves in a corner with their base they can't figure a way out of, and think it is better to give the 2012 election a pass and try again in 2016. Their slew of bat **** crazy candidates seems to confirm this.
 
I think a lot of the recommendations from Simpson Bowles were reasonable and should have been followed. Our tax code is a mess. Straightening it out and lessening the impact of tax avoidance is a good stance.

However our current corporate tax is amongst the highest in the world, if we want to raise revenues we need to grow our GDP. We wont do that by continuing to tax corporations in a global economy. Its far too easy to shift your center of operations and grow elsewhere. Cuomo sees that on a state level in NY and I think Quinn in Illinois is seeing it very strongly with the current changes they made to state income tax, as far as Brown in California, I dunno. I mention these three states because they have tremendous operating budgets and are in the most trouble in terms of spending and unfunded liabilities (insurance, pensions and benefits down the road).

I bet we also disagree on amortization of capital as a "loophole" but its been there for a very long time, and capital investments do indeed depreciate.
 
There have been 19 other polls since January that all say the same thing:


19 Different Polls Show That Americans Support Tax Increases To Cut Deficit

I think they agree in principle, but I bet if pressed, each individual would give you a different answer on how much cutting and how much increased taxes they would like to see. I also can almost dead certain predict they dont think that their taxes should be increased. Thats part of the problem right now. An overwhelming number of citizens do not pay income tax at all, so its not their problem. IF they knew as a dead certaintly they would have to pay more, we might be seeing very different poll results.
 
I think a lot of the recommendations from Simpson Bowles were reasonable and should have been followed. Our tax code is a mess. Straightening it out and lessening the impact of tax avoidance is a good stance.

However our current corporate tax is amongst the highest in the world, if we want to raise revenues we need to grow our GDP. We wont do that by continuing to tax corporations in a global economy. Its far too easy to shift your center of operations and grow elsewhere. Cuomo sees that on a state level in NY and I think Quinn in Illinois is seeing it very strongly with the current changes they made to state income tax, as far as Brown in California, I dunno. I mention these three states because they have tremendous operating budgets and are in the most trouble in terms of spending and unfunded liabilities (insurance, pensions and benefits down the road).

I bet we also disagree on amortization of capital as a "loophole" but its been there for a very long time, and capital investments do indeed depreciate.

I don't think lessening taxes will grow GDP. I think that is my biggest disagreement. Short of next to no taxes at all, in the global market places, with cheap labor and other perks, no tax change will make us competitive. A friend of mind here at the school calls it the Mexicization of America, in which we bring workers here to the level of the worker in Mexico. He maintains that only that will ever bring corporations that choose to leave here back. Don't know if he's completely right, but I do believe taxes play a much smaller role in all this than many seem to think.

The American dream used to include retiring well. And business, as well as government did advance this illusion. Business in too many cases also proved unable to do this, for varying reasons. We may have to rethink this, change things, and the fight may well be difficult, but it shouldn't involve much of the demonization that goes on.

But, your post was a nice read, thanks.
 
I think they agree in principle, but I bet if pressed, each individual would give you a different answer on how much cutting and how much increased taxes they would like to see. I also can almost dead certain predict they dont think that their taxes should be increased. Thats part of the problem right now. An overwhelming number of citizens do not pay income tax at all, so its not their problem. IF they knew as a dead certaintly they would have to pay more, we might be seeing very different poll results.


Neither party is calling for a middle class tax increase. They have already suffered too much. It would be impractical and political suicide. Since 2009, 1 in 7 Americans live in poverty. While the rich's wealth has grown exceptionally during these hard times for the rest of the country due to the average $58,000 tax cut they still enjoy each year from the Bush Administration.
 
I believe this needs to be a compromise. You cannot significantly reduce that deficit without cutting domestic spending with a god damn meat cleaver, which will hurt the economy. We became the best country in the world through investment in science and technology and government spending on the military (I oppose military spending cuts more than 1-2 hundred billion) and we need to spend domestically.
 
Neither party is calling for a middle class tax increase. They have already suffered too much. It would be impractical and political suicide. Since 2009, 1 in 7 Americans live in poverty. While the rich's wealth has grown exceptionally during these hard times for the rest of the country due to the average $58,000 tax cut they still enjoy each year from the Bush Administration.

Thats exactly right. Its also exactly why tax increases gain so much traction. IF the lower middle class and poor had an income tax of any appreciable amount, calls for cuts would be all you would see.
 
I don't think lessening taxes will grow GDP. I think that is my biggest disagreement. Short of next to no taxes at all, in the global market places, with cheap labor and other perks, no tax change will make us competitive.

Tax and regulation stability. Agree. Uncertainty means no new hires, it encourages wait and see from the accounting depts.
 
Thats exactly right. Its also exactly why tax increases gain so much traction. IF the lower middle class and poor had an income tax of any appreciable amount, calls for cuts would be all you would see.

The poor already live below the poverty line and more and more of the lowere middle class are being forced into poverty. How do you tax someone that doesn't have the money to meet all his survival needs? And why would you when the rich receive an average $58,000 tax cut each year? That is more than the average American's wages for a year!
 
Im going to ask not to react but to think. What do you think happens to tax increases on the wealthy? Keep in mind, those you deem as wealthy are generally net producers in any given economy. They produce products and services and they then charge more for those prices and services and this in turn increases the CPI. What nobody told you was that trickle down works both directions. Tax increases increase goods and service costs. Period.

Government adds to costs in all kinds of different ways and directions. Get people to realize this and they will be a lot less anxious to raise taxes. At this point if government cannot pay its bills, its time to examine where the money is going and if it isnt 100% needed, maybe its time to get rid of it.

Before you say that income tax is only part of the tax burden, I agree and I know that poor and lower income households pay a large portion of their share through sales taxes and the like, I get that. But they dont see that. If they saw it coming directly out of their pocket at the end of each year, they would notice. Believe it.
 
The poor already live below the poverty line and more and more of the lowere middle class are being forced into poverty. How do you tax someone that doesn't have the money to meet all his survival needs? And why would you when the rich receive an average $58,000 tax cut each year? That is more than the average American's wages for a year!

50% of Americans are not below the poverty line, yet that is how many pay no federal income taxes.
 
For some reason the poll's pdf won't load for me. However, if it follows the path other polls have been going its correct...to a point.

The Majority of American's favor allowing some kind of tax increase. In general, polls have been coming out with about 20% wanting no tax increases at all and just under 10% wanting only tax increases. So you have about 70% in the juicy middle.

Here's the issue though of course...

The vast majority of support for the inclusion of taxes is in the middle where people want an equal use of tax hikes and spending cuts. You ask when the Republicans will get on board? The same question can be asked of the Democrats.

The Democrats are not suggesting an equal use of tax hikes or spending cuts. They are suggesting tax hikes that happen immediately, effect people immediately, go into their full effect on day one. They are also suggesting spending cuts that are stretched over more than a decade and are severely back loaded in regards to savings, making a guarantee those savings will even come tenuous at best.

That is not an equal approach of taxes and spending, that is an approach that is primarily focused on tax hikes that has spending cuts included in it. In every poll I’ve seen that approach combined with “tax only” has relatively the same support as the notion of doing JUST spending cuts.

So while you can point to the fact that the majority of Americans are in favor of some form of tax increase, what you can’t do honestly or truthfully is suggest that somehow the Democratic suggestion of what to do is anywhere closer to the middle or the majority of what America wants than the Republicans. They’re both sitting at near opposite ends, with the Democrats slightly farther away from their extreme end but at the same time having their end not be as large as the Republicans in terms of support.
 
I can see tax increases once the economy picks back up, but I think increasing anybody's obligation right now is a bad idea. At the same time, I think we should get rid of loopholes, simplify the tax code, and completely restructure the tax system...and we should do it now. Perhaps once that is done there would be no need for an "increase".
 
I can see tax increases once the economy picks back up, but I think increasing anybody's obligation right now is a bad idea. At the same time, I think we should get rid of loopholes, simplify the tax code, and completely restructure the tax system...and we should do it now. Perhaps once that is done there would be no need for an "increase".

Ah yes, the conservative argument. When we had a surplus, we had to cut taxes because the gov't had too much money. Now that we're in the midst of a crap economy - partly do to those tax cuts - we can't raise taxes because the economy is bad. So, when is it ok to raise taxes?
 
Dem's want to raise taxes on people making over 250K a year, then they call this a millionairs tax to cloud the truth.Fuzzy math anyone?

SO then you support raising taxes on those earning over 1 million? Great idea. Maybe you can convince the GOP to go for that.
 
For some reason the poll's pdf won't load for me. However, if it follows the path other polls have been going its correct...to a point.

The Majority of American's favor allowing some kind of tax increase. In general, polls have been coming out with about 20% wanting no tax increases at all and just under 10% wanting only tax increases. So you have about 70% in the juicy middle.

Here's the issue though of course...

The vast majority of support for the inclusion of taxes is in the middle where people want an equal use of tax hikes and spending cuts. You ask when the Republicans will get on board? The same question can be asked of the Democrats.

The Democrats are not suggesting an equal use of tax hikes or spending cuts. They are suggesting tax hikes that happen immediately, effect people immediately, go into their full effect on day one. They are also suggesting spending cuts that are stretched over more than a decade and are severely back loaded in regards to savings, making a guarantee those savings will even come tenuous at best.


That is not an equal approach of taxes and spending, that is an approach that is primarily focused on tax hikes that has spending cuts included in it. In every poll I’ve seen that approach combined with “tax only” has relatively the same support as the notion of doing JUST spending cuts.

So while you can point to the fact that the majority of Americans are in favor of some form of tax increase, what you can’t do honestly or truthfully is suggest that somehow the Democratic suggestion of what to do is anywhere closer to the middle or the majority of what America wants than the Republicans. They’re both sitting at near opposite ends, with the Democrats slightly farther away from their extreme end but at the same time having their end not be as large as the Republicans in terms of support.

Yes, I can honestly argue that the Democrats' position is much closer to the position of the middle. You acknowledge that a majority support both tax increases and spending cuts. That's what Democrats are offering. Republicans won't even consider tax increases. Republicans aren't even on the same page, not even in the same book as a majority of Americans.

To your other point, you're right, Democrats aren't arguing for an equal amount of tax increases and spending cuts. Obama has offered 3 dollars in spending cuts to 1 dollar in tax increases. Not even close to equal.

You'd think Republicans would snatch up that deal of the century in a heartbeat. But they can't because they've painted themselves into a corner with the Tea Party and Grover Norquist.
 
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