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Republicans are acting like vandals

OpportunityCost said:
Ya know...I keep hearing this bull**** $2 trillion in cuts. Its over 10 years. Its $200billion. Im also willing to bet that those numbers can be raised or lowered at congressional whim.

We need to cut baseline budgets. Dems dont want that. We need to cut discretionary spending. Dems dont want that. We need to stop talking about rate of growth as thought its a cut. A CUT is cutting it from this years budget. Dems dont want that either. After all they just got through increasing the baseline budget for two years, cutting it back by 3% then blaming the GOP seems to be the gameplan. Class warfare with shifty accounting, such leadership.

Keep touting that $10 trillion, its smoke and mirrors and if you really thought about it, you'd know that.
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We need to stop all the wars in the Mid East and Africa. We can no longer afford them. They must end. We have spent enough money in Afghanistan to make every people in the country a millionaire. We must stop the wars and stop the occupation. Why have you not mentioned that?
 
Badmutha said:
And you think that tax increases are going to magically raise revenues huh? Raising taxes right now could very well end up causing a decline in revenues.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-partisan-politics-and-political-platforms/103350-why-did-tax-revenue-increase-after-bush-reagan-and-jfk-tax-cuts.html

Spending cuts and tax cuts will solve our economic ills........




They cant cut a Cowboy Poetry Contest Randel..........for the love of your not yet bankrup--but close--grandchildren's grandchildren..........please realize the Democrat Party is never....ever......ever going to deliver the significant cuts you and every other American is looking for.......because Democrats have never made a significant cut to anything in this country's history......
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typical, you can't see past the end of your nose, other than to bash democrats, what do you have to offer? you want to pretend that repubs are totally innocent in this budget mess, you want to keep your head buried in the sand, go for it..this will take both sides to accomplish anything, and we need to put the partisian bs to bed. we have work to do.
 
BDBoop said:
Seriously? I'm sorry. I do appreciate you taking the time to post. But I get tired of posting over and over and over again that the democrats already did the "meet you halfway" bit. I don't want to go dig up the URL's and quotes again. The information is out there. Hell, Australia has it. They know that the democrats offered deep cuts, and got nothing in return but the republicans walking out on the talks.
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I do not think there is any reliable site which would show 2 trillion of cuts coming from democrats that the other side would realistically agree to. Also, 2 trillion over 10 years is a joke, we will create new debt to the tune of 1.6 trillion just in the fiscal year just ending.

I guess that is the big debate for 2012. Economists like Paul Krugman think we need a huge stimulus and the debt means little. Others look at the debt burden we are putting on the next generation and cringe. What happens when the gravy train ends, look at the mess Greece is in. They will make cuts equal to about 21% of their GDP. Not that they want want to, but the world took away their piggy bank. Think what happens here if we have a similar problem. I don't think it is moral to leave my child burdened with a bunch of debt just to keep employment artifically up for a couple of years.
 
Someone tell the australians they have it all wrong...its just the far right teaparty standing by their principles...
 
randel said:
and they should make cuts , BUT, they should expect, and WE AS A COUNTRY, AS A WHOLE, should expect the republicans to get with the game plan and quit screwing around and pretending that tax increases are not needed.. ...i want some significant money to be chopped from this budget, i also want some tax increases, and those should be targeted to the top earners in this country...the repubs are hell bent on protecting their biggest contributors, and hell bent on screwing over everyone else...to ever balance this budget will require considerable give on both sides, or it wont happen..if repubs want significant cuts, they should expect to have support some tax increases.... a deal like that gives both sides political cover...the repubs are out of their damn minds if they think they are going to get something without giving something. contrary to the kool-aid you have been drinking/snorting/injecting, our ledger has two sides, we need cuts and increased revenue, you squeeze this budget problem from both ends and you get it to meet in the middle. if all you have to offer for this is blah blah blah liberal blah blah blah democrat, then move on, i'm not interested in hearing it from you....
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The GoP has been bending on spending for so long that they met with a primary revolution to get them to pay attention to the problem again. They had been giving in for so long on spending that when Democrats got full control they went crazy on entitlement growth and its now the majority of the budget and scheduled to increase by drastic amounts over the next few years.

How do you cut a debt of $14trillion with $200billion in cuts a year? Thats right, you dont. Keep in mind from PBrauers chart in another thread that entitlements are in excess of 60% of the budget and will keep growing due to demographics. They not only need cuts they need deep ones to make any impact.

Revenue is what it is, keep spending within those numbers and things are peachy, the problem is that the finances have been kicked down the road too often and bailouts didnt help one bit, they made it worse.

If you were on the other side of the table with Democrats and they said they wont cut this year but they will cut $200billion each of the next 10 years, could you honestly say you believed they would? I couldnt.
 
randel said:
typical, you can't see past the end of your nose, other than to bash democrats, what do you have to offer? you want to pretend that repubs are totally innocent in this budget mess, you want to keep your head buried in the sand, go for it..this will take both sides to accomplish anything, and we need to put the partisian bs to bed. we have work to do.
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ANY PIECE OF DEMOCRAT LEGISLATION IN US HISTORY........That cut spending?

Randel there is a reason every liberal utopia throughout the world is BANKRUPT..........if you didnt have so much sand in your eye........you could see it.
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Badmutha said:
ANY PIECE OF DEMOCRAT LEGISLATION IN US HISTORY........That cut spending?

Randel there is a reason every liberal utopia throughout the world is BANKRUPT..........if you didnt have so much sand in your eye........you could see it.
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like i said, if all you have to offer is blah blah blah, liberal, blah blah blah, then move on, i'm not interested in hearing it.
 
randel said:
like i said, if all you have to offer is blah blah blah, liberal, blah blah blah, then move on, i'm not interested in hearing it.
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It appears blah blah blah is all your offering........

.......come to grip with the fact that Democrats cant bring themselves to cut a cowboy poetry contest.....and despite all your love for their "intentions"........they will surely bankrupt this country. We can't tax our way out........
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Badmutha said:
It appears blah blah blah is all your offering........

.......come to grip with the fact that Democrats cant bring themselves to cut a cowboy poetry contest.....and despite all your love for their "intentions"........they will surely bankrupt this country. We can't tax our way out........
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blah blah blah, conservative talking points, no original thoughts, blah blah blah, ignore that republicans are just as responsible for problem..blah blah blah, more talking points, bring up liberals, blah blah blah, blame problem on democrats, blah blah blah, repeat talking points, blah blah blah, no original thoughts present, return to talking point and programming received from limbaugh, hannity, levin, beck...blah blah blah, drink more kool aid, blah blah blah....wash, rinse, repeat
 
randel said:
blah blah blah, conservative talking points, no original thoughts, blah blah blah, ignore that republicans are just as responsible for problem..blah blah blah, more talking points, bring up liberals, blah blah blah, blame problem on democrats, blah blah blah, repeat talking points, blah blah blah, no original thoughts present, return to talking point and programming received from limbaugh, hannity, levin, beck...blah blah blah, drink more kool aid, blah blah blah....wash, rinse, repeat
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A 4 trillion dollar budget....almost a 2 trillion dollar budget deficit.........

..........how much would you like to see cut Randel?
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...........your beloved party would call you an extremist.........
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Badmutha said:
A 4 trillion dollar budget....almost a 2 trillion dollar budget deficit.........

..........how much would you like to see cut Randel?
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...........your beloved party would call you an extremist.........
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blah blah blah, extremist, blah blah blah.....i'd roll this budget back to 2009 levels to start, roughly 3.1trillion in spending, (compared to around 3.8 trill for this year), and i'd be rid of the bush tax cuts, and start closing all the loopholes in the tax code. cut 700 bill in spending, raise 500-700 billion in revenue, and keep cutting i 3% across the board increments from that 2009 budget until budget is balanced...see , i want cuts, i understand that they will hurt, but i'm also smart enough to realize we need to increase revenue, and unlike many here, i'm willing to hold BOTH PARTYS RESPONSIBLE, AS BOTH MADE THE MESS..how about you chief? more vitriol, more talking points, more blaming 'liberals', 'cause that is what i'm expecting.
 
You do realize thats not anywhere on the table in the Senate right now, correct? I keep hearing the highly touted $2trillion but its phased and subject to being gamed. Id say 2009 is still a HUGE increase over previous years and 2004 is a touch more feasible with current revenues. But this is congress we are talking about, reality isnt in their agenda.
 
OpportunityCost said:
You do realize thats not anywhere on the table in the Senate right now, correct? I keep hearing the highly touted $2trillion but its phased and subject to being gamed. Id say 2009 is still a HUGE increase over previous years and 2004 is a touch more feasible with current revenues. But this is congress we are talking about, reality isnt in their agenda.
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as much as i'd like to see it happen, i'm a realist, and i know that they won't solve the budget problems in one fell swoop...i'm looking for compromise on both sides..yes, i agree with conservatives, spending does need to be cut, what i don't agree with is the total gutting of all social programs, while not touching the revenue side of things at all, tax loopholes need to be cut, some tax increases are inevitable if we wish to ever get a grasp on the debt/deficit....i also believe that the defense budget can be trimmed without damaging our ability to defend ourselves, and fight terrorism...i supported iraq and afghanistan, and as far as iraq goes, i'm of the mind that they need to stand on their own two feet, and we should bring the majority of our troops home from there. as far as 2009 goes, i would look at it as a starting point, and freeze at that level, and start with mandatory 3% a year across the board cuts until we balance, if congress/the Potus can't agree on a minimum 3% cuts together.
 
Badmutha said:
It appears blah blah blah is all your offering........

.......come to grip with the fact that Democrats cant bring themselves to cut a cowboy poetry contest.....and despite all your love for their "intentions"........they will surely bankrupt this country. We can't tax our way out........
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That would be Unionista propaganda Blah blah blah
 
Badmutha said:
No.....its but a small step in the journey of 14,000,000,000,000.00 miles.......and Democrats find themselves unable to take baby step numero uno.

.....if Democrats cant bring themselves to cut Cowboy Poetry Contests.....they sure as hell arent going to touch the big budget items. (D)estined for Bankruptcy........
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People that will not entertain revenue enhancements (direct or indirect tax increases) are not serious about deficit reduction. This whole thing is a shallow tea-party ruse to cut social programs, nothing more. (Why let a good crisis go to waste). Get serious about using all the tools to fix the budget and the economy, then you can be taken seriously in general.
 
upsideguy said:
People that will not entertain revenue enhancements (direct or indirect tax increases) are not serious about deficit reduction. This whole thing is a shallow tea-party ruse to cut social programs, nothing more. (Why let a good crisis go to waste). Get serious about using all the tools to fix the budget and the economy, then you can be taken seriously in general.
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People that are actually entertaining raising taxes in this economy are seriously trying to make this Depression Great...............and our debt and deficit an even bigger problem.
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apdst said:
I guess that's why they denied Juan Williams his 1st Amendment rights?
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Nowhere in the First Amendment does it say that you have the right to work for NPR. It prevents CONGRESS from passing a law abridging free speech. So unless Congress passed a law saying that Juan Williams couldn't say what he wants on Fox, no First Amendment rights were denied.

As much as you guys talk about The Constitution, you'd think most of you read it. Yet you miss the most basic points.
 
rocket88 said:
Nowhere in the First Amendment does it say that you have the right to work for NPR. It prevents CONGRESS from passing a law abridging free speech. So unless Congress passed a law saying that Juan Williams couldn't say what he wants on Fox, no First Amendment rights were denied.

As much as you guys talk about The Constitution, you'd think most of you read it. Yet you miss the most basic points.
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As long as NPR receives public funds, it cannot violate a person's 1st Amendment rights.

it appears that you, sir, should read the Constitution.
 
Badmutha said:
People that are actually entertaining raising taxes in this economy are seriously trying to make this Depression Great...............and our debt and deficit an even bigger problem.
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Cutting expenditures is by far, far more devastating to a recovery than a tax increase, particularly if the tax increase is focused on the few that are actually doing well in the soft economy.
 
Badmutha said:
People that are actually entertaining raising taxes in this economy are seriously trying to make this Depression Great...............and our debt and deficit an even bigger problem.
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No, the silly discussion is about cutting expenditures in a soft economy. Cutting expenditures is by far, far more devastating to a recovery than a tax increase, particularly if the tax increase is focused on the few that are actually doing well in the soft economy. Expenditures go directly into the economy, and have a multiplying effect; tax cuts only affect the economy as a hypothetical and generally have an impact coefficient of much less than 1.0
 
randel said:
and they would be right....tax increases have to be on the table, as well as spending cuts....
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You can't trust a Democrat to ever ever ever ever vote for a spending cut. And most of the time they aren't real cuts, but only cuts in a planned increase. So I don't blame the Republicans for being hesitant. Promised cuts are notorious for not happening. It happened under Reagan and Bush 41.
 
apdst said:
As long as NPR receives public funds, it cannot violate a person's 1st Amendment rights.

it appears that you, sir, should read the Constitution.
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The constitution does not say that, no.

American said:
You can't trust a Democrat to ever ever ever ever vote for a spending cut. And most of the time they aren't real cuts, but only cuts in a planned increase. So I don't blame the Republicans for being hesitant. Promised cuts are notorious for not happening. It happened under Reagan and Bush 41.
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It's really funny that people still think the Republicans are any different.
 
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upsideguy said:
No, the silly discussion is about cutting expenditures in a soft economy. Cutting expenditures is by far, far more devastating to a recovery than a tax increase,
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One would think that after Obama spending more money than Gawd and all previous administrations combined........which only made the economy worse........not a sane soul would still believe in the fairytale that government spending somehow benefits an economy. You are proof there are exceptions.........

particularly if the tax increase is focused on the few that are actually doing well in the soft economy.
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Bring down the handful that are doing well........brilliant...........

Expenditures go directly into the economy, and have a multiplying effect;
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Only after they are first REMOVED from the economy...........Government doesnt have money........they only have what they steal.

tax cuts only affect the economy as a hypothetical and generally have an impact coefficient of much less than 1.0
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Which would be akin to saying tax increases only affect the economy as a hypothetical.........we could raise tax rates on everybody to 90% and it wouldnt hurt the economy one bit.......in your imagination.
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I sincerely wish I could be bipartisan on this and write a column saying that blame lies on both sides. But I can't. The debt itself is bipartisan, built up over many years, but only the Democrats are taking responsibility for paying it back. Today's Republican Party in the US is so extreme, so doctrinaire and so reckless it stands alone on this question.
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This is either abject ignorance or an outright lie.
You decide.
 
upsideguy said:
People that will not entertain revenue enhancements (direct or indirect tax increases) are not serious about deficit reduction. This whole thing is a shallow tea-party ruse to cut social programs, nothing more. (Why let a good crisis go to waste). Get serious about using all the tools to fix the budget and the economy, then you can be taken seriously in general.
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Ill tell you what, why dont you find out what real relation there is between revenue and GDP. As GDP growth declines, so does revenue---no matter how hard you tax people, because its a disincentive to effort. When the economy is down, raising taxes has a real possibility of making the recovery worse or even pushing the economy into a depression.

The 2009 budget is somewhere in the 20s in percentages of GDP and revenues are rarely over 17% of GDP. That should tell everyone cuts have got to happen.

For Randel and Upsideguy, be specific exactly which "loopholes" you want to cut. Im curious as to what you think is bad or greedy tax code. I bet you can find more wasetful spending than you can bad tax code, but if you want to find the most tax loopholes, I suggest you start with GE's tax form, their chummy relationship with Obama seems to coincide with a huge drop in their tax expense. (Btw thats a hint that a lot of tax cuts are in the green industry sector)
 
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