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Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

I reckon not.
 
Red herring. Illegality is not the subject.

Okay, so they did nothing illegal. In your mind, what has Koch done wrong with their Koch Industries? Please be specific as you can. Thanks.
 
Who said they did anything wrong? They inherited a company, made a sh*t load of money, and now they're using it to buy political influence and shape public policy to help them make even more money.
 
Silly side show? You think saving the country from economic disaster is silly? Wow!

The debt ceiling crisis was manufactured by the GOP when they threatened to hold the economy hostage for their ideology. You didn't know that? Wow!
 
You got a link for that? A real link, not Leftist nut-job conspiracy trufer/warmer website.

The Billionaire Koch Brothers’ War Against Obama : The New Yorker

their companies have benefitted from nearly a hundred million dollars in government contracts since 2000.

The Koch brothers are involved in the energy industry which is heavily subsidized by the govt. The same goes for the lumber and paper industries, which they are involved in. Their father made his money doing business with Stalin

7 Ways the Koch Bros. Benefit from Corporate Welfare | The New York Observer

Pickens: It

Even the Kochs admit that they take govt subsidies
Pickens went on to criticize Koch for accepting subsides for ethanol production. Koch Industries, as a refiner of oil, blends ethanol with gasoline it produces in order to meet federal mandates on ethanol usage. Even though Koch opposes subsidies for ethanol, Koch accepts the subsidies. A company newsletter explains: “Once a law is enacted, we are not going to place our company and our employees at a competitive disadvantage by not participating in programs that are available to our competitors.”

Koch makes money off the govt
http://www.fossil.energy.gov/news/techlines/2002/tl_spr_rik2002_koch.html
 
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I have no need to prove anything to you with your irrelevant and absurd questions. If you can't refute what I said, your nonsense questions are going to get you anywhere. Neither is pointing out a type

You are the person who said the following: "And the Kock bros. depended on inheritance and govt largesse to make their money. Again, not an example of adding value. More like stealing from the people." If Charles Koch added 40,000 employees and $50 billion in revenue, then he added value. If they received subsidies, how much and when? Were these "subsidies" the same that any other company or any other company who was in the energy field?

Are my questions silly? Really! Maybe, it would be best for you to prove your point. And, if you are going to make allegations against Koch, I think you should offer proof of what you are saying. Have you done that? If so, I would like to read it.

Since 1960, the value of the Standard & Poor's 500 grew 80-fold, assuming the reinvestment of dividends. During that same period, the value of Koch Industries grew more than 2,700-fold, using the same assumptions. The growth of Koch companies has been achieved both through acquisitions and through expansion and broadening of existing businesses.

Koch Industries, Inc

Wow! Charles took over in 1967. My guess he is greatly responsible for the growth. He has added much value to his company, to the arts, to hospitals, to his country, and to the city of Wichita, KS. Maybe, while you are at their website, you might want to read about the philanthropic work they do.

Under Charles Koch, Koch Industries now employs about 70,000 people and has $100 billion dollars in revenue and in 2006, under the leadership of Charles, they became the largest private company in the United States, per Forbes Magazine. I think that is quite an accomplishment.

I look forward to your evidence that my thinking is in error.
 
The Billionaire Koch Brothers’ War Against Obama : The New Yorker

The Koch brothers are involved in the energy industry which is heavily subsidized by the govt. The same goes for the lumber and paper industries, which they are involved in. Their father made his money doing business with Stalin

7 Ways the Koch Bros. Benefit from Corporate Welfare | The New York Observer

Pickens: It

Even the Kochs admit that they take govt subsidies

Koch makes money off the govt
DOE - Fossil Energy Techline: Koch Submits Winning Bid To Supply Additional Oil to Strategic Reserve

Assuming some of this is true and not hyped, what's your point? Koch has done nothing wrong, immoral, illegal, etc. You're throwing out the red-herring. If you do not like his company receiving subsidies [which may actually be expense deductions], I suggest that you go to Washington, DC, and tell them to stop it. Government is the problem here, no Koch.
 
Okay, so they did nothing illegal. In your mind, what has Koch done wrong with their Koch Industries? Please be specific as you can. Thanks.

Actually, they have acted illegally. I just pointed out that wasn't the issue I was talking about. My point is that they are the recipients of govt welfare

DOE - Fossil Energy Techline: Koch Submits Winning Bid To Supply Additional Oil to Strategic Reserve

Permafrost Friday: The Kochtopus in Alaska | AndrewHalcro.com
The Koch's own a few refineries in the United States including the Flint Hills Refinery in Fairbanks. In 2003, they paid $265 million in purchasing the refinery from the Williams Companies.

Less than three years later, Flint Hills began asking for relief from the Murkowski administration. In Februrary of 2006, Flint Hills sent a letter to the state asking for a change to their oil supply contract with the state so that payments owed wouldn't be required.

USAspending.gov
 
Who said they did anything wrong? They inherited a company, made a sh*t load of money, and now they're using it to buy political influence and shape public policy to help them make even more money.

And they accept billions in govt handouts
 
You are the person who said the following: "And the Kock bros. depended on inheritance and govt largesse to make their money. Again, not an example of adding value. More like stealing from the people." If Charles Koch added 40,000 employees and $50 billion in revenue, then he added value. If they received subsidies, how much and when? Were these "subsidies" the same that any other company or any other company who was in the energy field?

No, the govt with its' subsidies added the value.


Wow! Charles took over in 1967. My guess he is greatly responsible for the growth. He has added much value to his company, to the arts, to hospitals, to his country, and to the city of Wichita, KS. Maybe, while you are at their website, you might want to read about the philanthropic work they do.

Under Charles Koch, Koch Industries now employs about 70,000 people and has $100 billion dollars in revenue and in 2006, under the leadership of Charles, they became the largest private company in the United States, per Forbes Magazine. I think that is quite an accomplishment.

He did with govt handouts. He's a welfare queen
 
Assuming some of this is true and not hyped, what's your point? Koch has done nothing wrong, immoral, illegal, etc. You're throwing out the red-herring. If you do not like his company receiving subsidies [which may actually be expense deductions], I suggest that you go to Washington, DC, and tell them to stop it. Government is the problem here, no Koch.

I guess you think that helping Stalin was not immoral.

And the point is that the Kochs money is made with govt handouts
 
I guess you think that helping Stalin was not immoral.

And the point is that the Kochs money is made with govt handouts

Still no link for that?

Didn't realize the page turned over. My bad.
 
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Oh my! We need to throw the Koch Brothers in jail over this one. The U.S. Government purchased oil for the oil reserve and they purchased, at least part of it, from Koch Industries. OMG!!!!!!!!! I guess they should have purchased it from John Doe who is on welfare.

From the article: "Koch's offer was selected on the basis that its exchange ratio provided the best value to the government." NO! That should not happen. The government is always supposed to buy the worst value.

Let's put executives from every major company in the U.S. in jail as they all sell to the Federal Government. IBM, Dell, Apple, HP, - To jail now!

Nite Sangha!
 
The Billionaire Koch Brothers’ War Against Obama : The New Yorker

their companies have benefitted from nearly a hundred million dollars in government contracts since 2000.

So they got some government contracts? What does that prove? Somebody would have gotten it.

The Koch brothers are involved in the energy industry which is heavily subsidized by the govt. The same goes for the lumber and paper industries, which they are involved in. Their father made his money doing business with Stalin

7 Ways the Koch Bros. Benefit from Corporate Welfare | The New York Observer

Here's your link to how the Kochs got rich.

http://www.observer.com/2010/slides...ideshow_middle_of_article&utm_campaign=levine

Pickens: It

Even the Kochs admit that they take govt subsidies

If the government is stupid enough to give it to them, you can't blame them for taking it. Which, "subsidies", are those, BTW?



The government had to buy emergency oil from somebody. Is anyone that does business with the government evil, now?
 
I guess you think that helping Stalin was not immoral.

And the point is that the Kochs money is made with govt handouts

If his helping Stalin was anything like your government handouts, it is much ado about nothing.
 
Oh my! We need to throw the Koch Brothers in jail over this one. The U.S. Government purchased oil for the oil reserve and they purchased, at least part of it, from Koch Industries. OMG!!!!!!!!! I guess they should have purchased it from John Doe who is on welfare.

From the article: "Koch's offer was selected on the basis that its exchange ratio provided the best value to the government." NO! That should not happen. The government is always supposed to buy the worst value.

Let's put executives from every major company in the U.S. in jail as they all sell to the Federal Government. IBM, Dell, Apple, HP, - To jail now!

Nite Sangha!

Nice straw man. I guess that either you just can't understand that Koch makes money from govt handouts, or you think welfare queens earn their govt handouts
 
So they got some government contracts? What does that prove? Somebody would have gotten it.

It proves that they are welfare queens.

If the government is stupid enough to give it to them, you can't blame them for taking it. Which, "subsidies", are those, BTW?

But I can point out that those welfare queens at Koch Industries didn't earn the money. It came out of taxpayers pockets

The government had to buy emergency oil from somebody. Is anyone that does business with the government evil, now?

No, the govt did not have to buy oil from anyone.
 
If his helping Stalin was anything like your government handouts, it is much ado about nothing.

They are welfare queens, dependent on govt handouts, including the Stalinist govt of the USSR.

YOu have said that socialism is wrong, but now you seem to think it's OK
 
It proves that they are welfare queens.

Why? Because they sold a product to a customer and that customer happened to be the government? Who is the government supposed to buy stuff from, the stuff fairy?



But I can point out that those welfare queens at Koch Industries didn't earn the money. It came out of taxpayers pockets

Koch Industries had a product to sell. Yes, they earned the money.



No, the govt did not have to buy oil from anyone.

How do you figger that?
 
If his helping Stalin was anything like your government handouts, it is much ado about nothing.

Gee, first you denied that they made money off the govt. Now that I pwned you by providing proof you say "it is much ado about nothing".
 
Why? Because they sold a product to a customer and that customer happened to be the government? Who is the government supposed to buy stuff from, the stuff fairy?

The govt doesn't have to buy oil for the strategic reserve, and that was only one example of the welfare queen Koch brothers govt handouts. I guess you just can't refute the other examples





How do you figger that?

Because they don't
 
The govt doesn't have to buy oil for the strategic reserve, and that was only one example of the welfare queen Koch brothers govt handouts. I guess you just can't refute the other examples







Because they don't

What are they going to do, confiscate the oil?
 
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