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Obama Officially Threatens to Veto "Cut, Cap, Balance"

Swizz said:
So in other words, your excuse is that people don't like Republicans anyway and prefer Obama + Democrats in general, so these numbers are no surprise?

I'll take it. But that's hardly a rock solid defense.
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What? Did you read what I even typed?

My analysis of the poll is as such...

The Democrat's in congress's support is within a small percent variation from the total amount of the population that are Democrats, which makes sense since the Democrats have been generally consistent within their party on what to do with this. This is backed up in part due to the relatively mild (only 30%) number of Democrats that disapproved of their congressional representitives.

The Republicans in congress's support is a fair bit lower than their total amount in the population, which also makes sense because the Republicans are largely split within their party on what to do with regards to raising the debt limit or not so its more likely that members of their own base will be unhappy. This is backed up in part due to the rather high (Over 50%) number of Republicans disapproving of the Republicans in Congress.

The President having the largest amount of support also is not that surprising since its a long believed trend within political science that an individual congressman, senator, or President is likely to have a better approval rating than an entire body of congress because of human nature to be more understanding of "their guy" over a group where they can convince themselves others are at fault. This is why even when Bush was having horrendous, monumental negatives as President he still was far higher than congress's approval.

If the Republicans, despite the split in the base, had a 40 to 50% approval rating I would've said that would be shocking or telling. If the Democrats had a 20% or below rating I would've said that was telling. If either party had half of their base disapproving of them and yet had totals about on par with their total percentage of people in the population, I would've said that would be a surprise (would've shown significant independent pickup). Had the President been lower than either house of congress, that would've been surprising. If Obama had been over 50% approval, I would've been mildly surprised.

However...all three having sub 50% approval ratings, with Republicans recording the lowest and Obama recording the highest? No, that's what I would've predicted had you told me what the poll would be looking at in the first place. Its what makes sense from a political science perspective when looking at the entire landscape.
 
Swizz said:
You guys don't realize he's actually winning this battle do you? By a lot.

Obama approval on debt ceiling issue: 43%
GOP approval: 21%

The GOP have turned into stubborn reactionary ideologues with no interest in compromise since Obama entered office. Voters are starting to realize it.
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Obama was in the mid 50's before this debate started. Senate approval has been in the gutter for years.
 
1Perry said:
Obama was in the mid 50's before this debate started. Senate approval has been in the gutter for years.
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This isn't about his general approval rating, it's about his approval on the issue of the debt ceiling.
 
Wiseone said:
He's being a Constitutional purist, exactly what I thought you wanted him to be.
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Obama wipes his ass with the Constitution.......please come back from Imaginationland.......
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TheDemSocialist said:
Oh yes its all a "lie"? How could i be so stupid?!?:roll
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....because your a Socialist who votes Democrat.......a culmination of stupid.

: Just like its a lie Obama passed the Bush tax cuts, just like its a lie that he pussed out on the public option for health care? Your head has to be really far up you know what doesnt it Badmutha?
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.....because The Kenyan Tyrant wanted the Bush Tax Cuts and didnt want a Public Option?.......you have to be high on MarijObama or Hopium.
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Moderator's Warning:
Thread bans have been issued and further action will be taken if others decide they want to continue to make personal attacks
 
I am new here, but I find a mod banning posters in a discussion they are participating in to be a gross misuse of power.
 
Taylor said:
Nobama strikes again.

No, I don't want spending capped...
No, I don't want to cut anything meaningful, and
No, I don't want to balance the budget!

And you're not touching my trains either!
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And he tells everybody to COMPROMISE and forget about politics and their views.
 
Cut, Cap and Balance is a joke. Nobody on either side of the aisle is under any delusions of it passing into law and they never were. It was never intended as an actual policy, just a political soapbox for them to get up on. It would, clearly, break the US down to third world status in a matter of a decade or less. Every economist, even very conservative ones, is saying just that. The Republicans in the House know that. That's why they picked this approach- because they knew it was far too crazy to actually pass. It's a convenient way for them to get some press for being strongly against spending without actually having to cut spending right before an election.
 
The Rev Kros said:
I am new here, but I find a mod banning posters in a discussion they are participating in to be a gross misuse of power.
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Personal attacks, baiting, or flaming other users are all actions which are clearly against the rules. I would read them if I were you. I believe there's something in there about what you just did....
 
teamosil said:
Cut, Cap and Balance is a joke. Nobody on either side of the aisle is under any delusions of it passing into law and they never were. It was never intended as an actual policy, just a political soapbox for them to get up on. It would, clearly, break the US down to third world status in a matter of a decade or less. Every economist, even very conservative ones, is saying just that. The Republicans in the House know that. That's why they picked this approach- because they knew it was far too crazy to actually pass. It's a convenient way for them to get some press for being strongly against spending without actually having to cut spending right before an election.
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Okay, I did some googling, and can't find anything to back up that statement. I found a few opinion articles in opposition to the plan, but those are relying on the same old fear tactics ("it will hurt seniors and poor children") without providing any evidence, estimates, or statistics to back up the claim. In fact, the plan itself does not touch Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security at all.
 
Zyphlin said:
What? Did you read what I even typed?

My analysis of the poll is as such...

The Democrat's in congress's support is within a small percent variation from the total amount of the population that are Democrats, which makes sense since the Democrats have been generally consistent within their party on what to do with this. This is backed up in part due to the relatively mild (only 30%) number of Democrats that disapproved of their congressional representitives.

The Republicans in congress's support is a fair bit lower than their total amount in the population, which also makes sense because the Republicans are largely split within their party on what to do with regards to raising the debt limit or not so its more likely that members of their own base will be unhappy. This is backed up in part due to the rather high (Over 50%) number of Republicans disapproving of the Republicans in Congress.

The President having the largest amount of support also is not that surprising since its a long believed trend within political science that an individual congressman, senator, or President is likely to have a better approval rating than an entire body of congress because of human nature to be more understanding of "their guy" over a group where they can convince themselves others are at fault. This is why even when Bush was having horrendous, monumental negatives as President he still was far higher than congress's approval.

If the Republicans, despite the split in the base, had a 40 to 50% approval rating I would've said that would be shocking or telling. If the Democrats had a 20% or below rating I would've said that was telling. If either party had half of their base disapproving of them and yet had totals about on par with their total percentage of people in the population, I would've said that would be a surprise (would've shown significant independent pickup). Had the President been lower than either house of congress, that would've been surprising. If Obama had been over 50% approval, I would've been mildly surprised.

However...all three having sub 50% approval ratings, with Republicans recording the lowest and Obama recording the highest? No, that's what I would've predicted had you told me what the poll would be looking at in the first place. Its what makes sense from a political science perspective when looking at the entire landscape.
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Approval ratings, in general or on the issue, don't really matter in any case, as America's disenchantment with Washington politics inclines most people toward negativity regardless of any other factor.

The most important thing is whether or not Americans support raising taxes or not.
 
tessaesque said:
Okay, I did some googling, and can't find anything to back up that statement. I found a few opinion articles in opposition to the plan, but those are relying on the same old fear tactics ("it will hurt seniors and poor children") without providing any evidence, estimates, or statistics to back up the claim. In fact, the plan itself does not touch Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security at all.
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One of the main problems is that currently our government (like every first world government) counteracts fluctuations in the economy. When the economy booms, taxes automatically go up (because people's incomes go up) and spending goes down (people come off welfare and food stamps, means tested stuff drops off, etc). Then when the economy is in a slump, taxes automatically go down and spending automatically goes up. It is basically a way to move money from the peaks to the valleys, which stabilizes the economy.

It is also a problem to cap spending at such a low percentage of GDP. No first world country spends that little on maintaining it's societal foundations. We're talking about a lot of people who today would turn into productive taxpaying workers being unable to get out of poverty, falling even further in education, senior citizens having to work much longer which takes up jobs, etc.

Economists are almost universally against the idea. For example, here is a letter signed by six nobel prize winning economists expressing strong opposition to it- Press Release: Nobel Laureates and Leading Economists Oppose Constitutional Balanced Budget Amendment — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

The statement that the plan itself doesn't touch social security or medicare is misleading. It requires cuts so massive, and forbids the raising of revenues or closing of tax loopholes, that it would be impossible not to make huge cuts to social security and medicaid. Also, it is especially problematic for social security. Social security has over $2 trillion in its trust. The projections are that it will burn that down over the next 35 years or so. The cut, cap and balance thing would actually prevent social security from dipping into its own trust because that would be considered a deficit. Obviously they didn't mean to do that, but it's one of many major oversights in the bill. Honestly, it isn't the kind of policy anybody actually intends to become law, it's the sort of bill designed to grab headlines and appear on campaign posters, but never pass. Which isn't so odd. A huge percentage of bills proposed by either party fall in that category. But to be doing that with an issue this important with a clock this short, that's not cool.
 
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Badmutha said:
....because your a Socialist who votes Democrat.......a culmination of stupid.
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Right you call me "stupid"... Right.. Good one! Coming from the guy who does not know the basics of the English language. After every few words it is not correct to but multiple periods. Only one is necessary after each sentence.


.....because The Kenyan Tyrant wanted the Bush Tax Cuts and didnt want a Public Option?.......you have to be high on MarijObama or Hopium.
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He obviously didnt want it after he took office. Notice how he dropped both of those promises after lobbyists got to him..
 
ThinktownUSA said:
It's not that people blame GOP more than Obama. It's because GOP voters are disgusted with EVERYONE in DC allowing this fiasco to linger, including Republicans. Republicans caving to Obama has voters very critical of their party. However, Obama supports support him no matter what; i.e. economy, unemployment, fraudulent birth certificate, insane spending, endless golf, billion dollar vacations, etc.
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HAHAHAHAHA Nice try. Actually, no it wasn't a nice try. Rather pathetic, actually. Polls show that a majority of AMERICANS, not just Democrats, support Obama on this issue. And what's with your little birth certificate jab? You're kidding, right? Fraudulent birth certificate? Care to prove that, champ, or are you just running off at the mouth? Obviously, you're a desperate little troll. You need to catch up. Birthers got smacked down big time by Obama. If you want to talk about birth certificates, go to the conspiracy theory section.
 
Badmutha said:
Obama wipes his ass with the Constitution.......please come back from Imaginationland.......
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Badmutha shoots and fails with another deflecting jab that has nothing to do with the discussion. Stay tuned for more.....after his ban gets lifted.
 
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Swizz said:
You guys don't realize he's actually winning this battle do you? By a lot.

Obama approval on debt ceiling issue: 43%
GOP approval: 21%

The GOP have turned into stubborn reactionary ideologues with no interest in compromise since Obama entered office. Voters are starting to realize it.
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And why the hell shoud they compromise? The GOP and the American people got burned by Democrats in 1982 and 1990 when they tried this bait and switch before.
 
Bassman said:
And why the hell shoud they compromise? The GOP and the American people got burned by Democrats in 1982 and 1990 when they tried this bait and switch before.
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Let's see now. Last good economy was during the Clinton years, but he was getting a minor vacuum. Let's do more of GWSnotforBrains with lower taxes for the rich and wars on the credit card and Gee, We sure need more Military Offense spending. It's only over 700 billion dollars. Do we wonder what rathole the money went down? Repubs, military, energy, banksters, all the same people.
 
DaveFagan said:
Let's see now. Last good economy was during the Clinton years, but he was getting a minor vacuum. Let's do more of GWSnotforBrains with lower taxes for the rich and wars on the credit card and Gee, We sure need more Military Offense spending. It's only over 700 billion dollars. Do we wonder what rathole the money went down? Repubs, military, energy, banksters, all the same people.
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So you would much rather hike taxes and spending on useles social welfare programs that keep people dependent on government?? Sorry, but that dog doesn't hunt. And it kills any idea of self-reliance.
 
Bassman said:
And why the hell shoud they compromise? The GOP and the American people got burned by Democrats in 1982 and 1990 when they tried this bait and switch before.
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Because compromising is what adults do. Refusing to compromise is what petulant children do. I like to hope that our elected officials are the former, but over the past few weeks I've been proven wrong.
 
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